Posts by freeman

40

"You Should Not Even Eat With Any Such Person".

by Englishman in

jw
friends

example 1. ray franz was disfellowshipped for being seen eating a meal whilst sat at a table with a disfellowshipped person.

example 2. i was recently told by my customer's jw secretary that she was sorry but she could not make me a cup of tea because it was against her witness principles to drink / eat with a df'd person.

yet, i think i understand now what the scripture at 1 corinthians 5.

freeman

Englishman, I’m afraid I’m a far cry from a “biblical scholar” (I’m just a computer guy), that said I do know more then most dubs about most biblical subjects. That’s not due to me being particularly knowledgeable, I’m not; it’s due to the average dub being so completely ignorant of the life, customs, beliefs, and practices of the early church.

The average dub has no understanding of the practices of early Christians and how far removed they themselves are removed from such. Early Christians absolutely did not go to people’s homes uninvited. To do so would have been disrespectful to the highest degree. They met in the homes of believers, not strangers. You would not know this from the twisting of the scriptures via the NWT. And without knowing the details of the two forms of worship (public and private) practiced by the early Christians, you would not know the importance of the “meal” with regard to worship and which was to not be engaged in with persons removed from the congregation.

In the case of Ray Franz, i.e. the “meal” he had with his boss and then used as a basis to dis-fellowship him, is in fact not the type of worship meal referred to by the words "not even eating with . . .". I will leave it for other true scholars to cite the proper sources to back this up. (I used to have a listing of citations but I can’t seem to find them at this time).

PS: the dyslexia is really kicking in today so please overlook any typo’s or disjointed sentences, I can’t see the errors so I can’t correct them.

Freeman

19

Those with mates still in

by tech 597 in

jw
friends

i got home a little late from work this evening, and my wife was getting ready for the bookstudy.

she was quite happy and we began to discuss the days activities.

things were going great.

freeman

Having a mate that is still in when you are not is not easy. Unfortunately I know this first hand. For a while, my wife kept a glimmer of hope that her “weak” and inactive husband would someday gain a renewed interest it the fine spiritual food being served. She would come back from the meetings telling me about various people who asked how I was doing, and how they missed me. I would say to myself: why didn’t these friends just come over for a normal visit, why does friendship and concern need to be joined at the hip with religious indoctrination?

I have two particular weaknesses, and she knows them well. They are good BBQ and good hard driving, keep jamming till the cops bust down the door rock-n-roll / soulful down in the dirt blues. I don’t just enjoy listening, I like, (make that love) playing too. I play several instruments, and so she has in the past used an effective BBQ / Jam session ploy to get me to some gatherings, and even sometimes to the meeting that proceeds the gathering. She would say, "so and so is having a gathering at his house after the meeting, everyone is bringing a dish and they will be firing-up the grill". "Oh and I think a lot of the brothers will be bringing their instruments; I bet they could use a good drummer or another guitarist". "Remember how much fun you had the last time"?

That ploy has indeed worked in the past, but now fortunately or unfortunately (depends how you look at it) I am never asked to any more gatherings. I think my wife knows that at this point I would much rather have all my teeth pulled out with pliers, and have all the skin ripped from my body, and my eyes gouged out with a power drill then do anything remotely promoting or participating in the activities of this cult.

However, this new understanding she now has about my true feelings comes at considerable cost. Regrettably she just can’t see the dichotomy between my feelings respecting the Dark and Evil Tower itself and the genuine affection I continue to have for the individual members trapped in this cult. A because of this, my wife and I live very separate lives. We share part of our lives together and under the same roof, but much of the substantive components that make a true and joyous relationship have now and forever been vanquished.

And to think that a free home Bible study could have cost so much is almost unimaginable, but it indeed has.

Freeman

40

Were You Successful In The Ministry?

by minimus in

jw
friends

i know of very few people that helped bring people in the "truth".

even those who concentrated on their own families usually realize that their children do not want the "truth".

most publishers were disorganized with regard to their return visits and house-to-house records.

freeman

I was very successful; I never converted anyone. Thank God!

Freeman

51

Interesting Tidbits

by Xena in

jw
friends

after reading the thread about posing in the nude, i was suprised to see how many people on here had done that....made me start to wonder what other interesting tidbits (hence the title of this thread) i didn't know about my fellow posters.

so what interesting or unusual thing have you done or been or seen in your life?

posed in the nude?

freeman

You could say I had some unusual experiences.

