Posts by wherehasmyhairgone

39

Prayer a Waste of Time?

by WTWizard in

how often do you hear about prayer at the meeting that, if you should pray that if jehovah wills that he should do something?

to me, this is a total waste of time to pray if that condition applies.

you see, if jehovah willed something, why would he need to wait for you to ask him for it?

wherehasmyhairgone

Its difficult to respond to ramtruckers post without it sounding insulting on a personal level.

This is a rant about pray in general and not specially about ramtruckers comments, but was inspired by them

But stories like are an insult to every child that died a horrible death a the hands of some predator, every person who drown, while crying at the top of their voices for god to save them.

To think that on one hand God would provide water to prisoners and in the exact same moment would ignore horrific beating's ,rape, and the list goes on, shows either one of 3 things

1. God doesn't answer any prayers, which makes him/her heartless

2. Answers certain prayers, but is quite happy to allow intense suffering on some but not on other

3. God doesn't exist or isn't what we think he/her/it is.

My skin crawls when i see some lucky survivors from a natural disaster thank God and that they prayed to god to save them, as that indicates that all the other who died, God didn't answer their prayers.

I once had the experience of witnesses a serious car accident, and the car flipped many time before a fire broke out, me and a few others pulled this women to safety, unburnt and OK, but shocked. Her first words were, i prayed to Jesus as the car flipped to save me.... So elsewhere in that town that day the Baby that died in the car earlier than day due to heat ( was in the news locally) dies cause..it couldn't pray? or God didn't care, or maybe thought that an 18month old strapped in the car seat should experience extreme heat and death.

People who claim God saved them or interviewed need a good slap in mouth's insulting every innocent that ever died.

Yes sometimes we are lucky, sometimes circumstances fall our way, sometimes that might even defy our our reason who something could have happened, but don't be quick to invoke God when you don't know the answer.

To have the power to save someone and not to, shows cruelty on a universal scale, If God exisited he would be guilty of complacency in the deaths of millions of people,. and to think living under his rule would be a paradise, when he is willing and able to witnesses very young children experience horrific deaths, well....

I saw a great sign once that said:

Prayer

How to do nothing

and still think you're helping

39

Prayer a Waste of Time?

by WTWizard in

how often do you hear about prayer at the meeting that, if you should pray that if jehovah wills that he should do something?

to me, this is a total waste of time to pray if that condition applies.

you see, if jehovah willed something, why would he need to wait for you to ask him for it?

wherehasmyhairgone

Gods own words on the matter

http://www.grouper.com/c/Funny/Mr_Deity_and_the_Messages_Episode_4/1806036#ml=o%3d12%26fpl%3d68726%26fx%3d

Can't argue with that

3

Gospel of Judas

by wherehasmyhairgone in

i have been out of the wtc for a number of years, so i missed this comming to light throught the wtc eyes.. what have they said about it?

- sorry if this has been asked before.. .

steve.

wherehasmyhairgone

I have been out of the WTC for a number of years, so i missed this comming to light throught the WTC eyes.

What have they said about it? - sorry if this has been asked before.

regards

steve

59

Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty in

dear friends,.

lately i have been re-researching some things i learned as i was leaving the borg.

for lurkers and newbies, i thought i would share this with you.. apparently long before the flood of noah, was a story told and recorded on 12 clay tablets, of a flood so simular to noahs that it will be shocking to you if you have never read about it.

wherehasmyhairgone

Not quite. I'm only opening that door enough to confirm what the Bible says.

I wasn't suggestions you were claiming the existence of ghost and ghouls, and i wasn't making a straw man argument, My point is that if your gonna allow miracles which the only confirmation we have of such things are:

a) eyewitness

b) written stories about it

Then you have no reason to reject the thousands of people each year that see ghosts, and the millions who claim to be in touch with the dead,

Here's a quote from the Society:

Many have scoffed at this account. Yet seashells are found on high mountains. And further evidence that a flood of immense proportions occurred in the not-too-distant past is the great number of fossils and carcasses deposited in icy, mucky dumps.Vast herds of enormous, well-fed beasts not specifically designed for extreme cold, placidly feeding in sunny pastures . . . Suddenly they were all killed without any visible sign of violence and before they could so much as swallow a last mouthful of food, and then were quick-frozen so rapidly that every cell of their bodies is perfectly preserved." 8

This what annoys me so much about WTC their misrepintation of evidence and outright lies and exaggeration of the facts. where is the evidence of what the WETC stated above:

1. 39 mammoths in total have been found in a frozen state. nearly all were rotted and had major signed of scavengers feeding of their bodies.

