Posts by GentlyFeral

212

born again Christians

by ymrah in

.

as i'm having some serious differences with some friends about the born again attitude i would like to get some information on their origins, practices and what they actually believe help me somone please .

ymrah

GentlyFeral

Spanner (to LittleToe):

So essentially what you are saying is that you must be "born again" to become a Christian, which leads to an eternal existence with God?

No, if you read LT's last post, he's perfectly willing to cut the "Christian" middleman out altogether, if that's the way it happens to *you*.

SO, correct me if I am wrong, "born again" Christians are the only "true" Christians,

I believe LT would say you have it backwards: to be connected to god via the Christ "channel" is to be born again and to be a Christian. But he concedes that to be Christian may not be the only way to be born again.

and the only Christians (and indeed people, period), who will gain this "eternal life" and ALL other Christians/people will become "manure", as you put it?

I'm beginning to think that LT sees "being born again" in terms of reclaiming one's natural human birthright. That separation from god is not a punishment but a preventable tragedy.

LT, correct me if I'm wrong...?

GentlyFeral
still universalist

(edited for intellectual clarity)

22

What have you read that helped you?

by yesidid in

jw
friends

my journey out began with this and other ''eyeopening" internet sites [thank you simon].

i have since read ray franz's two books and greg stafford's "dissertations".

although i am very grateful to have found out that my years of questions had a solid base and i now see the wts for what it is, i have decided i need more positives in my life.

GentlyFeral

Try these:

http://firstuucolumbus.org/sermons/mb20020818.htm

24

Did Being A Witness Screw You Up THAT Much???

by minimus in

jw
friends

.

a number of people feel that basically, not only was their life stolen from them because they were witnesses, but because of their being at one time jw's, they are screwed for the rest of their lives.

are you in that category?

GentlyFeral

Finanically -- hell yes! My retirement fund is going to be worth about a quarter of it would be if I had taken the normal "worldly" path of getting a complete education and starting a career in my twenties.

Otherwise? Recovering nicely and getting stranger by the minute. Learning to practice subversion in service to the golden rule, big time.

gently feral

11

How does Church Compare with Kingdom Hall?

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

this is for ex-jw's attending church..... how were your first impressions of a church as compared to your association at the kingdom hall?.

how long was it after you left the wt before attending church?.

were you at first reticent about starting to attend church?.

GentlyFeral

...why on earth do you expect love from your congregation?

This is a misapplication of John 13:34, 35: "A new commandment I [Jesus] give to you, that ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all know that ye are disciples of mine, if ye have love amongst yourselves." The corrollary, of course, is that being fellow-Christians should be enough to base an undying friendship upon.

Why would I expect that variety of perhaps 250 people who see me maybe once a week to love me????? I don't expect the congregation to be a surrogate family.

Another misapplication of scripture -- and there are several prooftexts that are supposed to bear on this issue:

1 John 5: 19: "We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in the wicked [one]."
1 Cor. 15:33: "Do not be deceived: bad association spoils useful habits." (Look at the context and you'll see St. Paul was getting all hot-n-bothered about people questioning the resurrection.)

I have a real family and a busy real life where the church is a part of it, but by no means the central focus.

Well, see, that just marks you as a "worldling" in JW terms. When they say "the whole world lies in the power of the wicked one," they mean the _whole_ world: everything and everyone from Saddam Hussein to George Bush to Britney Spears, with stops along the way to condemn Christmas trees, psychologists and fine cigars. The jaydubs define "good works" and "service to god" extremely narrowly, which is why church attendance can be such a disorienting experience for an exjw.

Why would anyone expect real love from any congregation, JW or otherwise? I am so confused.

Well, I sure wouldn't attend a church where I didn't find the qualities you named in your post: "friendship, support, respect, kindness and courtesy, perhaps affection more from those I am close to." That takes up _most_ of Love's territory, in my experience.

gently feral

28

How much money would it take for you to go out in service?

by unbeliever in

jw
friends

say you had to go out in field service for 2 hours in your neighborhood and talk to your neighbors about jehovah.

what would somebody have to pay you to do this or would you not do it for any amount of money?

if i am going to humilate myself it better be worth my while.

GentlyFeral

ballistic has a point:

If someone stuck a gun to your head and told you to do it, you might.

Yes, but they'd have to walk to every door with me and keep the gun at my head, or I'd make no guarantees ... and of course their presence would be a dead giveaway about my state of mind.

OTOH, if I could do it the Unitarian way -- a free-ranging discussion respectful of all points of view, but with a keen eye on historical research and current scholarship, with coffee and cookies to follow -- I'd do it for expense money.

GentlyFeral

5

Any G/L/B/T X-jws sign in!!!

by NaruNaruChan in

jw
friends

.

any gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgendered x-jws or actives sign in!!!

i'm curious how many are on here!!

GentlyFeral

Me too -- but I was straight when I left. GentlyFeral

16

Offerings at Christian Church's

by goofy in

jw
friends

what do you think about offerings or collection plates being passed at church's?

i sometimes go to this christian church and they pass a plate.

being raised a witness, i sometimes get a weird feeling that they are doing something wrong and it bothers me?

GentlyFeral

Just don't look at me weird if I choose not to put any money in there.

I used to attend a Unitarian Universalist church, where the collection plate is passed without shyness or apology, but...

First-time visitors are told, from the pulpit, that they were guests of the church, and that they did not need to contribute.

GentlyFeral

22

Two Good Things About the French

by metatron in

jw
friends

number one : they don't like the watchtower and can now use their influence over the eu against fraudulent charities like the wts

number two: they are more likely to reject any us influence on the subject of ufos.

this is no joke.

GentlyFeral

3. Rimbaud

2

Pagan ex-JW site

by Introspection in

jw
friends

they still got that up?

is there a chat room there?

GentlyFeral

Nope, it's gone. There is a pagan xjw list at Yahoo.com:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/exjwpagans

It's not very active or very deep.

BTW. I added an xjw pagan page to my site. It's a combo of "don't be scared" and "paganism 101" at present, but if y'all email me suggestions, it could grow.

Magic, Healing & Paganism: a website for former Jehovah's Witnesses

GentlyFeral

14

The Whore of Babylon

by Gamaliel in

visiting a few jw/xjw forums lately, i'm reminded of phrases that have been never been brought to mind for 25 years.

(king of the north, jonadabs, etc, etc.

) i got to thinking again about that infamous old harlot, babylon the great.

GentlyFeral

if the harlot is Christendom, how does she get paid? Obviously, she is paid by 404(b), 170(c) or 501(c) type tax breaks that religions and charities get when they apply for non-profit filing status. The problem is that JWs also ask for this same harlot's wage for services rendered. But JWs don't put out. I mean, they rarely give anything charitable back to the nations. They don't build hospitals, run blood drives, give clothing to the poor, or give out toys for tots at Christmas time.

I'm having trouble with your analogy, here; how is this anything like illicit sex? Hell, it doesn't even violate the Golden Rule!

I'm too Bible-allergic to actually do any serious thinking about this, but I'm not at all sure that Babylon the Great has anything to do with Christendom. Just because she's "a whore" doesn't mean she was cheating on the bible-god.

GentlyFeral