In the 80’s I did some undercover work for the federal government, and that was a lot of fun, however things didn’t always go so good because one time they got me mixed up with the real bad guys that I was monitoring for the government.

I once had my phone lines tapped, my phone records seized by the FBI, and I have even been followed by the DEA. All that was lots of fun, NOT! Connected with this stuff was something that happened to one of my contacts in Germany. The poor SOB had gasoline poured on him and was set on fire like a big torch. As it turns out he was an operative of the KGB and when the KGB was done with him, I guess they decided they didn’t want to leave any loose ends. (Note to self: Don’t ever work for organizations that have a really bad retirement plan. ) If anyone wants me to, I can try and scan a copy of the small newspaper article that talked about who this poor SOB was was and how he died. Just let me know.

Anyway, I don’t do that sort of stuff anymore, but inside, part of me sometimes wants to get back in the game, especially since 9/11. But then I think about my family, and just how scary some of this stuff was at the time. Even though it all worked out OK in the end, it was a nightmare I do not wish to ever repeat. Trust me, you do not want to ever be on the business end of the FBI!

I know the smart move now is for me to keep doing what I do, play with computers and keep them running for the FAA. Now I’m just a computer guy, and that’s all I aspire to be, but boy oh boy I sure will have some stories for the grandkids!

Freeman

23

Do You Consider Yourself An Honest Person?

by minimus in

jw
friends

many jw's can lie and feel that they are only using "theocratic stratergy".

some people are extremely above board and any thought of lying would not ever be considered.

some feel that they are very honest but would still cheat on taxes if they could get away with it.

freeman

I consider myself pretty honest, but I believe all things are relative; there are no absolutes IMHO.

In my previous vocation I had the opportunity to steal large sums of money with very little chance of ever being caught.

For many years it was my job to test the security of sensitive and critical systems by trying to hack into them without detection. I was often quite successful. This included payroll computers and government computers transferring millions of dollars. It’s kind of cool having a payroll computer put your name on a real check in the amount you choose. Yet I never once used my knowledge to steal, the challenge is the reward, not the potential money. Sometimes it not the lack of opportunity or the fear of being caught that makes people honest, sometimes it’s just the way they are.

All that said, it is also quite true that sometimes I bring home a pen or two from the office without even thinking about it. I guess I’m a bit quirky that way.

Freeman

17

Dino cancer

by peacefulpete in

i have been reading about dinosaurs and other contemporaneous animals and have repeatedly encountered examples of physical malformation (diseased or deformed bone and teeth)and evidence of bone cancer over 100 million years ago.

does this not refute the position held by jws that disease resulted from adam's sin?

comments?

freeman

Demar: I won’t tell you what or whatnot to believe that is up to you, however you do owe it to yourself to examine the source of this information you are getting. Upon closer examination, you may find it is just a tad less then: accurate, unbiased, and for that matter scientific.

As an aside, don’t you think it was very clever of God to make salt water and fresh water fish and somehow preserve both types during the flood when all water was mixed together, and then put all the thousands of different types of little fishes back in their natural environment again after the flood was over? I’ll bet there were both fresh and salt-water tanks on the Arc. I also thought that it was pretty clever of God to equip so many herbivores with the ability to deliver lethal poison just in case one day they had to become carnivores. I guess God looked into the future and saw the need down the road.

Freeman

17

Dino cancer

by peacefulpete in

i have been reading about dinosaurs and other contemporaneous animals and have repeatedly encountered examples of physical malformation (diseased or deformed bone and teeth)and evidence of bone cancer over 100 million years ago.

does this not refute the position held by jws that disease resulted from adam's sin?

comments?

freeman

Free Will: Do the fade thing and don’t pay to much attention to anyone’s words, particularly mine. The literal Adam and Eve creation /sin passed on to all descendants idea as presented by the Watchtower was always a sore point with me and one in which I always had to never completely level with myself intellectually because to do so could damage my entire belief system, the JW belief system that is. Remember, the JW belief system is inflexible and all knowing, and any deviation from that “present truth” is viewed with suspicion.

The validity of your particular belief system or non-belief has nothing to do with intellect or education whatsoever. What matters is what makes you comfortable and what seems to be correct from your point of view at a particular moment in time. For me, I feel that being a moral person, avoiding doing harm to others whenever possible, and trying to leave this world a little better then I found it is fundamental to my current belief system. What does that make me? If that makes me a Christian, that’s fine with me; if it makes me a Buddhist, that’s OK too. That said however, I won’t be saddled by a particular label.