2. All were in a state of decay before they were frozen.

There are a number of reason that have been put forward on their deaths, here are some that i found

Sinking in muddy silt (Guthrie 1990, 7-24).
Drowning/burial in flash floods carrying a heavy load of silt.
Predation, followed by winter freezing, followed by burial in silt carried by snowmelt (Guthrie 1990, 81-113).
Fall in a landslide, as a thawed riverbank gives way under the animal's weight. The landslide and subsequent soil creep can bury and preserve the animal (Kurtén 1986, chap. 9).

Secondly the WTC claim about shells being found at the top of the mountains showing a global flood, are laughable at the ignorance of that statement. anyone who understand the water cycle on earth knows exactly how Shell would come to be found on tops of mountains.

Keep in mind that the uniformitarian hypothesis is built on a premise void of the worldwide catastrophe that happened about 4,500 years ago – the Noah flood. (See “Noah’s Ark – Fact or Fiction?” and “Noah II,” on this website.) Atmospheric scientist Michael J. Oard was published in the July 2003 issue of Impact which is published by ICR – the Institute for Creation Research. The following excerpts are from his article titled, “Are Polar Ice Sheets Only 4,500 Years Old?”

I am not going to quote the whole article quoted, But seriously doesn't anyone else see the bade science going on here, they are shifting evidence to a convieniant starting point then build a case around. But has any work been done by creationists on this...no all they ever do is take other people work and misquote and misrepresent it to their own ends.

They only have a point if you ignore ( which they do ) the other evidence showing the real age of the polar ice caps.

Yes if you selective take your evidence, you can build a theory on anything, the real test only comes when you put that theory up for testing,

Haven't you every wondered why creationist only publish on general public book or on a website, and never through the peer review way, and the few times they do, they are shown to have bad science, borrowed and misquoted others work.

Isn't it strange that no creationist has put forweard a theroy of how things cam about yet? and Gen 1 & 2 is not a theory its a statement.

59

Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty in

dear friends,.

lately i have been re-researching some things i learned as i was leaving the borg.

for lurkers and newbies, i thought i would share this with you.. apparently long before the flood of noah, was a story told and recorded on 12 clay tablets, of a flood so simular to noahs that it will be shocking to you if you have never read about it.

wherehasmyhairgone

First, I'm likely the formost Biblical scholar in the world at this point.

That is probably the best quote i have ever seen. But at the same time your validity in this claim is akin to the bibles claims, and it ( The bible) has gotten away with outlandish claims for centuries.

I understand you argument. But it's mute when you consider divine intervention, right?

Never a truer word spoken, I will concede with you there my friend, once we invoke miracles, suspension of natural laws, invisible men in the sky, fairies and ghouls and goblins. We can pack up our collective tents of evidence logic, reason and rationality and go home. What troubles me is once you open the door to the groundless belief in miracles you open a flood gate than has to allow everything from fortune telling to spirit guides, and to personal experiences of God.

Thankfully our time is ruled but reason and logic ( most of the times) but it wasn't that long ago when people thought a sneeze was expelling a demon. Burning witches made sense, and (insert favourite deity here) made direct contact to reveal a truth to an individual that always seem to coinicide with their designs and plans of their own.

God really is the lazy way to explain things...don't understand how something could have been possible..God did it, its kinda like a get out of jail for free card.

