Posts by wherehasmyhairgone

3

Gospel of Judas

by wherehasmyhairgone in

i have been out of the wtc for a number of years, so i missed this comming to light throught the wtc eyes.. what have they said about it?

- sorry if this has been asked before.. .

steve.

wherehasmyhairgone

I have been out of the WTC for a number of years, so i missed this comming to light throught the WTC eyes.

What have they said about it? - sorry if this has been asked before.

regards

steve

59

Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty in

dear friends,.

lately i have been re-researching some things i learned as i was leaving the borg.

for lurkers and newbies, i thought i would share this with you.. apparently long before the flood of noah, was a story told and recorded on 12 clay tablets, of a flood so simular to noahs that it will be shocking to you if you have never read about it.

wherehasmyhairgone

Not quite. I'm only opening that door enough to confirm what the Bible says.

I wasn't suggestions you were claiming the existence of ghost and ghouls, and i wasn't making a straw man argument, My point is that if your gonna allow miracles which the only confirmation we have of such things are:

a) eyewitness

b) written stories about it

Then you have no reason to reject the thousands of people each year that see ghosts, and the millions who claim to be in touch with the dead,

Here's a quote from the Society:

Many have scoffed at this account. Yet seashells are found on high mountains. And further evidence that a flood of immense proportions occurred in the not-too-distant past is the great number of fossils and carcasses deposited in icy, mucky dumps.Vast herds of enormous, well-fed beasts not specifically designed for extreme cold, placidly feeding in sunny pastures . . . Suddenly they were all killed without any visible sign of violence and before they could so much as swallow a last mouthful of food, and then were quick-frozen so rapidly that every cell of their bodies is perfectly preserved." 8

This what annoys me so much about WTC their misrepintation of evidence and outright lies and exaggeration of the facts. where is the evidence of what the WETC stated above:

1. 39 mammoths in total have been found in a frozen state. nearly all were rotted and had major signed of scavengers feeding of their bodies.

2. All were in a state of decay before they were frozen.

There are a number of reason that have been put forward on their deaths, here are some that i found

Sinking in muddy silt (Guthrie 1990, 7-24).
Drowning/burial in flash floods carrying a heavy load of silt.
Predation, followed by winter freezing, followed by burial in silt carried by snowmelt (Guthrie 1990, 81-113).
Fall in a landslide, as a thawed riverbank gives way under the animal's weight. The landslide and subsequent soil creep can bury and preserve the animal (Kurtén 1986, chap. 9).

Secondly the WTC claim about shells being found at the top of the mountains showing a global flood, are laughable at the ignorance of that statement. anyone who understand the water cycle on earth knows exactly how Shell would come to be found on tops of mountains.

Keep in mind that the uniformitarian hypothesis is built on a premise void of the worldwide catastrophe that happened about 4,500 years ago – the Noah flood. (See “Noah’s Ark – Fact or Fiction?” and “Noah II,” on this website.) Atmospheric scientist Michael J. Oard was published in the July 2003 issue of Impact which is published by ICR – the Institute for Creation Research. The following excerpts are from his article titled, “Are Polar Ice Sheets Only 4,500 Years Old?”

I am not going to quote the whole article quoted, But seriously doesn't anyone else see the bade science going on here, they are shifting evidence to a convieniant starting point then build a case around. But has any work been done by creationists on this...no all they ever do is take other people work and misquote and misrepresent it to their own ends.

They only have a point if you ignore ( which they do ) the other evidence showing the real age of the polar ice caps.

Yes if you selective take your evidence, you can build a theory on anything, the real test only comes when you put that theory up for testing,

Haven't you every wondered why creationist only publish on general public book or on a website, and never through the peer review way, and the few times they do, they are shown to have bad science, borrowed and misquoted others work.

Isn't it strange that no creationist has put forweard a theroy of how things cam about yet? and Gen 1 & 2 is not a theory its a statement.

59

Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty in

dear friends,.

lately i have been re-researching some things i learned as i was leaving the borg.

for lurkers and newbies, i thought i would share this with you.. apparently long before the flood of noah, was a story told and recorded on 12 clay tablets, of a flood so simular to noahs that it will be shocking to you if you have never read about it.

wherehasmyhairgone

First, I'm likely the formost Biblical scholar in the world at this point.

