Posts by StephaneLaliberte

20

Are faders like me just cowards? Should I show my face?

by Witness 007 in

i feel bad i just faded away and did not "come out" as an apostate hater.

my mum died refusing blood and still i hang back my wife still has witness friends and goes to the memorial every year..

StephaneLaliberte

As I have faded, my core family (wife and kids) are no longer under the full control of watchtower. I say full control as there are small things that still impact my core family: We cannot publicly celebrate Christmas, Halloween and birthdays. We still do, but we don’t do it in a manner that would be seen by JWs. We also don’t say anything negative about cults and the JWs on social media or in the vicinity of JWs ears.

Living with these hurdles has allowed us to keep a decent relationship with our JWs family (parents, relatives, and their JW friends). For instance, we can share meals with them and have conversations. To ensure that these relationships are based on respect, we’ve had a unique conversation with them years ago on “why we left”. They heard our reasons and never asked about it again. On our part, we never talked about these either and never criticize their belief since. On the contrary, we know their religion makes them happy and so, are willing to help when needed. This works as our relationship is based on love and respect.

Now, are we cowards for taking the path we've have chosen? By revealing our position to our family, we’ve taken very real and sizable risks in our lives. We’ve lost all our friends and several family members in the process. We also risked disfellowshipping should our family had chosen to report us. So, are we any less courageous for not facing our enemy and telling them straight what we truly believe?

Here is an example that will help put things in perspective:

During the Nazi regime, the JWs take great pride in the fact that they would not salute Hitler and face persecution head on. For those who did, we can say they were remarkably courageous. But what about those who saluted Hitler, lied about their beliefs, and blew up train tracks at night? Were they not courageous as well? Didn’t their actions have a greater impact on the Nazi regime than the martyrs willingly giving themselves up?

Same goes for the faders. Many will leave the WT, lie about why, and in the “evening”, write on apostate sites such as this one, contributing to the “resistance”.

Not willingly making yourself and your family martyrs doesn’t make you any less courageous, it simply makes you an astute enemy.

14

What’s Your Opinion of Companies That Decide To Stop Doing Business With You Because of Politics?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i think it’s terrible.

if someone wants to believe in a political party they should not be punished or censured because of who they like or what their politics are, right or left.

.

StephaneLaliberte

Well, if your business makes political statements and takes position for a party or another, then, yeah, sure. It makes sense. But otherwise, business should be business.

8

Jehovah`s Witnesses owe their existence to Christendom`s groundwork.

by smiddy3 in

1.jehovah`s witnesses base their bible on christendoms determination of what books of scripture were to become what is known as the bible today,going back to the third century ad.. there were many ,many other books of scripture in existence at that time that these men decided in their own imperfect wisdom not to include them .. where it suited them the jw / gb would use the research of christendoms learned men who compiled bible dictionary`s and bible concordances.. 2.by far the vast majority of jehovah`s witnesses today are off-shoots of many of christendom`s religions from whom they poached members from and then gave birth to their own offspring to grow in numbers.. with all of there self praise of witnessing in all of the earth ,it is mainly wholly contained in lands where christendom has established the major religion of that land and jw`s have poached the most vulnerable people of that time.. 3.how many thousands of people have they converted in bangladesh ?

pakistan ?

china ?

StephaneLaliberte

that was one of the things that woke me up. JWs brag about their preaching work and I've grown up believing that the Catholics and other Christian dominations didn't preach simply because they didn't go door to door. And then, I stopped and wondered: How could they end up with billions of believers without preaching? Than, I was trying to dismiss it saying: "Yeah, but they were preaching false teachings." ... Well when you consider all the old lights that the JWs preached about, they were also preaching false teachings. So.... that argument false flat.

16

Cain and Abel...Who recorded this tragic event?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

3 the day came when cain brought a gift of the fruit of the ground to the lord.