I don’t like labels because I associate labels with the exclusive club mentality that often seems to accompany such membership. I did myself and my family great harm by joining a club that turned out to be a really bad one. Obviously I am not very good at choosing clubs. And because of my poor track record, I don’t want to be a member of any club at this time. That’s just me and my way of doing it, and what is good for you may be completely different. I wish you peace and success in your journey to find the truth.

Freeman

17

Dino cancer

by peacefulpete in

i have been reading about dinosaurs and other contemporaneous animals and have repeatedly encountered examples of physical malformation (diseased or deformed bone and teeth)and evidence of bone cancer over 100 million years ago.

does this not refute the position held by jws that disease resulted from adam's sin?

comments?

freeman

Wow that was a close one, eh Dino. Glad to here you escaped that one.

A few weeks ago we had to put the family dog to sleep as she had incurable cancer, in fact her swollen glands in her neck were making it very difficult for her to breath and eat.

She was a purebred black lab with a wonderful personality. She was completely black except around her chin as her hairs were starting to turn gray in recent years. Long before we knew the dog was sick, I used this living example to plant a seed in the mind of my devoutly Dub wife by asking a simple question: Why do you suppose animals get gray hair when they get older and even die of the same aliments people die of? She look at me dumbfounded and said she never thought of that.

I guess when Adam sinned, his DNA was damaged and it was passed on to his offspring, and since all the animals living back then were essentially the Adam and Eve family pets, their DNA was also effected too. Yep I’m sure that’s how it happened.

I wonder if one day the light will suddenly go on and she will see the folly at the root of this myth. I doubt it, but one can always hope.

Freeman

40

I attended my first meeting at a KH!!

by playdrums in

for the memorial service i went with my girlfriend.

she's the jw.

i also brought my best friend.

freeman

Playdrums: I very much enjoyed your comments. It’s refreshing to hear what an obviously intelligent and articulate outsider such as yourself thinks of the JW proceedings. From a Christian perspective, I’ll bet you must see what transpired or rather what didn’t transpire, as nothing less then blasphemous. Such a scripted display of enforced non-participation in something meant for everyone is in essence a mocking of the Christian Communion itself, would you not agree?

I am happy you have your wits about you and that you see this sham for what it is, I am however sad that the same is not true for your girlfriend. Perhaps you can help her find her way out; I’m still working on my wife, there is always hope.

Freeman

32

Hows come I wanna just sit on my ass today and do nothin?

by gumby in

jw
friends

well my job cancelled today....it's raining and cold, my back is sore, and i'm in a good mood.. heres the problem,.

my sweet little wife wants to do re-do our floors(old wood under the carpet ), and wants to re-finish them.

i was all set for the weekend to start......but i've got today off and .....well.....there's no reason i shouldn't start now and get up off my butt.......but remember it's raining, my back is sore, and i'm having fun doing this right now.

freeman

I’m here to support you Gumby, ya poor lazy bastard!

My story: I’m at work, the computers are running fine so I don’t have to do anything work wise, my boss is not in today and I’m all alone so I have all the time in the world to do anything I want.

However, I have a very intimidating 900-page psychology book sitting in front of me busting my balls. What I should be doing is working on a very hard paper due this Friday in which I am supposed to contrast Spearman’s model of intelligence and Gardners’s multiple intelligences (oh the joy).

Wait it gets better; it has to be in a format acceptable to the American Psychological Association even though it will never be published by the APA or anyone else for that matter. Soooo just what am I doing as the deadline approaches?

I am reading all the posts at JWD (and responding to yours) when I should be up off my lazy ass writing a paper comparing the thoughts of dead psychologists to each other (God knows the fate of humanity and the continuance of life as we know it depends upon this).

And what will happen should I get off my lazy ass and complete this task? Well I believe that then the aforementioned *&^%**! paper will make it’s way to someone that will grade it, point out the numerous errors I have made (making sure that I understand this assignment was in fact child’s play to someone of his intellect and stature) thus having the net effect lowering my grade average. Said &*%^#$! worthless paper will then be placed in a metallic cylindrical device awaiting final transport to a landfill. And no I’m not going to recycle, if I’m getting a shitty grade it’s going in the regular garbage!

So there you go Gumby, you’re not the only lazy bastard around here. We poor lazy bastards must all stick together.

Freeman (poor lazy bastard class)