That is probably the best quote i have ever seen. But at the same time your validity in this claim is akin to the bibles claims, and it ( The bible) has gotten away with outlandish claims for centuries.

I understand you argument. But it's mute when you consider divine intervention, right?

Never a truer word spoken, I will concede with you there my friend, once we invoke miracles, suspension of natural laws, invisible men in the sky, fairies and ghouls and goblins. We can pack up our collective tents of evidence logic, reason and rationality and go home. What troubles me is once you open the door to the groundless belief in miracles you open a flood gate than has to allow everything from fortune telling to spirit guides, and to personal experiences of God.

Thankfully our time is ruled but reason and logic ( most of the times) but it wasn't that long ago when people thought a sneeze was expelling a demon. Burning witches made sense, and (insert favourite deity here) made direct contact to reveal a truth to an individual that always seem to coinicide with their designs and plans of their own.

God really is the lazy way to explain things...don't understand how something could have been possible..God did it, its kinda like a get out of jail for free card.

But then of course if God did it, Who did god?

regards

steve

59

Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty in

dear friends,.

lately i have been re-researching some things i learned as i was leaving the borg.

for lurkers and newbies, i thought i would share this with you.. apparently long before the flood of noah, was a story told and recorded on 12 clay tablets, of a flood so simular to noahs that it will be shocking to you if you have never read about it.

wherehasmyhairgone

Sinis,

CALM DOWN!

i wasn't even refering to you. My comment was aimed at JCanon, and other, your posted clearly wasn't making any apologist claims from what i can see.

However claims of something happening every 3600 years, what has that got to do with anything? that would at best take us back to the susposed exodus?, so i am not quite aure what your on about there.

Local flooding on a large scale i agree with you 100% is it possible that a previous much larger local flood build the myth...quite possible. So it seesm we agree pretty much, so i dont see why you took i was having a go a you.

Also i am aware of how earth was tranlated in genises,erets (eh'-rets) - common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X natins, way, + wilderness, world.

SO may be things are cleared up a little now

59

Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty in

dear friends,.

lately i have been re-researching some things i learned as i was leaving the borg.

for lurkers and newbies, i thought i would share this with you.. apparently long before the flood of noah, was a story told and recorded on 12 clay tablets, of a flood so simular to noahs that it will be shocking to you if you have never read about it.

wherehasmyhairgone

Both of the above presumes there was ice at the poles before the Flood which is contradictory of the Bible's account which says there was no rain before the flood and thus no means of great ice forming from any snows. Instead, under the ICE canopy, there was a greenhouse effect world wide. Thus you find animals like the mammoth and tropical vegetation underneath all these ice cores. Plus, they are making the assumption that each layer amounts to a year, but are they sure? How do they know what was going on earlier or just after the Flood when these ice cores formed? Things may have been the same then as now. But the strongest testament is the vegetation layer under all this ice.

Presume is the wrong word here, we have a accurate record of the ice cores, and your reference to they interpret a layer for a year, shows how far off the mark you are, There are a number of techniques used to dated ice layers, as more than one layer a year can be laid down. ALL the evidence point away from a global flood, weather people choose to accept that or not. But you insist to place your reasoning sole and only on the bible baffles me, when science or history agree with the bible you take the point, when it disagrees you dismiss and claims the bible to be infallible. The only way you can test something to see if it real is to subject its claims to testing , the flood it fails on, big time. Their is NO evidence that a an ice canopy ever or could even have exisited. NO evidence for a global flood, in fact the only reason we even have this discussion is that a flood is mentioned in the bible , without the bible this would never be even a talking point.

Apologists fall over themselves trying to justify the embarrassingly ignorant claims made in the bible, now to believe in the in face of evidence and claims that is the evidence is that strong God put it their to fool us....Oh my science!

I guess we should be thankful that it is belief system that fly so far in the face of reason logic and evidence which makes the idea of the bible being infallible more and more difficult to swallow to anyone that bother to look outside the box.

Except if the Oronteus Finaeus or Piri Reis maps of the Antarctic are true then we have a problem, as these maps show rivers and mountains within the interior that no longer exist (under ice). So if the ice formed after approx 4000 bc or melted and refroze (occurence linked to polar shifting?) then ice cores may not be accurate. Also, if these maps are in fact of the Antarctic, then within 500 years things changed drastically (ice migrating). If that is the case then how can the ice cores be over 40K years old?

