Posts by B_Deserter

21

WT in the business of selling cars????

by observador in

i just received an email from a friend with pictures of what seems to be a wt-approved or wt-connected used car business.. this friend is telling us that the cars being sold are those previously used by circuit overseers.

he's giving us some links and pictures, but i haven't had the time to investigate, so i thought to put them up here for discussion.. the web address of the business is, quite appropriately, www.circuitleasing.com.

here are the documents made available by this acquaintance of mine:.

B_Deserter

Isn't it a shame that the Watchtower's car selling website is much higher quality than their religious websites? Seriously, it takes a LOT of time to make a website like this. The society DEFINITELY went to an outside web design company here. There is no way the pimply-faced haxx0rz at bethel could make anything this nice.

21

WT in the business of selling cars????

by observador in

i just received an email from a friend with pictures of what seems to be a wt-approved or wt-connected used car business.. this friend is telling us that the cars being sold are those previously used by circuit overseers.

he's giving us some links and pictures, but i haven't had the time to investigate, so i thought to put them up here for discussion.. the web address of the business is, quite appropriately, www.circuitleasing.com.

here are the documents made available by this acquaintance of mine:.

B_Deserter

Observador, are you from Grand Rapids?

18

What about letters to Michel Moore for documentary?

by tula in

.

we had to stomach knocking.. why can't we get some media exposure on truth about the truth?.

.

B_Deserter

I think Moore isn't really that interested in subjects that affect 0.003% of the country's population. Nevertheless, it would be AWESOME to see him outside Bethel with a megaphone and an ice cream truck.

23

Funny Kingdom Hall Scandals

by lovelylil in

in one hall i was in, we had sister self-righteous.

you know the type, always pointed out how spiritual she is and how much she does for jehovah.

anyway, one time she invited me and my two kids over to swim in her pool on a hot day and i told her i could come but that i had my nephew up from ct for a visit and asked if i could bring him.

B_Deserter

When I was younger a group of sisters in a neighboring hall decided to recruit one of the girls in our hall for their "experimenting." Yes, it's exactly what you think it means. Full-on lesbian orgy. The girl from my hall was traumatized and eventually got surgery and is now a man. S/he did manage to avoid the elders and I don't think s/he was ever dfed.

33

I've reached a turning point in my life

by B_Deserter in

last may, i finally admitted to myself that i am an atheist.

to me, being an atheist means that i don't believe any of the silly nonsense that puny humans have come up with.

many of the religions of man were started during a time when mental illnesses went undiagnosed and misunderstood, a time when man couldn't explain why lightning struck the earth or why rain fell.

B_Deserter

Last May, I finally admitted to myself that I am an atheist. To me, being an atheist means that I don't believe any of the silly nonsense that puny humans have come up with. Many of the religions of man were started during a time when mental illnesses went undiagnosed and misunderstood, a time when man couldn't explain why lightning struck the earth or why rain fell. As I've thought and pondered over things these past months, I couldn't help but realize something when contemplating the beginning of the universe.

The First Law of Thermodynamics states in layman's terms that matter cannot be created nor destroyed. Matter is merely a physical manifestation of energy. Such energy can be released such as in an atomic bomb. The matter is not destroyed, but converted into energy. There is one nagging question in all of this: where did the energy come from? Since it cannot be created, it must have always been here. But the fact that it has always been here flies in the face of what we know about cause and effect. Isaac Asimov's story "The Last Question" delves into the area that I'm contemplating. The end provides a possible explanation for the existence of the universe: The Cosmic AC, a vast computer so advanced that we cannot even comprehend it, finally figured out how to reverse entropy, and created another universe with a command "Let there be light." Now, obviously that's just a story but it is also an amazing concept. But, let me get back to the universe itself.

The general theory of the beginning of the universe is that it sprang from a "big bang." Now, the universe might very well have arisen from such an explosion, and there is some evidence supporting that conclusion, but something had to be there to explode. My question is: where did THAT thing come from? Something had to have caused it. No matter what explanation anybody can come up with, it requires pre-existing elements in order to work. Since it is unreasonable to say that those elements spontaneously generated out of nothing, something had to have (pardon the term) created it. So then, you have a creator to explain, then you have the creator's creator to explain. It is an infinite loop that can go on for infinity. It was then I realized, there HAS to be something that started it all, an ultimate cause. The First Law of Thermodynamics cannot be correct, or rather, there must have been a time when it was not correct.

I did some reading up on what philosophy would best fit with my feelings, and found none. Although, Deism came close. To get a few things straight:

I do not necessarily believe that this "creator" was an intelligent being, but it is just as possible a force of some kind
I do not believe that this creative force is concerned about the lives we live on earth or that it necessarily is even aware of us or even "alive"
I do not believe that this creative force needs prayer and worship from us
I still believe in the natural laws that govern our universe now, however I do not believe that these laws have always been in effect, as we have a universe full of energy whose existence defies those very laws.
I don't believe this creative force is directly responsible for life on earth, nor that it "guided" evolution.
I don't believe this creative force is some sort of cosmic "watch-winder" who set all the physical laws purposely for our benefit.

