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where do the bible-believers in this forum stand on the genesis creation?
is it one story told by one author, the same story told twice with different emphasis by the same author, the same story told twice with different emphasis by two different authors, or two different stories told by two different authors, or two different--and conflicting--stories told by two different authors?
Donkey,
Now where did Eve put the talking snake again?
I don't know maybe it's eating some dust now, as all snakes do, even the sea snakes. Yah cut its wings or feet so that it would have to slither. There was no fear from Eve, since as you know snakes and all animals were vegetarians at the time. They used their fangs to poison the fruit or would crush to death their food.
You need creationism in all schools. Science perverts the word of god.
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where do the bible-believers in this forum stand on the genesis creation?
is it one story told by one author, the same story told twice with different emphasis by the same author, the same story told twice with different emphasis by two different authors, or two different stories told by two different authors, or two different--and conflicting--stories told by two different authors?
If you look up "parable of the eagle" on the net, you'll find variations to the story - you could argue that the historical basis for it can't be proven, and the account appears shoddy because there may not be the one account, and careful investigation may reveal similar stories from 'other' cultures.
Yes, but those accounts are not in different cultures or books. They are paragraphs away!
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where do the bible-believers in this forum stand on the genesis creation?
is it one story told by one author, the same story told twice with different emphasis by the same author, the same story told twice with different emphasis by two different authors, or two different stories told by two different authors, or two different--and conflicting--stories told by two different authors?
The more I read about the creation, the more I am convinced about it.
I like the JW version even better. Each day is actually 1000 years old.
See it was completely possible for plants to be created, grow and reproduce for 1000 years with no sunlight.
It is also possible that plants reproduced for 3000 years without animals without pollination from bees. Ok, you got me. Since bees and pollinating insects are technically flying animals, they were created on the fifth rather than the sixth day, so flowering plants only had to wait 2000 years to reproduce.
Why do I believe this?
Because nothing is impossible for the Elohim, that's why.
How do I know this?
Because the bible says so.
And why do I believe what the bible says?
Because the bible is the word of God.
How do I know the bible is the word of God?
Because the bible says so.
Gee, you unbelievers are so dumb. You can't even think on your own.
everyone knows that the saducees differed from the pharisees over the teaching of an afterlife(resurrection).
they also didnot accept the idea of angels, demons, and miraculous healings among other things.
the question is why?
This theme seems interesting,
Can you expand it a bit?
jesus was gay - says academic
jesus was gay and so were at least three of his 12 disciples, according to an australian academic.. .
dr rollan mccleary said jesus's astrological chart, clues in the scriptures and biblical translations, all played a part in his conclusions.. in a forthcoming book, he attempts to present st john's gospel in a new light to back up his claims, reports the herald sun.. dr rollan mccleary, a university of queensland phd graduate who now lives in melbourne, has just been awarded his doctorate for a thesis on gay spirituality.. an anglican and a qualified reader of astrological charts, dr mccleary said the planet uranus figured prominently in jesus's astrological chart, as it did with many gays..
Just because Irenaeus 180 A.D. stated that Christ lived longer than the earlier more direct witnesses stated, does not overturn the historicity of Jesus Christ. I have used sources much older than Ireanaus to establish the historicity of Jesus Christ (see my above "Pilate" post where I listed 8 early references.)Anyway, Irenaeus was in agreement with the earlier witnesses on the basics of Jesus Christ, and his mistake in no way overturns the previous much older testimony.
That proves that if Jesus was really a historical person in the sense of his accomplishments being true, as portrayed by the ghospels, Irenaeus would have known when Jesus died. If he quoted relatively contemporaries of Jesus as believing his life to having extended to the age of 50 (or even older), then it means that even by that relatively small amount of time after his death, his life (if at all he existed) had taken the proportions of a myth. I would not call this a historical person.
His so called prophecies have not taken place. The Ghospels are full of contradictions. Josephus dedicates pages to common criminals, but only a few paragraphs to Jesus. There is no mention of the massacre committed by Herod, which would have been a clearly historical fact and mentioned by him. These insertions on Josephus make no sense, proving that they were added at a later time when Christians had control of the Roman Empire.
raising children without religion
by dave silverman.
i often get requests for advice from parents who wish to raise their children without religion, or who at least want to provide a religion -free influence in the lives of their children.
Actually, I believe that the best way to raise them is to teach them religion.
Before I became a JW I considered myself an agnostic. I fell into the cult because I believed their PR bs. They show this face of having clean lives, etc. They show you only their side of their story, so it seems to agree. The problem was that I was not an informed Agnostic. I did not see all the contradictions for what they were. It took me the reading of "Is it God's Word" by Joseph Wheeles to realize that the problem was not JWs but the bible in general. One of the things that stuck in my mind by reading this book is that if two statements contradict one another, either one is wrong, or both are wrong but both of them cannot be right.
