Posts by StephaneLaliberte

19

As a JW, What statements made you "stop thinking?"

by Faithful Witness in

thought-stopping platitudes, like "we are in the last days!

"jehovah's witnesses are the only ones with the truth...".

what statements or claims did you use, or hear, that made you feel comforted by the fact that you were part of jehovah's organization?.

StephaneLaliberte

JWs are the only one truely promoting pure worship as they keeping the congregation pure through disfellowshipping.
We live in a spiritual paradise
JWs are the only one bearing the fruits: No one else preaches like they do!
JWs are the only ones preaching truths such as : No hell fire, no Trinity and an earthly paradise.
JWs are of the few willing to die for their beliefs
JWs don't go to war unlike all other religions

22

My conversation with my mother in law.

by StephaneLaliberte in

my wife and i recently took the decision to fade out progressively and we are now in the stage where we no longer assist to our meetings.

in this process, we have told the truth to our respective parents but have not forced ourselves upon them; meaning that: we will talk about it when you want to.

as a result, my mother in-law already had some conversations with my wife on why we no longer went, but never brought up the subject with me, at least, up until yesterday.. she was telling us that a good deal of people miss us at the meeting and i answered that i missed them also.

StephaneLaliberte

Thanks Aroq,

Thats what I love about comming here. Often, I see people arguing and bringing forward points and arguments and truely listening to one another. With a JW, you always have the yes, but.... and they go on trying to prove their points.

18

A startling example of a JW ignoring evidence

by Pyramid God in

i happen to work with my father, and today we got into another debate about the origin of life.

during the debate, while rebutting a lot of creationist canards, he said that mutations are always harmful to an organism.. .

after he left i sent him a quick email with a link to talk origins on the subject of mutations.

StephaneLaliberte

Explaining and debating faith takes time. Not everyone has time - at the same time. What I mean is that perhaps this man took a serious amount of time to review his beliefs a few years back and then, went on to live accordingly. As time goes by, questions and doubts will arise and he will once more need to take a serious amount of time to review his beliefs once more. The fact that these periods do not happen when YOU ask a question does not make them ignorant. It simply means that at this time in his life, he needs to focus on work and other things.

Point is: don't give up on him, simply make yourself lovable, show respect and when his next "self-questioning" period commes along, just be available.

22

My conversation with my mother in law.

by StephaneLaliberte in

my wife and i recently took the decision to fade out progressively and we are now in the stage where we no longer assist to our meetings.

in this process, we have told the truth to our respective parents but have not forced ourselves upon them; meaning that: we will talk about it when you want to.

as a result, my mother in-law already had some conversations with my wife on why we no longer went, but never brought up the subject with me, at least, up until yesterday.. she was telling us that a good deal of people miss us at the meeting and i answered that i missed them also.

StephaneLaliberte

Aroq, actions that I take now may have a ripple effect on people I love around me. This love makes me accountable to them and unfortunately, to the very authority to which they submit, the JW congregation. As a result, though inactive, I must pretend that I only need a break and have nothing against the teachings! This makes me look spiritually weak, but not apostate.

Expressing publically that I no longer believe the doctrines would cause my disfellowshipping and my loved ones would require time and energy to review their own beliefs and motives. Unfortunately, for some, I can tell they already have challenges that would make it to much to handle right now.

This is why, I must remain silent until the train passes and then, take a stand. At least, I have great hope that this will inevitably happen in a few years from now. At that time, I will purposefully request shepherding calls and go out in a blaze of glory. Some of these elders have been my friends and I find it very difficult to bit my tongue. But my love for my friends and family outweighs my desire to set these self-righteous men straight - at least, for now.

22

My conversation with my mother in law.

by StephaneLaliberte in

my wife and i recently took the decision to fade out progressively and we are now in the stage where we no longer assist to our meetings.

in this process, we have told the truth to our respective parents but have not forced ourselves upon them; meaning that: we will talk about it when you want to.

as a result, my mother in-law already had some conversations with my wife on why we no longer went, but never brought up the subject with me, at least, up until yesterday.. she was telling us that a good deal of people miss us at the meeting and i answered that i missed them also.

StephaneLaliberte

Thanks for all the comments.

JunkYardDog, the fact that my wife is with me on this makes my life a whole lot easier. And yet, I feel we are still both under a great amount of stress as we are not entirely free. As long as we are not D/A, we have some accountability to the Witnesses and our friends who still are. As a result, we are not entirely free to speak out minds or to live our lives as we would truly whish.

I believe we will be able to do so in the long run, perhaps in another few years, but until then, we must take great caution in anything we say and do publically and this in itself is a solid load on our mutual shoulders.

At least, the fact that we can bear this load together makes it much easier.

ThomasCovenant, I believe a great deal of JWs clap their hands or say Amen without asking themselves: “Do I agree with this?”.

KateWild: We told our parents our beliefs as they are the very reasons why we do not get disfellowshipped. If they decide to go tell the elders, then so be it. However, I’m not the type to go out without a fight; they would have to face me, in a JC - twice! Yes, when I'll have a JC, I will automatically request an appeal. I doubt that my mother in law realy wants to go through this process.

