Posts by eyeslice

17

Are JWs loosing it?

by eyeslice in

personally, i am more of a lurker than a poster, which i guess is because i am still very much on the fringes of the organization.

although many here have become bitter due to their experiences in the truth, i am sure that many of us look back on some really great times we had.

there was a time when there was a great feeling of optimism, new families (not just the odd individual here and there) were studying and coming along.

eyeslice

Personally, I am more of a lurker than a poster, which I guess is because I am still very much on the fringes of the organization.

Although many here have become bitter due to their experiences in the truth, I am sure that many of us look back on some really great times we had. There was a time when there was a great feeling of optimism, new families (not just the odd individual here and there) were studying and coming along. Families in the truth had good times together socially as well.

Anyway, looking round our hall the other day, I was saddened by the thought that we are just loosing it. All the families in our congregation have been life long JWs. There is no new blood, no new enthusiasm, and no zeal any more. The brothers and sisters seem burdened down. There appears to be no social life any more, paranoid elders seem to have clamped down on most things, and as a result many youngsters seem to simply drift away.

Now I know its not just me, as I hear the odd comment now and again, particularly from older ones, such as, I am not so sure that I wont die before this system ends and I used to really love going to the meetings but now I sometimes I feel it so hard to drag myself out. And, these comments are not from the spiritually weak, but from the so-called pillars in the congregation.

My view is that no single issue, the UN scandal, Paedophilia issues, etc., will drive the masses out of the organization, it is simply dying from within.

5

JW's and Charity Work

by Scarlet in

jw
friends

last night my husband and i went shopping to give some toys to the local toy drive.

i have donated either toys, food, or blankets during the holiday season since i left being a dub.

i have always had the desire to give to charties and people in need since i was young.

eyeslice

Lack of practical charity worries me too.

I have for a while given to so-called Christian Charities, especially one dedicated to helping blindness in 3rd world countries. I know I have had some strange looks when brothers have been to my house and seen some of their literature lying around.

But my view is that it being blind can be no fun for anyone, so it must be hell if you are blind and in poverty and without hope.

I know that Jesus wouldnt be aggrieved at such charity, strange that so-called Christians have their consciences offended if they think that someone is giving to Babylon the Great.

4

More Statistics - Even more to die at Armageddon!

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

it comes up time and again in the wts literature and meetings just how jehovah is patient and loving by allowing this system to go on, thus allowing more people to be saved.. but, the figures dont add up.. i know that witnesses dont really believe that baptism is being born again, but on the other hand, it is implied that those who are not baptized are in danger at armageddon.

this was brought out at this years dc, where young ones were urged to "seriously consider getting baptized".. .

i am aware that figures can be made to say anything but in the table below, i have attempted to look at the difference between physical births and "spiritual" births, i.e.

eyeslice

It comes up time and again in the WTs literature and meetings just how Jehovah is patient and loving by allowing this system to go on, thus allowing more people to be saved. But, the figures dont add up. I know that Witnesses dont really believe that baptism is being born again, but on the other hand, it is implied that those who are not baptized are in danger at Armageddon. This was brought out at this years DC, where young ones were urged to "seriously consider getting baptized". I am aware that figures can be made to say anything but in the table below, I have attempted to look at the difference between physical births and "spiritual" births, i.e. those being baptized. I got the birth rates from the web and the population and baptism figures from the Jan 15 th 2003 Watchtower. So, if Armageddon came tomorrow, we would have had in 2002, in just 6 countries, over 30 million infants of less than one year been born for destruction! By comparison, Herods murder of little children at Christs birth pales into insignificance.
	Birth Rate	Population (millions)	Total Physical Births	Total Baptized	Difference
UK	11.34	55.88	633,679	2,504	631,175
USA	14.10	282.94	3,989,454	29,816	3,959,638
Australia	12.71	19.60	249,116	1,398	247,718
France	11.94	59.67	712,460	2,060	710,400
Japan	10.03	126.48	1,268,594	3,925	1,264,669
India	23.00	1,036.57	23,841,110	1,157	23,839,953

Total			30,694,413	40,860	30,653,553

Equivalent 911's					8,758

5

Persecution Complex Again.