Confused yet? I know I am. To sum it all up, I believe that the universe was created by something eternal. It wasn't a "God" or anything human beings can even comprehend. It probably wasn't even intelligent, but merely something that existed without a cause that was able to be the cause of the sum of all the energy in the universe (and possibly multiverse). I guess that makes me an Atheist Deist if you really want to classify me.

171

Have you changed your mind about ABORTION?

by nicolaou in

i'm not after a discussion on the rights or wrongs on abortion, what i'm asking is whether or not your views have evolved over time.. perhaps leaving the watchtower was enough to allow your true feelings on abortion to find expression.

maybe abortion is one of those subjects where you still find yourself in agreement with your old jw self.

did becoming a mother change your perspective in any way or solidify your views?.

B_Deserter

llbh,

Imagine two people robbing a bank. One runs and manages to get away and the other person goes to prison. Was it wrong that the person who got caught was sent to prison simply because the other person got away with it? Aren't women "empowered" now? Don't women have just as much choice to jump in the sack as the men do now?

23

Do you think God is a Liar?

by BONEZZ in

i've struggled with trying to believe in a god since i left the fold.

i've been indoctrinated by dubizm for most of my life and more and more it all seems pretty incredulous.

the latest lady liberty post about adam caused a lightbulb to go off...and i know you'll let me know if i'm wrong in my assessment.. all my life i've heard, "god cannot tell a lie" and "the bible is true.

B_Deserter

I don't believe God exists, therefore something that doesn't exist cannot be a liar or anything at all.

171

Have you changed your mind about ABORTION?

by nicolaou in

i'm not after a discussion on the rights or wrongs on abortion, what i'm asking is whether or not your views have evolved over time.. perhaps leaving the watchtower was enough to allow your true feelings on abortion to find expression.

maybe abortion is one of those subjects where you still find yourself in agreement with your old jw self.

did becoming a mother change your perspective in any way or solidify your views?.

B_Deserter

Even though I'm now an atheist, I'm still not pro-choice. If it's a situation where the pregnancy is threatening the life of the mother and/or the child, then abortion should be acceptable. In situations where the mother doesn't feel she is ready to handle the child, she should give it up for adoption. I don't think it's debatable that at a certain point in the pregnancy, the child becomes a living person. I have no problem with "morning after" pills and birth control because a cluster of cells is not a person. What really needs to be done is find out when during a pregnancy does the cluster of cells transition into a conscious person. When we figure that out, abortions before that date should be legal, and after that date considered murder.

I've seen too many women have abortions simply for selfish reasons. If you do the crime, you should do the time, period.

13

I'm So Happy!! A NEVER Give Up Hope Story

by onesong in

like most everyone here, i had a painful yet liberating exiting of the org.. one of the most difficult parts was saying goodbye to a dear friend.

he couldn't believe that i no longer was a "believer", and during our last conversation 3 years ago, he ran out in tears extremely upset.

i told him that i would always love him and thought there was a good chance that that was the last time i'd ever talk to him.. however last week......he called me!!!!.

B_Deserter

Believe me, it sure is a good thing he has you as a friend. If I had contact with just one good friend outside the org., it would be amazing how fast i'd be turning in my DAing letter.

83

Why I dont go along with the "happiness" crowd

by Junction-Guy in

jw
friends

the old saying "happiness is the best revenge", to me that is the most rubbing statement i can ever hear right now.. .

someone mentioned that jw's dont think anyone can have true happiness outside of their religion, i dont necessarily buy this.. .

when someone is happy inside the borg, they say its jehovah's blessing, when someone is happy outside the borg they say that satan is blessing them.

B_Deserter

I think you have a point, but I don't think saying that "living well is the best revenge" is diminishing the negative effects some people go through. You have to realize that not all Ex-JWs are as scarred as some of us here are. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that most of them aren't. Some people can just pick up the pieces and move on after JW-dom much easier than others. My cousin for example was raised in the religion, but ended up rejecting it in high school. His twin brother rejected it even earlier. I remember one day my mom asked my cousin, "Dan, isn't your life horrible that you've left the truth?" He looked baffled, and replied "ummmm, no." That day was pivotal for me. I learned that it was possible to be happy on the outside.

There are three types of Ex-JWs
1. Never really that into the church. Always kept worldly friends and always had a way out. Mostly, the rebellious children raised in a JW family that leave in their teens fall into this group.
2. The disfellowshipped who still believe it's the truth, but feel like they can't live up to the "high moral standard." They either have resigned themselves to destruction at armageddon or are working to be reinstated.
3. The once-hardcore-but-disillusioned. That's us for the most part. We were really into the church, followed society doctrine by the letter. Then, we crossed the line that most rank-n-file won't: applying the Watchtower's judgements of other religions to Jehovah's Witnesses themselves, only to find them lacking. We're either trying to fade, left the org. for intellectual reasons (disagreements with doctrine), or were disfellowshipped unjustly. Since the religion was our entire life, much more so than our contemporaries, it's loss naturally affects us in a completely different (and much more severe) way.

The main difference between "us" and "them" is that "they" can mentally go back to the church. "We," on the other hand, can't, not with what we know.