Posts by Tornintwo

37

W 15 july - members of others religions not destroyed???

by paradisebeauty in

please tell me what do you understand from this quote that is taken from w july 2015, the article your deliverance is close paragraph 5.. i understand that not all members of other religions will be destroyed at armageddon.

i talked to a jw.

he says he understands differently: they will not be destroyed when the babylon the great will be destroyed but they will be destroyed in armageddon.

Tornintwo

I think anyone who has genuine faith should be very careful about putting themselves in a position of judgement on others. Matt 7:1

I like dubstepped remarks ; my view is that we are so far removed from the time of Christ, from any miracle, from any tangible prophet, the world is so secular and there is so much confusion surrounding God, that it would be unfair of God not to make things clearer before the end. So that the choice is clearer if he's going to use people's decisions now as a basis for judgement.

It's crazy to think that someone refusing a magazine on a Saturday morning because they're busy would be a basis for judging them adversely.

Its either got to become much clearer what people are saying no to, all over the world, or God will read people's hearts and make the decision. Either way I can't believe that only 1 in 1000 will live, the current ratio of jws, not 1% but 0.1%.

32

If you were put in charge of the Governing Body tomorrow...

by FusionTheism in

if you were somehow magically put in-charge of the governing body tomorrow, by jesus, with the rules being, you could not teach anything that would be considered outright apostasy and you could not teach anything that would be considered to cause doubt about god's existence... (so as not to arouse suspicion).

what "new light" or "clarified understandings" would you introduce first?.

and which later on?.

Tornintwo

I'd say we've made a lot of mistakes!

We no longer want to be masters over your faith, if your conscience allows you to take blood, celebrate birthdays etc etc the it's between you and Jehovah, there'll be no sanctions. Reconsider the stance on blood and prove that Jesus emphasized the value of life above all else.

id change the disfellowshipping, reinstatement arrangement, no more shunning. Presumably if people want to come to the hall they want to try to do things right, that's enough. Restrictions could be no preaching and teaching but not being ignored by people.

Id take away the hierarchy, labels and counting hours. For statistics you can count conversions not hours (3000 souls were added, scriptural example)

I'd emphasis love and acceptance, mercy etc. say "we're trying to follow gods word and Jesus example the best we can and we hope we have his approval" , but not "we're right and everyone else is completely wrong". Stop calling other people worldly and say we hope Jehovah is merciful to as many as possible in the time of the end. As for preaching it would be more about basic Christianity.

I'd gradually reexamine every teaching without the prejudice of past teachings and tradition of men, or the desire to control others .

Oh, and I'd organise loads of social events especially for the young ones.

vote for me!

37

W 15 july - members of others religions not destroyed???

by paradisebeauty in

please tell me what do you understand from this quote that is taken from w july 2015, the article your deliverance is close paragraph 5.. i understand that not all members of other religions will be destroyed at armageddon.

i talked to a jw.

he says he understands differently: they will not be destroyed when the babylon the great will be destroyed but they will be destroyed in armageddon.

Tornintwo

I read this too with interest but it's not as exciting as I first hoped.

what it says is that the destruction of religion will not mean the destruction of all members, that some will leave the religions. Then it says:

“Similarly, we cannot expect that the future interruption in the great tribulation will result in an influx of new believers. Rather, it will be an opportunity for all true believers to prove their love for Jehovah and give their support to Christ’s brothers.

“No doubt God’s people will proclaim a hard-hitting judgment message. This may well involve a declaration announcing that Satan’s wicked world is about to come to its complete”

So basically they are saying, religion would be destroyed, some members will survive and renounce those religions, then the Jw message would get harder, but we shouldn't expect mass conversion, the key to survival is not being a good person, believing in Christ and being a sincere Christian but as usual is 'supporting Christs 'brothers''

remember though this only matters if they're actually right about any of these predictions and an honest look at the last 120 years would say they're probably not!

16

Preach, preach, preach....feel guilty...preach some more

by Tornintwo in

since starting to wake up, i can't help notice how so many talks emphasise preaching, increasing your hours, pioneering etc...with a hefty load of guilt on the side.. i always noticed the guilt, but now i'm noticing how talks that seem to start out on another issue always seem to come back to hours!

visit talk seemed to start out about persecution, trusting in jehovah etc...but the main thrust in the end was, 'do more hours, pioneer, don't get an education or pursue a career, don't get distracted, hooray for the pioneers!

if you dont do more hours you will be 'the sort that shrink back to destruction'.

Tornintwo

Oppostate, so so true. We have so many chronic fatigue, m.e., fibromyalgia and mental illness sufferers, I think this could be a way to subconsciously excuse yourself from the overwork without the judgement of others and guilt. Scary.

John Aquila, I find it hard to believe it's all about money, just because there's no one sitting in a mansion on a Caribbean island, I might well be wrong, it's got to be a consideration. I suppose there is a good chance that at least some of those converts will give 10, 20$ per week....

