Posts by StephaneLaliberte

60

What Will JW's Do If They Find Themselves Still Conscious after Death?

by Sea Breeze in

we all know that despite many scriptures to the contrary, jw's believe that when they die, their consciousness will cease.

my question is this: what will be the likely reaction of jw's if they find themselves conscious after death?.

StephaneLaliberte

They'll say:

Well, looks like I'm anointed afterall!

lol

10

Wise counsel for JW's in latest WT

by BoogerMan in

june 2023 study watchtower p. 13, par 15 - “we will not be fooled if we “make sure of or, “test” all things.”...we need to test what we hear or what we read to determine whether it is genuine.....instead of naively accepting what others the org say, we use our thinking ability to compare what we read or what we hear with what the bible and jehovah’s organization say.”.

StephaneLaliberte

It was advices like this one that lead me out.

When I was a kid, there was a convention where a District Overseer made jokes about an elder turned apostate who wrote a book. Apparently the author stated that it took him 20 years to leave the JWs. To which the District Overseer added: "Well, if it took him 20 years to realize he had been wrong all along, obviously, he's mentally challenged. What an idiot!" And everyone laughed and laughed.

I took note.

I told myself: Before I ever take on any responsibility, I will need to make sure I answer all of my doubts. This is what eventually lead to me leaving.

19

Elder asks my disfellowshipped cousin to leave house while grieving for his grandmother

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

fourteen years ago i started a thread on how horrible my disfellowshipped cousin was treated after his mom passed away and the terrible actions on the part of the elders at the funeral home.. 67. horrible conduct by congregation elders at my cousin's funeral.............. well, here we are 14 years later, and things haven't changed!.

my aunt ( who is my disfellowshipped cousin's grandmother ) was placed in home hospice care.

the nurse told her daughters ( who are jehovah's witnesses and live with their mother ) that their mom probably has 2 days left to live and that they should call the immediate family.. my disfellowshipped cousin and his sister show up in the early morning.

StephaneLaliberte

I sincerely believe that the actions of that elder don't represent the written teachings of the watchtower. I often heard of people not even being told about someone passing away, but THIS. wow!

On the better side, I have seen a couple of WT deaths in which the rules were relaxed to allow a d/f child or grandchild to be there and to mingle with us - until after the funeral anyway.

When one of my disfellowshipped relatives died in a car accident, there were two elders from two different congregations I attended that showed up to the hospital. While we were in a room with our dearly departed, the only one IN the religion was me; everyone else was either disfellowshipped (4), inactive (2) or non JW. One of the elders stayed outside and was nice to anyone who wanted to talk to him. The other one came right into the room, talked with everyone. And since the majority there still, in their hearts, believed in the JW, he prayed for everyone. To this day, I still hold that man in high regards.

Only in the land of Jehovah's Witnesses will you find this disgusting and heartless behavior!

I don't know if its only in the JWs, but one thing for sure, is that even if their writings don't condone the actions of that elder, they still create an environment that enables it. And that's where JWs need to understand that they shouldn't judge their religion solely by their writings but also by the actions of the people making that group. These are the "fruits" that they produce.

I'm also curious: weren't there other JWs in that house? Ministerial Servants? Other elders? I wonder what they thought of all this.

171

Mass Shooting at Kingdom Hall in Hamburg, Germany

by EdenOne in

mass shooting at a kingdom hall in hamburg, germany this evening.

at least 6 or 7 killed, dozens injured.

single shooter on the run, police doesn't rule out more shooters.

StephaneLaliberte

If you believe that God is much greater, both in terms of power but also in understanding and ability to 'read' the heart, mind and motivation of people, then it's no comparison.

If, by reading hearts, God comes to the conclusion that 90% of the human race is beyond redemption, than, there is an issue with statements such as "he created man as his image" and "that he so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son for it."

Regardless, many view that God will destroy people that are not part of their religion, or do not believe this or that. If their view is correct, than God won't judge based on reading hearts and motivations, etc. He will just destroy groups of people based on some broad scoping criteria.

There is no justice in that, only global genocide.

171

Mass Shooting at Kingdom Hall in Hamburg, Germany

by EdenOne in

mass shooting at a kingdom hall in hamburg, germany this evening.

at least 6 or 7 killed, dozens injured.

single shooter on the run, police doesn't rule out more shooters.

StephaneLaliberte

The bible speaks of armageddon where a great deal of people will be destroyed for their wickedness. JWs understand this to mean that the majority of the human population, women, children, young, old, disabled or not, will be killed. After this world wide massacre, a thousand years will go by before there is a second and final massacre to rid humanity of evil, once and for all.

Based on this concept, the shooter felt that Hitler did a small gesture in that direction in trying to get rid of many who, according to JWs belief, would be killed by God at the end times.

People read about the shooter's beliefs and immediately recognize him as unhinged, insane. And yet, they do not question their own beliefs. How can you reconcile a loving and just God to the concept of Armageddon? The world saw and kept records of the monstrosity of the holocaust; the crimes against humanity perpetrated by the Nazis. Why would you judge God any differently for doing something similar on a much greater scale? It's not logical, its.... insane.

Such belief is a stepping block upon which more radicalized beliefs can be built: "If it is God's will to do it eventually and everyone agrees with it, than I could do it now and I'd be doing God's will. Now or later, what's the difference?"

If the human race as a whole viewed the concept of God committing global genocide for what it is, unjust and evil, than radicals, like the shooter, might not be able to make a leap from "here" to "there" and justify horrible actions like he did.

3

Chat GPT and the bible

by StephaneLaliberte in

jw
friends

i just used chat gpt to find scriptures easily and, wow... should i still be a jw, i would have been able to create talks in seconds with that thing.

consider the following question: .

when was jesus accused of violating the sabbath?.