The first then to do is to subject these map to an examination ( which has been done) Its accuracy has been shown to lacking in major areas along with contracdictory claims itself.

I hate having to point to this site again, but it is one of the most concise site around

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mom/oronteus.html

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mom/atlantis.html about half way down is the relevant part.

I do have a question for those here that belive a global flood took place. What was the purpose of it?

59

Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty in

dear friends,.

lately i have been re-researching some things i learned as i was leaving the borg.

for lurkers and newbies, i thought i would share this with you.. apparently long before the flood of noah, was a story told and recorded on 12 clay tablets, of a flood so simular to noahs that it will be shocking to you if you have never read about it.

wherehasmyhairgone

find it interesting that recent trips to the poles, where scientists are doing core drills, have recently concluded that EVERY 3600 years something has happened (bad) on this planet - and coincides with the "flood". Their take, and mine, is that something happened that caused massive FLOODING throughout the world. Not a complete deluge as is mentioned in the Bible, but massive localized flooding worldwide. What is interesting is that they have concluded through research that EVERY 3600 years something major (planetary) has happened. They say we are long over due, but funny how the pole shifting (magnetic) seems to reach its Zenith in 2012.

According to Johnsen in "Irregular glacial interstadials recorded in a new Greenland ice core "(peer reviewed) they have ice cores dating back over 40,000 years with no evidence of a flood on a major scale, I realise that what you are proposing is more localized ,but still would represent a major section of Greenland/Europe and down to the middle east. there is no evidence of anything that catastrofic happen in the last 40k years, i the way of a flood.

A local flood to the middle east area only, yes, there was an interesting theory on the 'black sea' busting its banks, whihc could well have given rise to the legends about the flood. I personally haven't looked into how much of this is accurate ,after all it was on the history channel! ( so who knows)

The facts is we live on a planet that is still in a state of flux, the fact we are sat on a lava bed still , will cause all kinds of problem's it does. Our planets isn't as friendly as most seem to think. The earth hasn't shown stability in all recorded history, with ice ages coming and going. And that's not including the risk from space.

Another big issue with the flood is the ark itself. According to the bibles own details, a structure of this size made in the way it is described would have collapsed under its own weight, excluding the inhabitants, and not including either the flood water raises and the movement that would have taken place. Most respected biblical scolars now state that the Flood is just a myth.

Steve

59

Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty in

dear friends,.

lately i have been re-researching some things i learned as i was leaving the borg.

for lurkers and newbies, i thought i would share this with you.. apparently long before the flood of noah, was a story told and recorded on 12 clay tablets, of a flood so simular to noahs that it will be shocking to you if you have never read about it.

wherehasmyhairgone

The Bible is the only historical source you can take for face value along with any others that would harmonize with it.

Whenever the source material has an agenda I always suspect its claims and motives. The story of the flood ,if you wish to take even the bibles own chronology was not written by Noah, so it certainly was not written down around the claimed 2300BCE, now even if you take general claims that moses wrote the first 5 books ( which again is so full of holes) the entire first 5 books is written as history not as current events, would place the writing ( according to 1272BCE) as claims that moses received this, or later. Which places that around the same time as the as the Assyrian one according to leolaia.

So there is no reason to accept the flood in Genesis ( of whihc there is 2 versions) is an original unless you activate the faith card, which is of course belief without evidence and more importantly belief against the evidence. Of course you have extended problem for those that claim the genesis flood was meant to be a local flood with Gen 7: 17-20 where every mountain top was covered by fifteen cubits. So the get out of jail for free card on the claims that genesis was a local flood is damaged by this statement.

http://hebrew.scripturetext.com/genesis/7-17.htm this the Hebrew word used for earth here.

If anyone is looking for something that proves the that a global flood took place their is a three part series called the Origin of Variety it is a google video and is about six hours long, but he cleary shows that the only way we have the world as we know it is because of the flood. The Origin of Variety.gvi

There is good science and bad science, and this video is BAD science, he comments about evolutionary beginning was full of errors, and claimed bigger explanations that any evolutionist would claim.( that was 11 mins in!) His probability example showed his complete lack of understanding of probability and was a a joke, but seemed to feed his ignorant audience.