But then of course if God did it, Who did god?

regards

steve

59

Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty in

dear friends,.

lately i have been re-researching some things i learned as i was leaving the borg.

for lurkers and newbies, i thought i would share this with you.. apparently long before the flood of noah, was a story told and recorded on 12 clay tablets, of a flood so simular to noahs that it will be shocking to you if you have never read about it.

wherehasmyhairgone

Sinis,

CALM DOWN!

i wasn't even refering to you. My comment was aimed at JCanon, and other, your posted clearly wasn't making any apologist claims from what i can see.

However claims of something happening every 3600 years, what has that got to do with anything? that would at best take us back to the susposed exodus?, so i am not quite aure what your on about there.

Local flooding on a large scale i agree with you 100% is it possible that a previous much larger local flood build the myth...quite possible. So it seesm we agree pretty much, so i dont see why you took i was having a go a you.

Also i am aware of how earth was tranlated in genises,erets (eh'-rets) - common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X natins, way, + wilderness, world.

SO may be things are cleared up a little now

59

Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty in

dear friends,.

lately i have been re-researching some things i learned as i was leaving the borg.

for lurkers and newbies, i thought i would share this with you.. apparently long before the flood of noah, was a story told and recorded on 12 clay tablets, of a flood so simular to noahs that it will be shocking to you if you have never read about it.

wherehasmyhairgone

Both of the above presumes there was ice at the poles before the Flood which is contradictory of the Bible's account which says there was no rain before the flood and thus no means of great ice forming from any snows. Instead, under the ICE canopy, there was a greenhouse effect world wide. Thus you find animals like the mammoth and tropical vegetation underneath all these ice cores. Plus, they are making the assumption that each layer amounts to a year, but are they sure? How do they know what was going on earlier or just after the Flood when these ice cores formed? Things may have been the same then as now. But the strongest testament is the vegetation layer under all this ice.

Presume is the wrong word here, we have a accurate record of the ice cores, and your reference to they interpret a layer for a year, shows how far off the mark you are, There are a number of techniques used to dated ice layers, as more than one layer a year can be laid down. ALL the evidence point away from a global flood, weather people choose to accept that or not. But you insist to place your reasoning sole and only on the bible baffles me, when science or history agree with the bible you take the point, when it disagrees you dismiss and claims the bible to be infallible. The only way you can test something to see if it real is to subject its claims to testing , the flood it fails on, big time. Their is NO evidence that a an ice canopy ever or could even have exisited. NO evidence for a global flood, in fact the only reason we even have this discussion is that a flood is mentioned in the bible , without the bible this would never be even a talking point.

Apologists fall over themselves trying to justify the embarrassingly ignorant claims made in the bible, now to believe in the in face of evidence and claims that is the evidence is that strong God put it their to fool us....Oh my science!

I guess we should be thankful that it is belief system that fly so far in the face of reason logic and evidence which makes the idea of the bible being infallible more and more difficult to swallow to anyone that bother to look outside the box.

Except if the Oronteus Finaeus or Piri Reis maps of the Antarctic are true then we have a problem, as these maps show rivers and mountains within the interior that no longer exist (under ice). So if the ice formed after approx 4000 bc or melted and refroze (occurence linked to polar shifting?) then ice cores may not be accurate. Also, if these maps are in fact of the Antarctic, then within 500 years things changed drastically (ice migrating). If that is the case then how can the ice cores be over 40K years old?

The first then to do is to subject these map to an examination ( which has been done) Its accuracy has been shown to lacking in major areas along with contracdictory claims itself.

I hate having to point to this site again, but it is one of the most concise site around

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mom/oronteus.html

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mom/atlantis.html about half way down is the relevant part.

I do have a question for those here that belive a global flood took place. What was the purpose of it?

59

Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty in

dear friends,.

lately i have been re-researching some things i learned as i was leaving the borg.

for lurkers and newbies, i thought i would share this with you.. apparently long before the flood of noah, was a story told and recorded on 12 clay tablets, of a flood so simular to noahs that it will be shocking to you if you have never read about it.

wherehasmyhairgone

find it interesting that recent trips to the poles, where scientists are doing core drills, have recently concluded that EVERY 3600 years something has happened (bad) on this planet - and coincides with the "flood". Their take, and mine, is that something happened that caused massive FLOODING throughout the world. Not a complete deluge as is mentioned in the Bible, but massive localized flooding worldwide. What is interesting is that they have concluded through research that EVERY 3600 years something major (planetary) has happened. They say we are long over due, but funny how the pole shifting (magnetic) seems to reach its Zenith in 2012.