4 but abel brought a gift of the first-born of his flocks and of the fat parts.

the lord showed favor to abel and his gift.

StephaneLaliberte

Oh people of little faith! Don't you know that all those stories were inspired directly by God himself? Like a businessman dictates a letter to his secretary, God dictated the bible to Moses, Mathew, and all the other writers. This is a fact, cause the bible itself says so. What kind of human wisdom do you boast about to that you can't believe someone or a book when he or it says that it is inspired?

On a side not, quite amazing how God inspired the Songs of Songs of Solomon, or the writings where Paul detailed his personal feelings/health or where king David wrote prayers to God in psalms and also detailed his personal feelings. Yes, word for word, everything comes from God.

64

Havent gone to the kingdom hall in ten years but may have to go back...

by Joliette in

made a big mistake of talking about being raised as a jehovah's witness to some old friends and family.

people have told me that i am still a jws even though i've never been baptized.

i'm in school for social services, dealing with student loan debt, and a lot of other debt.

StephaneLaliberte

Hello Joliette, I can understand your feelings. You're looking for love, support and you believe that some is better than non at all. In the end, its your call to make. One thing I can say however is that JWs don't only come with love. They also come with judgement, fear and control. These additional negative features will cancel out the love that they bring and will drag you down to a state worst than you are now. The more you believe the teachings, the less aware you are of the negative traits. For instance, my parents do find a lot of joy with their JW friends. While they don't believe everything, they do find comfort in a lot of the teachings. Sadly though, based on your initial comment, that doesn't seem to be your case. Hence, this road may lead you to further pain that could become even worst than what you might experience today.

You could be surprised of how many other groups out there that can provide some love and support without the negative features brought along by rigid religious teachings. First to come to mind are not-for-profit organizations such as those that take care of the homeless.

55

Should Difference of Opinion Be Squelched On Sites Such As FB or Twitter?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i think that for the most part, dissenting views should be allowed to exist because of free speech principles.

one person may strongly feel that something is true while someone else may present “facts” that support the opposing view.

when that is the case, healthy discussion is mostly productive.

StephaneLaliberte

There is a difference between an opinion and incitation to violence/hatred. If someone tells people to come and protest, that’s an opinion. If someone advises people to commit crimes (storm a federal building, burn/break anything, use violence), that’s beyond freedom of speech.

I don’t know what Trump wrote on FB or twitter, but from what I’ve heard him say on TV, he was inciting to a big loud protest; he didn’t ask anyone to do anything illegal. We can argue that it was ill advised and that the events that happened were predictable, but it wasn’t clear cut promotion of violence. When it comes to freedom of expression, it is better to err on the side of caution rather than the opposite. You need to have a clear case to shut the mic down. Is that what happened with Trump? I don’t know; I don’t know what he wrote. But I’m willing to bet that it was not and that the social media have overstepped their boundaries.

30

Thoughts on JW funerals

by Syme in

i recently had the sad opportunity to attend 2 jw funerals.

the first was a few months ago and the second today.

the first was my grandfather's and the second of an old friend back from my jw days.

StephaneLaliberte

I've seen the script and you are correct in saying that it is much more geared towards the JWs teachings than "celebrating" the deceased's life. However, the experience I've had has not been consistent. The script does leave room for personal stories and I've seen elders take advantage of this. But, like you, I have also seen the horrible scenario where they barely uttered two sentences about the deceased and carried on with the "weekly meeting". I believe it largely depends on the brother. If you're parents are in, I advise trying to identify a "cool" brother who knew your parents well for the talk and ask them directly for their help.

I know that for my own parents... we'll likely have two ceremonies, the first with the JW immediately followed by a second, with the close friends and family where we'll eat, drink, share stories and watch photos.

19

It's Never Been Easier to Quit Being a JW!

by Simon in

jw
friends

just don't click that zoom button ....