StephaneLaliberte

- deleted

3

Chat GPT and the bible

by StephaneLaliberte in

jw
friends

i just used chat gpt to find scriptures easily and, wow... should i still be a jw, i would have been able to create talks in seconds with that thing.

consider the following question: .

when was jesus accused of violating the sabbath?.

StephaneLaliberte

The link in the the OP, you can sign up for free. Here is the link again: ChatGPT

3

Chat GPT and the bible

by StephaneLaliberte in

jw
friends

i just used chat gpt to find scriptures easily and, wow... should i still be a jw, i would have been able to create talks in seconds with that thing.

consider the following question: .

when was jesus accused of violating the sabbath?.

StephaneLaliberte

I just used Chat GPT to find scriptures easily and, wow... should I still be a JW, I would have been able to create talks in seconds with that thing. Consider the following question:

When was Jesus accused of violating the Sabbath?

Low and behold, Chat GPT summarized three bible passages where that happened, giving me the bible references!

Another application of ChatGPT I did not expect!

18

Answering JW Conversation Stoppers

by Vanderhoven7 in

jws often try to justify their religion as being the only true religion.

questions like.

which other organization is doing this or that?

StephaneLaliberte

1 Corinthians 1:10 does not exist in a vacuum; it has context.

You're right, there is context… consider Paul’s teachings regarding eating things sacrificed to idols, which was common to find in the food markets at the time. He explains that essentially, since other gods didn't exist at all, there was nothing wrong in doing that (1 Corinthians 8:1-6). BUT, for fear of destroying the faith of someone else, you shouldn’t do it (Rom 14:14-23). Now, he didn’t state what the consequence of doing it would be, but the words used in Romains were very clear:

“All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble”.

Reality is that the Society is aligned with Paul on that. The problem is Paul wasn’t aligned with Jesus! Otherwise, Jesus wouldn’t have done anything to stumbled the conscience of so many jews at the time such as violating the Sabbath (Mark 2:23-28, 3:1-6; John 5:1-18). Besides, if rules were so important to Jesus, he would have written several letters and books elaborating on these. But he didn’t. Instead, he walked around, preaching forgiveness and freedom of the heavy burden of the mosaic law as imposed by the pharisees. Paul on the other hand, who was previously a pharisee, fell right back into what Jesus was trying to free the people from: Caring so much about the conscience of others that you create laws that shouldn't be laws at all. And so, Paul went on and wrote more letters (books) in the bible than anyone else, putting in place rules that, were in fact, not based on his belief, but based on the fear of displeasing others.

18

Answering JW Conversation Stoppers

by Vanderhoven7 in

jws often try to justify their religion as being the only true religion.

questions like.

which other organization is doing this or that?

StephaneLaliberte

When I got married, I seriously considered becoming a ministerial servant on the path to being an elder. It would've been easy considering I had a good reputation, I was fairly popular and was able to deliver talks. There was one thing however: I didn't believe everything we thought. At that stage, I rationalized my faith as:

While I don't believe everything we preach, I still believe that as a group, in actions, we're the closest to the true religion.

Still, I found it difficult to publicly teach things I didn't personally believed. I remember that I was often selective with the topics I was covering during the theocratic school, and I knew that if I reached out for more responsibilities, I would not have that luxury of choosing. So, I talked about this with a few Elders and they basically had the same logic:

"When people go to the hall, it is not to listen to you. Most of the time, they don't even know who will deliver what talk. They go to the meetings to hear what the society teaches; you are simply the messenger. So, it doesn’t matter what you personally believe; preach what the people expect from you, preach what the society asks. Anyhow, if you wait long enough, chances are that the society’s beliefs will change your way.”

While I agreed with what they were saying, my motivation wasn’t there. How could I be passionate about possibly preaching things I didn’t believe? I was passionate about showing love and care to one another, caring about the environment, being faithful, etc. I could have made thousands of hours on those topics. But explaining the overlapping generation and be convincing when preaching it? How could I be passionate about that? So, as the years went on, I found excuses not to take on new responsibilities all the while blaming myself for being too proud; not humble enough to accept the role of a WT pawn.

Eventually, almost a decade later, my kids started hearing things at the hall that I didn’t believe. It was at that moment that I realized that I was supposed to teach them these things. If I didn’t, they would eventually realize that I had some “significant” disagreement with the WT and could possibly out me as an apostate! I was growing anxious about the situation and started to look for alternative views. And so, I read Ray Franz’s books in the morning, when riding the train to work. Honestly, I thought that Ray’s books would re-affirm what I already believed; that so and so teachings didn’t make sense. Surprisingly, he focused on Christian love, the very thing that kept me in the JWs. He made me realize that their greatest sin was to lack in that area while trying to hold an organization together. The priority was no longer in the Christian love that should live in each of its members, but the existence and survival of the organization! As a result of that, any disagreement with even the smallest teachings could result in disfellowshipping and ostracism. This is the furthest from Christian love considering that it is impossible to be united in all teachings! JWs have changed their teachings several times through the years. This shows that the Governing Body holds meeting where some of their members express disbelief in current teachings, convinces the other members, resulting in change in theology for the religion. And the question becomes: Why would they be above any of their brothers who would also express similar disagreement? What is more anti-Christian like? Expressing disbelief in a teaching that could very well change or to disfellowship and ostracise the person expressing such doubts; possibly taking away all his friends, family, lively hood, housing and even their own spouse?

When I think of Jesus, I think of his hatred for the pharisees and their mentality that is kept alive by the JWs who are intolerant when it comes to personal Christian conscience and beliefs. Jesus thought personal responsibility for your faith and love and tolerance for others.