You can visit some churches with them but make sure you explain to them their mistakes.
Above all, encourage free and critical thinking. Like you say: games are a good start.
lev.27:28,29 says ..."but any devoted thing which a man devotes to jehovah from all which belongs to him, of man or of animal, or of the field of his possession, it shall not be sold nor redeemed.
everyone devoted to destruction(sacrificed) is most holy no devoted thing which is dedicated by man shall be ransomed; it shall surely be put to death.
this explains why jeptha, when promising to offer as burnt offering the first person to great him upon his successful return from war, had to kill his daughter dispite his feelings for her.
I had this discussion with some exjws in a Spanish site. One of them even called me a brute. I refered them to the Vulgata version at
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=JUDG+11:29-41&language=latin&showfn=on
ut post anni circulum conveniant in unum filiae Israhel et plangant filiam Iepthae Galaaditae diebus quattuor
Most people know that Plangant is the root for plañir, and plañidera which means to cry for someone at funerals. Plañideras were women who were paid to cry at funerals.
The ever lying WT uses whatever is at its disposal and looks for verses and interpretations that suit their doctrines.
Another mind blowing one is the following
! Kings: 16 34 In his days hath Hiel the Beth-Elite built Jericho; in Abiram his first-born he laid its foundation, and in Segub his youngest he set up its doors, according to the word of Jehovah that He spake by the hand of Joshua son of Nun.
This is nothing but a superstition common in old civilizations, that used dead bodies in foundations to protect the gates of the cities.
jesus was gay - says academic
jesus was gay and so were at least three of his 12 disciples, according to an australian academic.. .
dr rollan mccleary said jesus's astrological chart, clues in the scriptures and biblical translations, all played a part in his conclusions.. in a forthcoming book, he attempts to present st john's gospel in a new light to back up his claims, reports the herald sun.. dr rollan mccleary, a university of queensland phd graduate who now lives in melbourne, has just been awarded his doctorate for a thesis on gay spirituality.. an anglican and a qualified reader of astrological charts, dr mccleary said the planet uranus figured prominently in jesus's astrological chart, as it did with many gays..
Irenaeus, who was an "early father" of the 2nd century, tells us that Jesus indeed lived, but he lived to and old age!Irenaeus, wrote around the year 180 A.D. He agreed that Jesus was real person who was crucified. He may however also have taught that Jesus lived to a much older age than the earler more direct witinesses taught. His testimony in no way overturns the earlier witnesses.
How could he then, in his position of a father of the church have made those statements when he was so close to the time of the Christ?
He defends his teachings on the word of the pharisees quoted on the ghospel and other supposedly ocular witnesses.
All this teaches you is that they did not even have their s**t together in the second century.
That reminds me of all the whitewashing of the WT of their history.
The biblical Jesus smacks of fantasy. Jesus was a common name in the first century, not even Emmanuel. His birthplace is fantasy. He came only for the Jews, the documents selected for the NT are full of holes. He did not even know his commandments. Then you have a church father, who is not even sure of his age at death, when this supposedly happened only 150 years after it happened. How can you trust a testimony like this?
jesus was gay - says academic
jesus was gay and so were at least three of his 12 disciples, according to an australian academic.. .
dr rollan mccleary said jesus's astrological chart, clues in the scriptures and biblical translations, all played a part in his conclusions.. in a forthcoming book, he attempts to present st john's gospel in a new light to back up his claims, reports the herald sun.. dr rollan mccleary, a university of queensland phd graduate who now lives in melbourne, has just been awarded his doctorate for a thesis on gay spirituality.. an anglican and a qualified reader of astrological charts, dr mccleary said the planet uranus figured prominently in jesus's astrological chart, as it did with many gays..
Yeah, right!
Irenaeus, who was an "early father" of the 2nd century, tells us that Jesus indeed lived, but he lived to and old age!