22

My conversation with my mother in law.

by StephaneLaliberte in

my wife and i recently took the decision to fade out progressively and we are now in the stage where we no longer assist to our meetings.

in this process, we have told the truth to our respective parents but have not forced ourselves upon them; meaning that: we will talk about it when you want to.

as a result, my mother in-law already had some conversations with my wife on why we no longer went, but never brought up the subject with me, at least, up until yesterday.. she was telling us that a good deal of people miss us at the meeting and i answered that i missed them also.

StephaneLaliberte

My wife and I recently took the decision to fade out progressively and we are now in the stage where we no longer assist to our meetings. This has been going on for a while now. In this process, we have told the truth to our respective parents but have not forced ourselves upon them; meaning that: We will talk about it when you want to. As a result, my mother in-law already had some conversations with my wife on why we no longer went, but never brought up the subject with me, at least, up until yesterday.

She was telling us that a good deal of people miss us at the meeting and I answered that I missed them also. That there were many people that I enjoyed speaking with and find it somewhat difficult to no longer be able to speak with them. The conversation went somewhat like this:

MIL (mother in law): So why don’t you come back? What is holding you back?

Me: I would like to go back, unfortunately, the sad reality is that things will never be the same and I need to slowly come to terms with it.

MIL: What do you mean? Everyone would be happy to have you back.

Me: Actually, the reason why we are not going back is not because of anyone. There is no one I can point a finger to in my congregation and say that such a person caused me so much grief that I can no longer attend the meeting. Unfortunately, this is a case where is has nothing to do with the members of the congregation and everything about what is being thought!

MIL: I know there are things that makes us all ponder, but the society never claimed to be perfect, we need to be humble and go over these things! Most of what is thought is actually true!

Me: You know that I actually agree with you in that I agree with about 70% of what is thought from the platform and what is printed. Unfortunately, it is not a matter of quantity but of importance. What were the most important commandments according to Jesus?

MIL:Love Jehovah and your neighbor.

Me: That’s right! And he added that on these two commandments, the whole law hangs and the prophets! Therefore, if someone teaches anything but lacks in love, he is working against the spirit. No one bearing the name of Christ and his teachings should ever consider taking actions that obviously lack in love. With this in mind, can you imagine a way by which Jesus would then go on explaining the process of disfellowshipping someone.

MIL: Well, you know I do not agree with this when it comes to family members.

Me: Why don’t you agree with it?

MIL: Obviously, it doesn’t make sense to act that way with family members.

Me: And yet, this is what they teach. How can I now pass this on to my kids?

MIL: Yeah, still you can try to explain to them a balanced view.

Me: That is the issue here: Most adult witnesses don’t agree with at least some teaching and they go on telling themselves that they must be humble and simply overlook such details when in the end, the ones lacking humility are the one enforcing things that could be subject to changes in the long run! So how can I instill trust for them to my kids?

MIL: Aren’t you afraid of what they will grow up to be in the world? They won’t have any protections! They need to be protected in Jehovah’s organization!

Me: Honestly now, try to be as honest about this as you can be: How many people do you know that have been disfellowshipped at one time or another? And how many more do you who have been divorced? And how many have suffered injustice in one way or another. You have been in the organization for over 30 years…. Think of all the people that have surrounded you from the beginning… think of our own family. Do you truly believe that everyone was in a dome protected from all evil? The only difference is that when someone does stupid stuff for a while, they are disfellowshipped. We then go on and tell ourselves that we have protected the congregation, but that very person who fell was part of that congregation. We are simply keeping an eye for the 99 sheep and completely forgetting about that one sheep. For instance, ####### was disfellowshipped before she married as she lived in sin. Now that she is married, the only way she can come back to the congregation is to deal with the ordeal of sitting at the back for at least 6 months so that everyone sees just how much she has humbled herself. How can we conciliate this with the prodigal son parabola?

MIL: Yeah, I know it doesn’t make sence, but you take what you need and leave the bad stuff out. You can explain this to your kids as they grow older. At least you will have the support in teaching them many things about the bible.

Me: So how exactly do you want me to go about this? We are sitting at a meeting, I hear something that simply doesn’t make sense, and whisper my disapproval in my kid’s ears? Of course this wont work. In no time, I will be sitting in a back room with three elders explaining myself.

MIL: You don`t do it at the meetings, but you can do it after!

Me: And still have the very real possibility that my kid will, at one point or another turn against me? I remember one day, at a district convention, there was this 16 year old girl that poured her heart out in regards to her father who was an apostate and that she had no contacts with him. She felt it was hard, but she was placing Jehovah first. And then, about three thousand people in assistant applauded her. I was discussed. And upon reflecting on it, I cannot conceive the idea of slaving for my family and my kid’s future as I am right now only to wake up 15 years later and see my kids on that very stage, cheered by people who, in the end, are clapping simply because the brother ended his sentence on a high note.

MIL: <speech less>

ME: How many books did the first Christian wrote?

