Posts by Awakened07

43

Do you still love the Bible?

by senoj53 in

as a jw i was brought up to believe the bible was the word of god, didn't contradict itself and could answer all our questions.

i loved the bible and took the words of proverbs 2 literally, where it says if you call out for undestanding and search for it you will find the very knowledge of god.

i studied the bible as jw's recomend, but found that it left me with more questions than answers and this eventually led me out of the "truth," as i discovered many contradictions in both the hebrew and the greek scriptures and instances where the apostle paul even contradicts jesus words.. in the most important event of bible history, (the death of jesus) the gospel writers can't even agree on the sequence of events and who he appeared to first after his resurrection.

Awakened07

Personally I had much the same experience you did, so no, I can't say I love the Bible anymore (if I ever did). I can still respect some of it, I can still think some of it are good stories with a message... but that's basically it for me.

There are several people here that still have Bible based faiths though.

I would write more but I'm a little exhausted after work. Maybe I'll join in later in the thread. Will be interesting to get the perspective of those who still believe in it.

[edited] Forgot to say Hi and welcome to the forum! [/edited]

26

Yet another pathetic witness E-Mail

by darth frosty in

but it's worth another read because it can be a much needed reminder.

we're all running in the same race, we're here to help each other.. .

subject: jehovah will never let go.

Awakened07

Hmm... Come to think of it (and I'm not being an a-hole here), I really can't recall a moment where I could say "Yes, Jehovah is holding on to me and won't let me go!". How does he do that, btw? By giving us "food at the proper time" through the literature? No other way?

I used to pray to Jehovah for a deeper understanding and answers to my questions (and that was back when I would still pray in a sincere manner). I guess I should thank him for the answers. Evidently, Jehovah is an atheist or at least an agnostic, based on what he showed me. Maybe that's his problem; lack of self confidence? Maybe he needs to believe more in himself. Maybe then he wouldn't be such a 'jealous God' who smites people left and right.

9

As terrible as my life seems at times, it could always be so much worse!

by sweetface2233 in

take a look at this!

and, i complain about having missed out on christmas for 20 years.. .

Awakened07

Hmm... I don't know. Why would they cut into his face?

-Behind the ear and over the scalp to the other side yes, or down the side of his neck from one ear - but in his face?

I kinda doubt this.

20

Christians: Why are we here (earth) in the first place?

by Awakened07 in

jw
friends

another thread here reminded me of something i used to wonder about while i was still an active jw, and haven't really thought about until now that i was reminded of it again.. - this is probably a very banal question, but (the premise comes first):.

-god created a myriad of angels in heaven before he created our universe and earth, right?.

-and - except for those who rebelled - they are all still up there, right?.

Awakened07

Terry wrote:
I remember suddenly having an epiphany when I realized that "Christianity" is not a single, monolithic thing.
It is many things defined and practiced many ways; most of which are mutually exclusive to each other!

I initially didn't get exactly what you were saying in your post Terry, but after the (few) Christians here had replied, I understood.

I genuinely have always wanted this question answered, but I think perhaps my "definition" (or view) of what a 'Christian' is and what they believe was wrong.

To make an analogy:

Reading the replies, I feel like I was once the owner of a gasoline-driven car with a V8 engine, but there's something that's been bugging me about how the carburetor of other types of cars work, and I go online and ask "Car owners: describe how your carburetor works." and the kind of reply I get is: "Well, I've only had two cars; the first was direct fuel injection and the other was electric, so I don't think carburetors have anything to do with cars. Anyway, the fuel injection on my gasoline-driven car works like this:....." I expected owners of older, gasoline-driven cars with a carburetor to reply, and those were the people I wanted an answer from, but it turns out cars "ain't what they used to be", and my definition of a 'car owner' (or a car) was wrong.

OK - making good analogies in a hurry is hard...

I guess the kind of Christian I was addressing was the likes of a pastor in an episcopalian church, or priest in a catholic or protestant church, or... But not the 'modern' kind of Christian, where reincarnation, pre-earth life as spirit-beings etc. are "allowed".