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-59.htm - P6719_1628705
3. But it is greatly to be wondered at, how it has come to pass that, while affirming that they have found out the mysteries of God, they have not examined the Gospels to ascertain how often after His baptism the Lord went up, at the time of the passover, to Jerusalem, in accordance with what was the practice of the Jews from every land, and every year, that they should assemble at this period in Jerusalem, and there celebrate the feast of the passover. First of all, after He had made the water wine at Cana of Galilee, He went up to the festival day of the passover, on which occasion it is written, "For many believed in Him, when they saw the signs which He did,"140 as John the disciple of the Lord records. Then, again, withdrawing Himself [from Judaea], He is found in Samaria; on which occasion, too, He convened with the Samaritan woman, and while at a distance, cured the son of the centurion by a word, saying, "Go thy way, thy son liveth."141 Afterwards He went up, the second time, to observe the festival day of the passover142 in Jerusalem; on which occasion He cured the paralytic man, who had lain beside the pool thirty-eight years, bidding him rise, take up his couch, and depart. Again, withdrawing from thence to the other side of the sea of Tiberias,143 He there seeing a great crowd had followed Him, fed all that multitude with five loaves of bread, and twelve baskets of fragments remained over and above. Then, when He had raised Lazarus from the dead, and plots were formed against Him by the Pharisees, He withdrew to a city called Ephraim; and from that place, as it is written "He came to Bethany six days before the passover,"144 and going up from Bethany to Jerusalem, He there ate the passover, and suffered on the day following. Now, that these three occasions of the passover are not included within one year, every person whatever must acknowledge. And that the special month in which the passover was celebrated, and in which also the Lord suffered, was not the twelfth, but the first, those men who boast that they know all things, if they know not this, may learn it from Moses. Their explanation, therefore, both of the year and of the twelfth month has been proved false, and they ought to reject either their explanation or the Gospel; otherwise [this unanswerable question forces itself upon them], How is it possible that the Lord preached for one year only?
4. Being thirty years old when He came to be baptized, and then possessing the full age of a Master,145 He came to Jerusalem, so that He might be properly acknowledged146 by all as a Master. For He did not seem one thing while He was another, as those affirm who describe Him as being man only in appearance; but what He was, that He also appeared to be. Being a Master, therefore, He also possessed the age of a Master, not despising or evading any condition of humanity, nor setting aside in Himself that law which He had147 appointed for the human race, but sanctifying every age, by that period corresponding to it which belonged to Himself. For He came to save all through means of Himself-all, I say, who through Him are born again to God148 -infants,149 and children, and boys, and youths, and old men. He therefore passed through every age, becoming an infant for infants, thus sanctifying infants; a child for children, thus sanctifying those who are of this age, being at the same time made to them an example of piety, righteousness, and submission; a youth for youths, becoming an example to youths, and thus sanctifying them for the Lord. So likewise He was an old man for old men, that He might be a perfect Master for all, not merely as respects the setting forth of the truth, but also as regards age, sanctifying at the same time the aged also, and becoming an example to them likewise. Then, at last, He came on to death itself, that He might be "the first-born from the dead, that in all things He might have the pre-eminence,"150 the Prince of life,151 existing before all, and going before all.152
5. They, however, that they may establish their false opinion regarding that which is written, "to proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord," maintain that He preached for one year only, and then suffered in the twelfth month. [In speaking thus], they are forgetful to their own disadvantage, destroying His whole work, and robbing Him of that age which is both more necessary and more honourable than any other; that more advanced age, I mean, during which also as a teacher He excelled all others. For how could He have had disciples, if He did not teach? And how could He have taught, unless He had reached the age of a Master? For when He came to be baptized, He had not yet completed His thirtieth year, but was beginning to be about thirty years of age (for thus Luke, who has mentioned His years, has expressed it: "Now Jesus was, as it were, beginning to be thirty years old,"153 when He came to receive baptism); and, [according to these men, ] He preached only one year reckoning from His baptism. On completing His thirtieth year He suffered, being in fact still a young man, and who had by no means attained to advanced age. Now, that the first stage of early life embraces thirty years,154 and that this extends onwards to the fortieth year, every one will admit; but from the fortieth and fiftieth year a man begins to decline towards old age, which our Lord possessed while He still fulfilled the office of a Teacher, even as the Gospel and all the elders testify; those who were conversant in Asia with John, the disciple of the Lord, [affirming] that John conveyed to them that information.155 And he remained among them up to the times of Trajan.156 Some of them, moreover, saw not only John, but the other apostles also, and heard the very same account from them, and bear testimony as to the [validity of] the statement. Whom then should we rather believe? Whether such men as these, or Ptolemaeus, who never saw the apostles, and who never even in his dreams attained to the slightest trace of an apostle?
i have personally had experience with this.
a long time friend committed suicide because of her husband and the problems they were having.
he abused her and ended up leaving her, the elders wouldn't help out much stating that it was a marital problem.. she couldn't cope with him leaving, she was extremely dependant on him, she felt the only way out was suicide.
Sorry about your losses,
I think that there should be a thread or even a site dedicated to suicides, like this one. I have the idea that this will get people to start thinking about how cruel their organization is.
Basically, I am surprised that not many of them would take their pain against the organization instead of on themselves.
Their cure for everything is: Get more self indoctrinated. No feelings for people in extreme pain.