16

Preach, preach, preach....feel guilty...preach some more

by Tornintwo in

since starting to wake up, i can't help notice how so many talks emphasise preaching, increasing your hours, pioneering etc...with a hefty load of guilt on the side.. i always noticed the guilt, but now i'm noticing how talks that seem to start out on another issue always seem to come back to hours!

visit talk seemed to start out about persecution, trusting in jehovah etc...but the main thrust in the end was, 'do more hours, pioneer, don't get an education or pursue a career, don't get distracted, hooray for the pioneers!

if you dont do more hours you will be 'the sort that shrink back to destruction'.

Tornintwo

Thanks For the responses, thanks LisaRose, I'm reading combatting cult mind control at the moment, but struggling to get past the really extreme examples to see how it applies to JWs.

It's true if I was as busy as I 'should' be I would never have time to research ttatt.

I have to say I never felt euphoric after the ministry, but yeah relieved it's over!

16

Preach, preach, preach....feel guilty...preach some more

by Tornintwo in

since starting to wake up, i can't help notice how so many talks emphasise preaching, increasing your hours, pioneering etc...with a hefty load of guilt on the side.. i always noticed the guilt, but now i'm noticing how talks that seem to start out on another issue always seem to come back to hours!

visit talk seemed to start out about persecution, trusting in jehovah etc...but the main thrust in the end was, 'do more hours, pioneer, don't get an education or pursue a career, don't get distracted, hooray for the pioneers!

if you dont do more hours you will be 'the sort that shrink back to destruction'.

Tornintwo

Since starting to wake up, I can't help notice how so many talks emphasise preaching, increasing your hours, pioneering etc...with a hefty load of guilt on the side.

I always noticed the guilt, but now I'm noticing how talks that seem to start out on another issue always seem to come back to hours! Last c.o. Visit talk seemed to start out about persecution, trusting in Jehovah etc...but the main thrust in the end was, 'do more hours, pioneer, don't get an education or pursue a career, don't get distracted, hooray for the pioneers! If you dont do more hours you will be 'the sort that shrink back to destruction'.' Along with a really weird experience about a little girl who's main concern in life was getting back to her return visits. Couldn't help thinking how in quite a cliquey, gossipy congregation some counsel about showing love and Christian qualities would have been nice!

So an 'all in Jw' would say "preaching is the most important work on earth, we have to save as many as we can before the time of the end......" But when you've considered the amazing inefficiency & waste of time that most preaching seems to be, the complete lack of urgency & the fact that it takes 7000 hours to get one baptism (plus all the hours at Bethel) this can't be the real reason they want us to be pounding the pavements so much.

so you watchtower cynics/realists out there, what is the real reason?

27

Why don't people in the US, UK or Euro-Citizens know anything about Jehovah's Witness Pedophile Issues and lawsuits?

by MagicMItchJensen in

i know you all are aware of how little knowledge people have about jehovah's witnesses and topics men like bob bowen and women like barbara anderson tried to raise the level of public awareness that "the jehovah witness coming to your door might be a pedophile or child molester!

" what's gone wrong, has the society outsmarted the media or do people not really care what happens to young children?

if you took a survey trying to ascertain how many people walking through the grocery store, a target or upper class stores nordstroms, your going to be shocked how little people know.. if it's about the catholic church, those numbers shot through the ceiling, is this because there is no problem in the new world watchtower order or their better at damage control?

Tornintwo

In UK there could be serious bad press when the Charities commission finishes their investigation into JWs due to alleged mishandling of child abuse, watch this space;

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/charity-commission-investigates-jehovahs-witnesses-charities

8

Interview With An Apostate: done4good

by done4good in

jw
friends

tell us a little about yourself and your family.. family first started studying with jw around 1977. i was 4 then, and raised pretty much up the religion from that point onward.

my father studied, lost interest, but mom picked up where he left off.

simultaneously, my aunt studied with another jw, and dove in head first.

Tornintwo

Thank you, really interesting. You're too successful in real life to ever have been part of the 'old boy' hierarchy anyway!

60

Being shunned only increases my certainty that the WBT$ is a cult

by punkofnice in

well, i don't wanna rant too much but sometimes things cut you don't they.. a family member had a get together for the family, jw and non jw and of course i wasn't invited being da'd.. i understand why they couldn't invite me but it just made me think.

in normal society this wouldn't happen.

i'd have been there.. the shunning is so unnatural and damaging.

Tornintwo

My son stopped attending meetings last year, he was never baptized, he is only 15.

we were recently invited to a close friends anniversary party, they sent the invitation, naming all the family individually and pointedly excluded him. Presumably they thought he'd be a bad influence on the other kids, but he was never df'd, da'd, and he is still a minor. It's shocked me how quick this community are to drop their 'cherished' young ones.

26

I want serious answers from WT leaders, possible?

by Powermetal4ever in

jw
friends

what would happen if i would write a physical letter to, for example, the branch office.

and ask questions about scandals like the ngo thing and other stuff?

or ask questions about wtbs economy, or ask for a annual report, which is something i would really like to read.

Tornintwo

Out of interest on the same subject, if the body of elders suspects you have apostate thinking, or have read apostate stuff (whether or not you've written to the society) and then come to 'encourage' you, surely if you say; 'I'm really confused, I'm praying and reading my bible but I feel that this has stumbled me and I was hoping to find some answers......." and then take whatever counsel they give you, then Surely they can't do anything to you in terms of df-ing? I mean they're not the gestapo?! Or should I be more scared?