StephaneLaliberte

I guess it depends on the congregations. I've heard from my family that their congregation is tighter than before. My mom actually likes it cause those who call actually care about her wellbeing, helping out with food or even rent! But this same love would certainly make it harder for someone to wants to fade out. Screen calls as Simon says? That won't work as they'll start calling friends and family about you. You can't screen everyone.

I believe the traditional fading tactic would still be the proper approach: Progressively increase the number of meetings missed until you miss them all. In 6 months to a year, you're out. The only thing that is easier about it is that, for the meetings you must attend, you can zoom in without actually listening as you'd have to do if you were physically there.

31

Who was it who ''rescued'', or ''saved'' you?

by Beth Sarim in

from the borg?.

i point to none other than cal lehman and the towerwatch ministries.

towewatch.com.. the years following the collapse of the ussr and the 1995 generation left a bad taste in my mouth for a long time.

StephaneLaliberte

There were multiple people/writers/speakers across the years that slowly chipped away at my faith:

1988 - Revelation book making crazy assertions, I was only 9 but could tell that applying scriptures to conventions in the 1900s was utterly boastful and self-centred.

1995 - Convention where they changed the generation teaching: The generation that wasn’t supposed to pass away became a “period”, later, became overlapping generations.

1996 – A gay householder told me: If I am to listen to you, I will need to leave the love of my life. Could you imagine falling in love, living the dream, only to have a kid show up to your door and tell you that you’ll have to leave that person? That struck a cord with me that still resonates now!

2006 – An Atheist Householder made me realize that all of the “creation” book was largely about one argument: “The world around us is so complex that it must have a creator”. This argument falls flat when the logical route leads to this: God is also, if not more, complex, therefore, he also needs a creator. On that day, I realized that my faith was not based on observable facts.

2005 - A friend of mine who called me an apostate when I read him something written by Charles Russell. His reaction was even more troubling to me than the article I was trying to share.

2005 - An experienced elder I respected who could not demonstrate that 1914 was based on the bible. He thought it was based on a biblical “pivot” date and started avoiding me when he realized it was not. That day, I realized that I was aware of how flimsy the teachings are and that I could seriously hurt people by sharing this information.

2007 – An elder chased down someone close to me in a grocery store. She was not married and very pregnant. He followed her from rows to rows up to the cash register, telling her she’ll have a Judicial Committee for this. His behaviour confirmed that they are more concerned about rules than helping people.

2011 - A 16-year-old sister who shared her experience at a convention where she explained how she shunned her father. I was shocked by the spectacle, thinking of how the only person that loved her were none of the thousands of people applauding, but her father which she was now shunning.

2013 - Elders at a meeting who didn’t understand the significance of multiple new lights in a specific watchtower. Showed me how shallow most of their knowledge of their religion is.

2013 – A Circuit Overseer at a service meeting who said : We don’t need to tell “this” to the householders until they are baptized. Certified my understanding that they manipulate many to baptism.

And finally, those who gave me the courage to say adios to my religion, family and friends:

2013 – Ray Franz’s books: I read both books and found a Christian, troubled by his religion. Up until me reading these books, I believed that despite many teachings, the JWs were generally better people than others. Than these books made me understand that their disrespect of personal conscience, and their legalistic approach to Christianity is even worst than fornicators. For instance, they will keep shunning someone who committed fornication, even after that person got married.

2013 - My kids: They were growing older and started repeating things from the meetings that I didn’t believe. I realized that I could not teach my personal faith to my kids as it would have been considered apostasy

20

Omg! The latest Caleb and Sophie video!

by nowwhat? in

for those who think the organization is going more mainstream think again.

so eating a leftover birthday cupcake is as bad a sin as peter betraying jesus!

(see lloyd evans video) .

StephaneLaliberte

I find it interesting that the the whole video does not explain WHY they don't celebrate birthdays in the first place. Simply that the bible says so and that the dad will help the son explain it. But where and what reasoning is applied? nothing.

Ridiculous.