According to Johnsen in "Irregular glacial interstadials recorded in a new Greenland ice core "(peer reviewed) they have ice cores dating back over 40,000 years with no evidence of a flood on a major scale, I realise that what you are proposing is more localized ,but still would represent a major section of Greenland/Europe and down to the middle east. there is no evidence of anything that catastrofic happen in the last 40k years, i the way of a flood.

A local flood to the middle east area only, yes, there was an interesting theory on the 'black sea' busting its banks, whihc could well have given rise to the legends about the flood. I personally haven't looked into how much of this is accurate ,after all it was on the history channel! ( so who knows)

The facts is we live on a planet that is still in a state of flux, the fact we are sat on a lava bed still , will cause all kinds of problem's it does. Our planets isn't as friendly as most seem to think. The earth hasn't shown stability in all recorded history, with ice ages coming and going. And that's not including the risk from space.

Another big issue with the flood is the ark itself. According to the bibles own details, a structure of this size made in the way it is described would have collapsed under its own weight, excluding the inhabitants, and not including either the flood water raises and the movement that would have taken place. Most respected biblical scolars now state that the Flood is just a myth.

Steve

59

Flood of Gilgamesh written long before Noahs flood. Look at how simular!!

by Lady Liberty in

dear friends,.

lately i have been re-researching some things i learned as i was leaving the borg.

for lurkers and newbies, i thought i would share this with you.. apparently long before the flood of noah, was a story told and recorded on 12 clay tablets, of a flood so simular to noahs that it will be shocking to you if you have never read about it.

wherehasmyhairgone

The Bible is the only historical source you can take for face value along with any others that would harmonize with it.

Whenever the source material has an agenda I always suspect its claims and motives. The story of the flood ,if you wish to take even the bibles own chronology was not written by Noah, so it certainly was not written down around the claimed 2300BCE, now even if you take general claims that moses wrote the first 5 books ( which again is so full of holes) the entire first 5 books is written as history not as current events, would place the writing ( according to 1272BCE) as claims that moses received this, or later. Which places that around the same time as the as the Assyrian one according to leolaia.

So there is no reason to accept the flood in Genesis ( of whihc there is 2 versions) is an original unless you activate the faith card, which is of course belief without evidence and more importantly belief against the evidence. Of course you have extended problem for those that claim the genesis flood was meant to be a local flood with Gen 7: 17-20 where every mountain top was covered by fifteen cubits. So the get out of jail for free card on the claims that genesis was a local flood is damaged by this statement.

http://hebrew.scripturetext.com/genesis/7-17.htm this the Hebrew word used for earth here.

If anyone is looking for something that proves the that a global flood took place their is a three part series called the Origin of Variety it is a google video and is about six hours long, but he cleary shows that the only way we have the world as we know it is because of the flood. The Origin of Variety.gvi

There is good science and bad science, and this video is BAD science, he comments about evolutionary beginning was full of errors, and claimed bigger explanations that any evolutionist would claim.( that was 11 mins in!) His probability example showed his complete lack of understanding of probability and was a a joke, but seemed to feed his ignorant audience.

The flood on a global scale was impossible and Animal life would have collapsed under the range of species we see today if we base the Noah idea of taking 2 of every kind. That the beauty of DNA, the evidence is there.

9

Gold Mine of Historical WT Documents: Bible Student Library 3

by cabasilas in

the folks over at www.heraldmag.org have outdone themselves!

researchers have used that site for many years to obtain files of older watchtower related documents from russell's day (and also including later bible student materials).

now, they have issued a new dvd with much more material on it.

wherehasmyhairgone

This is their online viewable stuff.

http://www.heraldmag.org/olb/contents/bsllinks/History.htm