Posts by Francois

24

Science vs. Spirituality?

by Sunchild in

jw
friends

i originally posed this question to jh in another thread, and now i'm wondering how other atheists -- especially the hardcore ones -- here would answer it.

this isn't about proving or disproving any particular viewpoint, but just an attempt to understand a mindset that seems... well... beyond my understanding.

<g> first, though, here are a couple of terms defined as used in the context of my inquiry.. science: the objective study of the natural world.. spirituality: an intangible aspect of nature/the universe (including humanity) that may or may not include belief in any deity, but which is merely a general sense that something more is out there, and also within us.

Francois

Sunchild, ditto baby, let's get together and oscillate antennae!!

Seriously, It all started with the "Crack in the Cosmic Egg" and it's been a slide ever since. I really am convinced that sooner or later penetration through quantuum physics will disclose that there is only one particle of matter at the root of all things material. I was so disappointed when the congress refused to go for the superconducting supercollider in Texas. I was certain that machine would disclose the existence of the "ultimaton." Oh well.

But I've spent so much of my time in the study of material science vs spirituality and there's so few who are interested in discussing it. I'm convinced that is where the dichotomy between science and religion will finally be resolved.

And some of the posters here speaking about the "feeling" or "intuition" of spirituality while at the same time mistaking science for an activity that discovers "truth." Science does no such thing. Science offers models that may explain various phenomena, and any scientist possessing intellectual integrity quickly admits it. Scientists will also say that they could come up with "other models" to explain reality, they just haven't done it yet!

We must get together and discuss this sometime. Your lab or mine?

Francois

23

Newcomer - Old hand retiring from JW's

by Celtic in

hello to onen hag oll (one and all).. my name is mark from the westcountry of the british isles, kernow (cornwall) to be precise, very, very rugged and magical celtic country full of myth, legends and ancient magic.. i was brought up within the borgy bogie balderdash, 3rd generation, father, wt overseer and local and regional assembly, convention organiser.

my parents are still both in as well as my older sister and her family.

i was disfellowshipped in april 1995 for anger and swearing.. the journey since has been a tour of magic and mystery, in search of healing and self-belief and empowerment enabling.. i work in community regeneration issues, especially social exclusion and am a full member of independent uk government 'think tank' the community action network (can) www.can-online.org.uk.

Francois

Two streams is it? By golly, I've never met the woman who'd believe it, so I never bring it up. But it's real alright.

ft

166

BRITS v YANKS

by nicolaou in

jw
friends

brits v yanks.

this is just for laughs, but let's be honest us brits are most definately ahead of our 'cousins' across the water in the credibility stakes.. i'll kick us off and see where we go;.

[1] the beautiful game.. it's called football.

Francois

Your savior and greatest genius, Winston Churchill, (my hero and a Great Man), who stood alone in the breach face-to-face with the world's most terrifying criminally insane leader and saved your asses, was half American, therefore:

YANKS WIN HANDS DOWN

(Although after that description of pub ale, I'm willing to give you second place)

Francois

43

New Congregation

by Deacon in

jw
friends

ok. we ran a thread recently about starting a new religion.. how about we start an international congregation here on the board.. we need 7 elders.

7 being a sign of perfection..er....yeah.. we need ministerial servants.. appointments will be general concensus..er holy spirit i mean.. p.o.

lets start with him.

Francois

Um, I think we should arrange for a worship service that includes sex and marijuana. Maybe even blood. And we should end each service by all facing Brooklyn and having our chief elderatrix wave a dead chicken at the Borg's printing plant.

16

Do u believe in God??

by JW72 in

jw
friends

hi everyone, i don't know if i believe in god or not.. can someone give me a really convincing reason why to believe in him or not.. or is it just down to faith???.

faith in god is a bit like playing the lottery.. you have to sacrifice 1 a week, but you might just win.

you may as well, it's not much of a sacrifice, infact it helps people (lottery money helps projects/investments), but the prize is well worth winning.. anyone like my anallergy (is that how you spell it?).

Francois

I believe in God. But I also believe that the existence of God is impossible of proof; that proof that he does not exist is likewise impossible.

As is stated in the Tao Te Ching, the God whose existence you can prove is not God.

Yes. It's a matter of faith.

Francois

32

I'm a new study, unsure a little uncertain. Help??

by Meow921 in

i recently started doing some studying of jehovahs witnesses, and i find most everything so logical, and the people involved have been so nice to me.

i'm 30, and currently am not associated with any denomination.. what i don't understand is how the word "cross" got translated into the bible if it's not right.

aren't we supposed to believe the bible?.

Francois

Kathrine, I would like to speak to you from the heart as a former member of the board of directors of an organization dedicated to helping former Jehovah's Witnesses reclaim their lives.