The flood on a global scale was impossible and Animal life would have collapsed under the range of species we see today if we base the Noah idea of taking 2 of every kind. That the beauty of DNA, the evidence is there.

9

Gold Mine of Historical WT Documents: Bible Student Library 3

by cabasilas in

the folks over at www.heraldmag.org have outdone themselves!

researchers have used that site for many years to obtain files of older watchtower related documents from russell's day (and also including later bible student materials).

now, they have issued a new dvd with much more material on it.

wherehasmyhairgone

This is their online viewable stuff.

http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/bsllinks/History.htm

59

Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty in

dear friends,.

lately i have been re-researching some things i learned as i was leaving the borg.

for lurkers and newbies, i thought i would share this with you.. apparently long before the flood of noah, was a story told and recorded on 12 clay tablets, of a flood so simular to noahs that it will be shocking to you if you have never read about it.

wherehasmyhairgone

Bear in mind the flood is dated by the bibles word only, so just because it claims to have happen/written around 2300BCE(?) doesn't mean that is what happened. and again that is working on the premises that the writer of the flood was aware of the biblical time line

In fact their is a lot of evidence of a local flood which I am sure you are coming across, but a world wide flood..nope. The mechanics just don't work.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html

this is probably the best site i have come across that deals with the logistics of the flood and the ark.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html#georecord

The evidence against a world wide flood is 'overwhelming' take for instance, tree ring dating brings up back nearly 11,000 years, and to compound this issue some current living trees are dated at 4900 years old, placing them 500+ years before the flood.

And this is before you enter the philosophical reason and actions of the flood.

43

El vs. YHWH or El into YHWH. for those who've read "The Bible Unearthed"

by kwintestal in

i've been thinking about this for quite a while and i'm not exactly sure how the best way of putting it out there, so if it seems like i'm blabbering at points, i more then likely am and i'm sorry.

i'm kind of merging two different thoughts together, historical info i got from the book, "the bible unearthed" and personal research and discussions with others regarding "el".. el obviously played an important part in early hebrew language as it was their word for "god".

but, el was a caananite god, and to them the god of all gods, supreme god father of all things and humankind.

wherehasmyhairgone

Jcanon,

Thank you for your reply. and also the quoting advise , hopefully this will work in this post now.

Ok,

It may indeed be a trump card, but I think there is "blind faith" and "faith" that has some foundation. But still, one is required to have faith in some things the Bible says that you are not going to get a video confirmation of. Some people don't believe a thing unless they see it themselves, which excludes everything in the past that happened before they were born. So yes, it could be a trump card for some, but I think that's a wide range. I can't PROVE what Abraham said. The Bible says he said some things. I trust the Bible so have "faith" that it's true. "Faith is not a possession of all people."

Faith has nothing to do with being able to see something or not. Faith as defined http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/faith is firm belief in something for which there is no proof. Now this doesn't mean things you can not see. i.e i can not see the electrons in my PC but i do not need faith in order to know they are there. People who will believe in nothing they can not see are being just a dogmatic as those who claims a higher insight. The claims to be from God, its claims to be written from God, but this is just circular logic i hope you can see that. Forget what Abraham said, how about whether Abraham actually exisited, again outside of the bible their is no evidence of his existence. So you need faith ( which is a belief without evidence) that Abraham exisited. Now bear in mind evidence is not necessarily something you can see or observes directly it can also be indirect evidence.

You make a good point. But again, it's just my own collective assessment that this is a real god AND the god of the Bible. He had features that were mentioned in the Bible, so there was some consistency. For instance the Bible says God has wooly hair. My god had what we'd call today a "natural", a rather medium-sized rounded one, finely combed. So when I saw that, it registered, "Oh, yeah, hair like 'fine wool' that's how they described it when others saw it. So again, people will question and doubt but I'm convinced it was real and this was the God of the Bible.

I am slightly at a loss at this statement, except for the scripture that says no man has ever seen God. And God on one hands according to you need you to have faith and believe in him without any evidence and on the other hand then reveals himself to you, so why to you and not to everyone else? ( I am sure you do not know Gods mind) But why doesn't just reveal himself to everyone then everyone will believe, in fact if he is all powerful, why not just make everyone able to believe he exists, its certainly doesn't affect this issue of sovereignty in the bible.