So now I'm afraid I'll never get the question answered (by the kind of Christian I was expecting to reply). Can't really ask a question to 'Christians' and expect to get one answer when each and every one has their own opinion of the core beliefs.

But maybe that (the myriad of views) is a good thing? Growing up a JW, differing opinions was never a good thing. I don't know.

I think the premise was quite simple; angels exist, mankind becomes angels, therefore, what's the point in some being born and die here first before becoming an angel. Is this a premise that would be faulty to all Christians?

I did expect it to be easily answered, because - as I saw it - this must be something that has been resolved by Christianity several hundred years ago, since it's such an obvious (to me, at least) "strangeness", and perhaps contradiction. Which is why I called it a banal question.

20

Christians: Why are we here (earth) in the first place?

by Awakened07 in

jw
friends

another thread here reminded me of something i used to wonder about while i was still an active jw, and haven't really thought about until now that i was reminded of it again.. - this is probably a very banal question, but (the premise comes first):.

-god created a myriad of angels in heaven before he created our universe and earth, right?.

-and - except for those who rebelled - they are all still up there, right?.

Awakened07

Another thread here reminded me of something I used to wonder about while I was still an active JW, and haven't really thought about until now that I was reminded of it again.

- This is probably a very banal question, but (the premise comes first):

-God created a myriad of angels in Heaven before He created our universe and earth, right?

-And - except for those who rebelled - they are all still up there, right?

-And - when a human being dies, he/she either goes to Heaven, or Hell, right (not all of you believe in Hell, I guess, but Heaven's what's important here) ?

(I guess I shouldn't take these points as a given, but...)

-So - the question becomes:

-Why were some angels created directly in Heaven, while other 'angels' have to live a life as physical, imperfect beings here on earth first, before they can become angels after death? Why create an entire physical universe when He could just as well have created us all as angels directly in the beginning in the spiritual realm? What will be the difference between the angels who were created directly 'in the beginning' as angels, and those who have lived a life on earth first? Will the ones coming from earth have a lower rank in Heaven than those who have been there all along? Or will they be given a higher rank, because they had to live through and endure all the cr*p here first? Or will they all be the same?

It boggled my mind before, and - with these above assumptions intact - still does.

13

Those of you who remained religious after leaving JWs:

by Awakened07 in

jw
friends

i was just curious how that transition was?

did you simply start attending some other church right away?

if so, how did you choose which church to attend?

Awakened07

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure where I was going with this - I just wanted to hear how people came to a different conclusion than I did, I guess.

25

This Board is REFRESHING!

by freefromthewt in

jw
friends

even tho some of you will think i'm making this up- i'm not!-.

walking next to the river, thinking & praying on these matters, i compared the spirit displayed here and on other boards, and realized it is heightening my bond and respect for my brotherhood!

also, i started playing 'what if' with what i have always considered some of our 'goofy speculation of prophecy' - such as the small, little better than a church group, band of what eventually became the first jws released from prison in 1919...what if - as ridiuculous as it sounds- it was true!.

Awakened07

I compared the spirit displayed here and on other Boards, and realized it is heightening my bond and respect for my Brotherhood!
After seeing the Hateful and obscene pretense at Faith by many- I am now starting to think FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME that it just might be true!

On first glance, the JW 'brotherhood' may seem comfortably friendly and united, smiling and loving and nonthreatening, while forums like this may at times come across as harsh, bewildered, misguided, hateful, etc. The reason is that this place (and others) is the starting point for many after leaving the JWs. Some are angry at the organization, some have come to hate the God of the Bible, some don't believe at all anymore, some don't know what to think or do, some are a little 'giddy' at the thought of being absolutely free to post whatever they like now, and may go overboard with it. No one here claims to have the Truth that all the others should follow as well, so there won't be much unity in that sense.