MIL: 20?

ME: Well, at our last assembly, a brother boasted from the stage about how the society has printed billions of pages of scriptural teachings. Why do they need to print so much? Jesus thought simplicity. He didn’t even write anything himself. And yet, now, we are in a situation where we must make a search in the WT Library every time we have a doubt about anything. That’s what we are thought at the assemblies when we see mini dramas where the brother reasons with his wife or his kids, with various WT articles. If this is not extrapolating on human traditions, I don’t know what is. We now have much more writings defining our faith then the very Jews that Jesus was condemning.

What are the fruits of the spirit?

MIL: Love, Joy, Peace, etc.

ME: Exactly! Did you notice it is not: Writing, Preaching, studying the meetings, placing magazines, judging, organizing, etc. Yet Jesus said that his disciples would be recognized by their fruits. However, somehow, we try to convince ourselves that the fruits of our organization are all of the other things when we clearly demonstrate we blatantly lack love in regards to people who do less as we are too busy marking them as bad influence.

Conversation went a little further, but I now must get back to work. In the end, I felt that my MIL very hurt as the reasons I provided her did not fall within the usual suspects: I need to work more, I drink to much, I smoke, I can’t stand brother so or so, etc. No, it was plainly the society at fault and no one else. If I have more time, I will finish writing up the summary of that conversation. I just hope it may help other people in a similar situation.

13

Where Is All The Money Going from Sales of WTB&TS `s Real Estate Properties.

by smiddy in

what governmental requirements are their for full disclosure of the proceeds from sales of property made by a not for profit organization such as the wtb&ts.. how does the wtb&ts explain their charitable status when they do not provide any charitable benefits to anyone , when all their members , jehovahs witnesses are not employed by them , they are just volunteers.. does american law allow religous institutions to hide monetary transactions or is their full transparency regarding their use of their money.. how can a multi million $ publishing company , engaged in a multi million $ real estate organisation be considered as a not for profit organisation .. is their anything like an auditor general in the usa that needs to investigate these things ?.

just asking.. smiddy.

StephaneLaliberte

What about the possibility that there were mortgages on these properties and that most of the profit was to pay them off? So, in reality, they would not have a billion in the bank but a fraction of that money... let’s say a quarter: 250 million. Wouldn't that change our perspective of the WT being profitable?

12

Update on my fade

by Jon Preston in

i apologize for the strangeness of my topics of late.

im in antight spot.

i havent been to a meeting for over a month...wife is sick again and wants me to attend but i am having the most difficilt time getting motivated to go...i mean every molecule in my body wants to stay home..but ive got an elder friend texting to ask if we are going and another asking for our service reports....grrr.

StephaneLaliberte

Say yes! Then don't show up. while he's at the meeting around 8:45, text the following :

"Sorry bro, I dressed up and everything. As I was ready by 6:30, I thought I could take a power nap til 7pm, but I woke up at 8:30!!! I guess I needed the sleep... work has been so stressful lately. Ahhh well. I undressed and went straight to bed."

See? Oh I know it is lying, but they, as a group, are threathening you with, so, it is strategic spiritual warefare. Fair and square. :)

May Jah bless your efforts toward freedom.

1

Fruit of the spirit

by StephaneLaliberte in

when i was "in" i mainly associated the fruits bared by the witnesses as all "love, joy, peace, etc" being demonstrated through field service.

now, i have come to realize that it is simply how you are with people around you.

take for instance this old lady who waved at kids going to school: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/83926034/?autoplay=false.

StephaneLaliberte

When I was "in" I mainly associated the fruits bared by the witnesses as all "Love, joy, peace, etc" being demonstrated through field service. Now, I have come to realize that it is simply how you are with people around you.

Take for instance this old lady who waved at kids going to school: http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/83926034/?autoplay=false

She nailed the first two attributes of the fruit right there!

26

Seeds of Doubt.

by donny in

seeds of doubt.

what was it about the jw religion that first gave you serious doubts as to its truthiness?.

for me it occurred in late 1984 when we were studying the brochure the divine name that will endure forever which had been released at the summer convention that year.

StephaneLaliberte

villagegirl, I found your comment interesting as I recalled that both titles had been used. That is, "Millions now living MAY never die" and "Millions now living WILL never die".

Looking into this, I found that the WT Library 2013 used "WILL" most of the times, however, the expression "MAY" has still been used on numerous occasions.

I also found the following quote in the old magazines:

We strongly recommend the classes everywhere to arrange for one public meeting when a Pilgrim visits your class. Secure a well-located hall and announce an up-to-date subject, such as, "THE WORLD HAS ENDED--Millions now Living may never die!" and give a good public witness to the Truth.

Zion's Watch Tower, January 1, 1918, page 2. "IN RE Public Meetings" heading.

Therefore, the society is not distorting history when using the title "[...] may never die". That being said, it is obvious that the "[...] will never die" was the one pushed forward in the following years and also used as the title for a book. Thus, this does not deminish the society's role in preaching a false prophecy as all those who heard this talk, have since, died.