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

in a way this thread is related to the one on why the fixation with the nazis i started last week - http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=41752&site=3.

anyway, the public talk on sunday was the one persecution, cant remember the exact title but i am sure many will recall it.

the speaker was excellent and made the talk very lively but somehow missed what i would consider the major point.

eyeslice

In a way this thread is related to the one on Why the fixation with the Nazis I started last week - http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=41752&site=3

Anyway, the public talk on Sunday was the one persecution, cant remember the exact title but I am sure many will recall it. The speaker was excellent and made the talk very lively but somehow missed what I would consider the major point. The whole theme was being persecuted because of being Jehovahs Witnesses; Witness kids at school, at work, picked on for being Jehovahs Witnesses, Witnesses in Nazis Germany, etc.

I checked my Bible during the talk, and in mine it speaks about is being persecuted because of being a follower of Jesus. The scriptures you will objects of hatred on account of my (Jesus) name were never mentioned once.

I am afraid that I never ceased to be amazed lately just how little regard to what the Bible actually says is paid either in the literature or from the platform. Theology of any description seems to be either totally lacking or non-existent.

12

Why the fixation on the Nazis?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

is it just me but do the society have a fixation on the nazis and the relatively few witness martyrs?.

i was skimming through the jan 15th 2003 watchtower, and came across a couple of photos of brothers who were in concentration camps that i must have seen a 100 times before.

then, on the back there something about ones who died at the hands of the nazis in hungary.. now dont get me wrong, i know that what happen at the hands on the nazis was truly awful, and that many of those who died were people whose faith at least i can admire.

eyeslice

Is it just me but do the Society have a fixation on the Nazis and the relatively few Witness martyrs?

I was skimming through the Jan 15th 2003 Watchtower, and came across a couple of photos of brothers who were in concentration camps that I must have seen a 100 times before. Then, on the back there something about ones who died at the hands of the Nazis in Hungary.

Now dont get me wrong, I know that what happen at the hands on the Nazis was truly awful, and that many of those who died were people whose faith at least I can admire. However, there must be a limit to what mileage the Society can make from these horrific experiences.

Rather than harping on about the past, I believe that Christian believers today can find hope and encouragement amongst their peers. People we know today may not be experiencing the same level of brutality as under the Nazis, but we all know of ones who are battling with ill health, some times terminal illness such as cancer, emotional problems and economic reverses. Often these are the ones who lift our spirit by their dogged determination and will to make the most of life.

I am sure that all Christian martyrs rest in Gods love, and there is little we can do to help those who died decades or even centuries ago. We can be there, though, for those who are suffering today and extend them our loving support while we still have them.

Eyeslice

8

Anyone read William Barclay's works?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

i wandered into a "christian" book store the other day, i was out of town on business, not sure that i would do it in my own town, where i might get spotted and ratted on to the elders.. i bought a copy of one of william barclay's book, a study of john's gospel.. as i read it, i keep thinking how good it is compared with the watchtower!

the society bangs on about the abundance of spiritual food but i find the watchtower and most other society literature shallow and unchallenging.

i can speed read a watchtower in about 5 minutes and still keep abreast with "new light".. this guy, barclay, however really knew his stuff and was not afraid to go into detail.

eyeslice

I wandered into a "Christian" book store the other day, I was out of town on business, not sure that I would do it in my own town, where I might get spotted and ratted on to the elders.

I bought a copy of one of William Barclay's book, a study of John's gospel.

As I read it, I keep thinking how good it is compared with the Watchtower! The Society bangs on about the abundance of spiritual food but I find the Watchtower and most other Society literature shallow and unchallenging. I can speed read a Watchtower in about 5 minutes and still keep abreast with "new light".