Everyone here is free to make up their own mind. There are no ready-made Answers. This can be seen as bewilderment, disunity, and people being misguided, when you're still a JW. The love, togetherness, unity and comfort of the 'brotherhood' is superficial, though. It lasts for just as long as you don't ask questions there aren't answers to, or at least don't ask them in public. This creates the apparent 'unity' of 'brothers'. This also creates a 'brotherhood' of people who are trapped into thinking exactly the same as all the others. It's all fun and games until it happens to you; suddenly you have a question you can't find an answer to (within the org.). When one has believed for a long time that there are absolute Answers and Truth, and that it can be had from one group only, it's easy to think of going back there - it's a comforting thought. "Wow - when I was there, everything was so simple, I had all the answers. Out here, there's just confusion." You played the 'What if' game. -What if there are no Absolute Answers? No Absolute Truth? It's a scary thought at first.

To quote Awake!:

Do Not Be a Victim of Propaganda!

"A fool will believe anything." —PROVERBS
14:15, TODAY'S ENGLISH
VERSION.

THERE is a difference - a big difference - between education and
propaganda. Education shows you how to think. Propaganda tells
you what to think. Good educators present all sides of an issue and
encourage discussion. Propagandists relentlessly force you to hear
their view and discourage discussion. Often their real motives are
not apparent. They sift the facts, exploiting the useful ones and
concealing the others. They also distort and twist facts, specializing
in lies and half-truths. Your emotions, not your logical thinking
abilities, are their target.

The propagandist makes sure that his message appears to be the
right and moral one and that it gives you a sense of importance and
belonging if you follow it. You are one of the smart ones, you are
not alone, you are comfortable and secure—so they say.

Compare that to for instance the KM September QB.

If you believe the WTS to have the Truth, you should in stead help the rest of us while you're here, and refute all the stupid things we say.

34

Please point me to the most horrible logical fallacy from the watchtower...

by DeusMauzzim in

jw
friends

...... so i can hand it in for my logic class next week and have a chance of getting it into the course program next year .

please help this young apostate spread his evil lies at the synagogue of satan called university .

deus mauzzim.

Awakened07

I think this is a nice one:

- If you as a JW decided to live and teach what the JWs (Bible Students) did around 1919 (and many years after that) today, you would be corrected, and if you didn't change you'd be disfellowshiped. Even so, they claim Jesus searched for His true followers around that time, and chose the WTS. How could Jesus be OK with what they taught back then (and choose them over other religions), when He evidently today would condemn you for teaching those same things? In biblical times, did God give the Israelites a few years to "adjust their course" when they had started worshiping the golden calf? Did He slowly give them snippets of "new light" that eventually led them to stop worshiping the golden calf? No - in fact, had it been solely up to God, He'd have killed them all on the spot. Moses persuaded Him otherwise. Why should it be any different today, in what (to JWs) must be the most important time in mankind's history? For many years, the Bible Students celebrated Christmas and birthdays - things that today would be considered "idol worship" by the JWs. Why didn't Jesus immediately stop them from doing that when he chose them?

13

Those of you who remained religious after leaving JWs:

by Awakened07 in

jw
friends

i was just curious how that transition was?

did you simply start attending some other church right away?

if so, how did you choose which church to attend?

Awakened07

Thanks. When I formed the questions, I was thinking people would have different stories and every person would have one of these, but I guess - as you show - it is possible to have had several of them as things progressed.

By the way, this will most likely be a thread that I don't really participate much in; I'll mostly just sit back and see what your stories are.

13

Those of you who remained religious after leaving JWs:

by Awakened07 in

jw
friends

i was just curious how that transition was?

did you simply start attending some other church right away?

if so, how did you choose which church to attend?

Awakened07

I was just curious how that transition was?

Did you simply start attending some other church right away? If so, how did you choose which church to attend? And what religion, for that matter?

Did any of you first have a period where you were an agnostic or atheist, and then after a while 'got religion' again? If so, how did you choose what to believe in, or what church etc. to go to?

Did you first attend some other church, but after a while "slided" into a personal faith with no distinct religion?

Lots of choices here, I guess. Just interested in hearing other people's stories.