Aha! You are wanting PROOF before you believe.

You say that like its a bad thing! Wanting proof for something when that something defies logic and reason ( apparent God given qualities) proof gives us the ability to evaluate the claims, otherwise I can make a statement that I am God and am here on this board to show you all that you need to follow (insert relevant belief) no based on the idea that wanting proof is a negative trait then you 'have to' accept what i am saying and follow me. otherwise you are using you own reasoning to determine what i am saying is false.

That's how it is set up. In fact, God has made it so that even if you knew the details it would be too hard to believe:
" 41 ‘Behold it, YOU scorners, and wonder at it, and vanish away, because I am working a work in YOUR days, a work that YOU will by no means believe even if anyone relates it to YOU in detail.’ ”
I think some people think God owes them some somersaults and magic tricks before they believe the Bible. It's not like. It's more like if you show a tendency to doubt and disbelieve the Bible, especially when no sign beyond the Bible basically is to be given, then God is really just interested in those people who can accommodate the Bible, have faith and then he gives them more confidence that what they believe is true. But for those who reject from the beginning and don't want to believe, God casts them into darkness, leads them to a steep cliff and then Jesus comes up from behind and pushes them over. So while yes, there is an intense effort to gather a certain type of individual into the kingdom and there may need to be some persuasion, there is little interest in another type, the "weeds", the "goats." They are like chaff on the threshing floor which Christ cleans up. So those without the right garments don't get into the kingdom and some that might get in by accident and found lacking are thrown outside.

If you want someone to follow you, would you make it impossible for them to believe in you? would a father wanting his child to believe he was his father, ensure that he never saw him, and all the evidence point away from him, then punish him with death because the son doesn't believe his father is who he claims he is. Doesn't that strike you as very sadistic?

There is a comment that says, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. However as God apparently though out biblical claimed history regular suspended the natural laws to provide a miracle, But here the rub. So tomorrow too large feet come down from the sky and scientists can not explain this, and the voice says.. everyone on earth I am God and i need you to know that the true religion that represents me is Islam. NOW what would happen? I would put money on the fact that Muslims would become unbearable to live with, and every other religion would denounce this as a work of the devil, why, because proof and evidence is not the concern of religion it is what feels right to the individual. Now your comment about God being only interested in people who can accommodate the bible, the kinds of qualities that require this are, the ability to believe in something because someone says so, an unquestioning disposition, to name a few. But reason and logic's things that gives us the ability to create morality are considered bad traits by this reasoning.

Adam being MALE and from the EARTH (dark brown) and dominant and Eve being FEMALE and from the bone white bone of Adam is an esoteric reference that Eve was "bone white" and Adam was the color of the earth, red/brown. So you are free to reject that interpretation if you wish. It seems reasonable since genetics breaks down genes into dominant and recessive genes that the male would carry the dominant genes and the female the recessive ones. That's where that comes from.

You have no basis other than a personal opinion in this. I do not need to interpret this at all, the bible make no claims as to the skin color of adman or eve. Dominant and recessive genes have nothing to do with what you are proposing here. I will make available the article i mentioned and provide some other references over the next few days for you to understand the way in whihc DNA traits are seen.

Well now you're getting philosophical here. Satan likes philosophical arguments. God is defined by the "four living creatures" and Christ has the dominant features of the bull (power/virility) and the man (love), whereas Satan (before he rebelled) carried the primary features of the eagle (wisdom/knowledge) and the Lion (justice/legal issues). So Satan brings up some of the same issues. For instance, in order to get rid of Satan, God decided to just kill everybody, including his primary son, Jesus/Michael. That removes any "legal" issues, because God has a right to limit the lifespan of his gift of life. If he kills everybody, then there is no legal challenge. But Satan didn't like this idea so to mock God, Satan inspired infantacide, where worshippers caused their children to "pass through the fire" just as God made all his children "pass through the fire" as well to test them. This turned out an effective means to get rid of Satan, however, without hearing any long, drawn-out legal and philosophical arguments from Satan, though some were permitted at the time of the "battle in heaven" during which I was present via a vision. But it turns out Satan got tricked

I am not quoting everything you said here ( to save space on this post)

Your comment implies that God 'IS' right and wrong. This then means our morality has no value. Which means the only reason you do not commit incest is cause God now says its wrong. Likewise you do not kill as God says it wrong, but if he said it was OK, you would do it. Legal issues have nothing to do with this matter. Your comment highlight to me the real problem with what religion does to our species. It cheapens life, so the line goes, Well if we die its ok we can come back. Which paves the way for martyrdom etc etc.