This guy, Barclay, however really knew his stuff and was not afraid to go into detail. What is interesting is that he personally was a Universalist, believing that God's love is so great that all will eventually come to salvation. A little different from the current witness theology.

Incidently, I also read C S Lewis's Mere Christianity a few years back when I was still an elder but it's the sort the sort of stuff you hide when you have Witness friends round, don't want to stumble anyne!

Anybody else read any his works or other challenging Christian writings?

22

Do you still read the bible?

by JH in

jw
friends

.

not going to the meetings anymore, do you still feel the need to read god's word?

edited by - jh on 5 december 2002 14:52:45.

eyeslice

Yes and I also still read all the Society's literature.

What strikes me now is the shallowness of the literature. I appreciate that not everyone is going to be a theologian, but as I read the Bible especially the NT, I see lots of things that the Society does not appreciate, God's love, the need to be like Jesus in how we deal with people, etc., etc.

Whether you are a totally committed believer or not, there is no denying that what the gospels tell about Jesus is a worthy example to follow.

Eyeslice

13

Who is Christ?

by Kurt in

this is a question for an active witness.

do witnesses believe jesus is the christ, the predicted messiah?

if not, is messiah still to come?.

eyeslice

Hi Kurt and welcome!

I take it from your question you are not/never were on of Jehovahs Witnesses. I myself have been a JW for over 40 years but have severe doubts that at present are leading me in new directions.

JWs do believe that Jesus is the Christ or Messiah and is the Son of God. They do not believe him to be the same as God, and hence do not believe in the Trinity as taught by most other Christian religions.

However, the problem with JW dogma is that they glorify God (Jehovah) almost to the total exclusion of Christ. They recognise the ransom of Christ and pray for Gods Kingdom in the hands of Christ, but IMO the average JW knows little of what it really means to come to know the Christ. Those of the Great Crowd, the vast majority of JWs today, do not part take of the bread and wine at the annual memorial of Christs death as celebrated by the witnesses. Hence, they cannot understand some of the basic teaching of the NT that clearly states that unless we are born again and share in the body and blood of Christ, we cannot come into a relationship with Christ and God.

Many on this board are former JWs who have become atheists, agnostics or sceptics. Others, like myself have come to understand what belief in God and Christ is about and are trying to find new ways of growing spiritually and expressing our beliefs.

What ever your views, may I wish you well with your quest

Eyeslice

(edited for typos)

Edited by - eyeslice on 2 December 2002 15:33:14

32

The Question Of The Day Do You Want Eternal Life?

by minimus in

jw
friends

do you still hope to live forever?

eyeslice

The problem some have is distinguishing between everlasting life and eternal life.

Everlasting life can be read as continuous, never ending life. But if you are suffering, physically or emotionally, everlasting life of that sort would be unbearable. Interesting the society often seems to prefer word everlasting as opposed to eternal remember some of the old book/booklet titles.

The true life that Christ spoken about was eternal life in God. There is no doubt that the Bible talks about Jesus being God, you know the old chestnut, John 1:1. The NWT s was a god, seems to be not a very accurate translation, though many Bible commentators indicate that the word God should be taken as an adjective rather than an indication that Jesus was part of a trinity. If we consider ourselves to be Christians, then as we become more like Christ like, we become more like God.

What this means at our death, I am not too sure. I have looked into Buddhism, and may be their views are not as far away from Christ taught as we may think. As individuals, if we strive to be better persons, we become more God-like until we actually become like him and part of him.

9

Anyone guess where I served?

by eyeslice in

jw
friends

i served in a foreign country for a good while - any one guess where?.

the clue is in my user name.. regards.

eyesliceedited by - eyeslice on 29 november 2002 16:2:27.

eyeslice

I served in a foreign country for a good while - any one guess where?

The clue is in my user name.

Regards

Eyeslice

Edited by - eyeslice on 29 November 2002 16:2:27