Many of these good people had lost their mates over disagreements with the Watchtower Organization. They had also lost their friends. But the common thread through all my association and assistance of people who were leaving Jehovah's Witnesses was loss.

I'm sure someone here must have recommend that you read Ray Franz' book, "Crisis of Conscience." I certainly hope that you do.

I'd also like to recommend that you read, "The True Believer" by Eric Hoffer. It's a book about mass movements whether they are religious, political, social, etc.

Please be very careful and go very slowly in your study with the Witnesses. They are NOT what they appear to be. And once you've been baptised, there is NO honorable way for you to leave the organization.

While this religion of authority may impart a present feeling of settled security, you will pay for such a transient satisfaction the price of the loss of your spiritual freedom and religious liberty. God does not require of you as the price of entering the kingdom of heaven that you should force yourself to subscribe to a belief in things which are spiritually repugnant, unholy, and untruthful. He does not require of you that your own sense of mercy, justice, and truth should be outraged by submission to an organization of men and their fanciful teachings, like the ones you already question.

If you think you disagree with things now, wait until you discover all of what they're not telling you now that you will be expected to fully embrace later.

This is your life you are dealing with, your future happiness with your husband, and perhaps later - children. Please be careful. Why do you think all these people are here on this site? Why did they leave the JWs? To freely sin? Look around you; do you really believe that?

Please feel free to email direct to me if you like.

Francois

4

Amount of Time Not Speaking to You

by Larry in

jw
friends

question to all ex-jw's whose family refuse to have contact with them - how long has it been since the last time your relative(s) spoke to you or had any meaningful communication w/ you?

it's been over a year since my mother, sisters, cousins and aunts had any real communication with me.

i've read a post last week and i think someone said it's been over 20 years since one of their relatives spoke to them!

Francois

There were members of my family - the closest ones - that did not speak to me for 16 years. And I don't understand why they do so now.

There is at least one person who was my best friend, or so I thought, who has not spoken to me in 24 years. I guess he's gone for good.

Francois

59

Blood, The Watchtower and Deceit

by Maximus in

jw
friends

while much attention is given to doctrine in sites such as this, very little is noted about the watchtower societys intellectual dishonesty in its publications, especially when it comes to quotations.. oftentimes the societys writers will cite a scholar or author of some repute: "professor blank observes that blah, blah, blah.

" the reader assumes from the quotation that professor blank is in agreement with the organizations position, of course, and that the quotation chosen accurately depicts the authors thoughts.. heres the catch: the words between the quotation marks may be accurate, but the snippet may not at all faithfully represent someones actual thesis or position.

much like a newspaper ad for a movie that quotes a reviewer as saying "monumental!

Francois

To drive a thumbtack in this very interesting thread, have you also noticed that in one publication Tertullian is referred to as a "christian writer" and in some other publications, he is villified?

5

What's wrong with sympathy??

by JW72 in

jw
friends

i just wanna repeat what i said before about the fact that i feel sorry for women putting up with what they go through.. i know from my girlfriend that the period means 3 even 4 days of not feeling good, sometimes really painful.. i think it's fine for me to feel bad about that.. i don't feel sorry for women on a whole or think that they can't cope, i just think that what they go through is unfair, especially if it was god's intention!!.

sorry if anyone was offended (tina included).. i'm glad i'm a guy coz i don't think i'd be so happy to put up with it.. i love women,.

chris

Francois

Of course you're right JW72, there's nothing wrong with sympathy. But apparently you must express it in just the right way, or you may be guilty of some sort of ritual error in the arena of political correctness (about which I could not care less).

I was attempting to make my own point about our common problems. And of course any and all are perfectly free to make of it what they will whether or not THEY get the point.

Francois

32

Biology Lesson for the gals

by Francois in

jw
friends

elsewhere in the active topics list is a great post from wasasister dealing in a very wise manner with women's hormonal cycle.

the viewpoint and outlook contained in her post was to my mind very well done, thoughtful, considerate, and made a number of points that would be helpful to keep in mind in dealing with the male/female dynamic.. so i hope (and believe) that wasa won't mind if i use her post to springboard to one of my own - the mirror image of hers.. wasa makes a very good point in saying that women are jerked around by the hormones in their blood every month.

and lots of us know at least one woman whose pms reaches truly epic proportions.

Francois

pmf, you're right of course, I guess that from my conservative perspective Ms. Paglia seems pretty liberal. Actually, I'm more libertarian than conservative, especially now that Bush has pushed through that so-called tax cut. He sneaks it in at such a niggardly pace, and it goes away completely in ten years, y'know.

Joel, I don't mean that we're going to get to another planet via mechanical devices, I mean that we're going there via the spiritual realm as creatures of a different dimension. Of course, if you're an atheist, you don't get to play that game in this life on this planet, but I think you'd be there anyway. Because you don't believe in God doesn't mean he doesn't believe in you.

Best,
Frank