There is no evidence , and never has been for anything after death, however this is a very convenient way for belief systems to grown their flock so but their faith above their own life. What sicken me so much was Abraham and Issac story, the fact that Abraham heard a voice in his head ( or maybe saw what he assumed to be god) and this apparent loving God told him to kill his son, and without question was going to it, and then he is held up as an example. So if Abraham had said, I am not going to kill my son, a loving God would never say that it must be the devil saying this, would this give him good morals.

I can name a lot of people nowadays that are quite willing to believe killing innocent people because they think God is telling them to do so, Yes just like Abraham. That is why this personal relationship with a God is so dangerous, I hold Abraham up as a good example of how not behaviour. I would rather be killed myself that to kill my own son, but apparently according to the bible that would make me unfaithful. The bible is immoral.

Does God say something is wrong because it is wrong or does he say its wrong just because God deems it to be wrong?
It's God's choice. He decides. It's his yard, his universe, his right. So its like a good marriage. It's all in the match-up. Some people who are boring to one is simply amazing and fascinating to another.

Then morality is invalid, as morality is hinged on the day to day whim of a God, God has been anything but consistent with his morals, First incest ( he could have just created more humans in the first place you know) then outlaws it. Allow man to develop his own sense of morality...murder is wrong. Then commend someone like moses to go back into the certain nations and kill the male children as well. That sickens me. God in the OT practices ethic cleansing on a scale that is shameful. New born and young killed who are innocent , and the argument comes back well he will resurrected them, then why create them in the first place. God see no problem in allowing new born and young infant experience the horrible death of drowning ( as in the flood) suffering to God is something that doesn't both him. But in the same breath commands his people about that Way they cut their beard or the food they eat. Bi-polar is the word that comes to mind. God-in the OT is anything but loving and kind.

Your picture you included, i have no idea what it is meant to show, i personally can't see anything, so can you elaborate or something.

My scenario is that it was solid ice, clear, that would let the sunlight through, and created the same effect as a greenhouse.

physics wouldn't allow that to happen period. clear ice! at that height and solid, for that weight it would need into in orbit, then for it to reenter the earth it would heat up, and that amount of water would have boiled off the oceans. The flood is a physical impossibility period.

Yes you are free to believe anything you want, but if that belief flies in the face of all the evidence to the con try then you are deluding yourself. That is not faith that is delusion

Many claim to see Elvis on a daily basis, we tend to lock them up, why?
Because they are likely hallucinating, that's why.

So that is also possible with ones who claim to see God. The explanation of God gives no such explanation of why we see things today. I feel God is the lazy man answer to everything.... don't know how someone happened...oh ok God did it.

So on that assumption God created out beautiful world, but also, the virus, the incests that can kill with one bite, also radiation that can kill us, asteroids that can wipe out life on earth, poises gases that can kill us and the list goes on.

But in God's defense as far the the legal premise. Yes God does bring the error of the parents on the children, but that rule was necessary to apply the Ransom Sacrifice. Thus though through one man all mankind had sinned, it would only take the death of one righteous man to correct that. So while we inherit sin from Adam, we inherit a second chance by Christ's death. If God did not bring the sin upon the children, he could not save them through the Ransom Sacrifice.

Bearing in mind God created the who sin thing in the first place, he could just forgive us you know, but he made the rutles didn't he, he determined that all men must now die because of Adam, he determined that children are born for just a few weeks to die a horrible death because of birth defects.. Remember God apparently has the power to stop these things but allow then to continue ..why to prove a point that the only reason , to show how man cant rule himself. Anyone who can watch a baby die of a disease and have the power to heal that baby and doesn't is a very bad person.

The Ransom doesn't even make sense if you sit down and think it through. but that right don't think, have faith...no thanks.

The end of mankind may be close, and it may be brought on my some religious lunatics, but God stepping it,, i don't think so. if he exisited then i would like the chance to tell him how he let mankind down.

Kind regards

Steve