in the sept. wt, it mentions.
144,000 brothers and "other sheep".
now, since the sheep are not referred to as brothers also, could this mean they are :.
cameo-d - Unless I missed it somewhere, you haven't answered the question: How long were you a Witness? Or were you a Witness at all?
The answer to the question you posed is easily known by most people who have ever been associated with the Watchtower (especially baptized JW's). There are a LOT of statements made in the Study versions of the WT magazine that no longer require further explanation. They simply are "truth" to every Witness. It's as simple as that.
millions now living will never die!
(i sure heard this a lot over the years).....what a mindfluck!
!...i was spoonfed this from the birth, but you must feel really stoopid if bought into this as an adult and joined this outfit.....(let me know, cause i would feel stoopid and feel stoopid for not walking in 1995 when they decided the the generation of 1914 was not a real generation)....notice they continue this mindfluck teaching even after 1995....oompa.
Yeah, our generation was so special that we finally realized we were gonna pass away! Sucks!
hi everyone.... just curious how many of you knew when you were active, about the societys official teaching regarding jesus the mediator.
i was floored to find in my research, that they teach jesus is the mediator for the 144,000 only.
and it is only by our association with them that we might have salvation.. i don't know about you guys but i was blown away when i learned they taught this.
As a born-in, I never knew. It was something that, I guess, never really popped up anywhere for me. Once I was on my way out, this definitely confirmed to me that the JW religion was dead wrong. I mean, how can you receive salvation by simply associating with the anointed? That's not what the Bible says. But many JW's accept it... So sad.
it actually all started a bit stronger when mj died.
he loves his music and curiousity got the better of him and he started to google everything about him and jws.
he was also watching a lot of youtube videos.
Glad to hear about your husband! He's making real progress outta that cult!
The thing about the whole blood doctrine is that it has gotten really, really messy. I recently spoke to an aunt about how she would have let my grandmother die rather than try to explain to the doctors which fractions are acceptable (or how to explain what blood procedures are acceptable altogether). I was stunned because the GB has had such a terrifying effect on these JW's. Rather than try to understand why it's OK to accept fractions or blood products, JW's would rather die! They feel that Jehovah is going to look at them as an acceptable sacrifice...but He's not! I've also been showing some detailed information about the blood doctrine to my mom, and she couldn't believe that "fractions" were taken from blood! She thought fractions were simply conjured up out of "other things". For example, I showed her that the Society allows JW's to accept all of the fractions taken from plasma, just not plasma itself. And she stopped, and stared, and started thinking. I let it slide for the rest of that day, but I plan to continue with her. She wasn't mad at me showing her this. If anything, she was glad, and she even stated that she just didn't know enough.
I personally believe that EVEN IF the GB decided to allow all JW's to accept all blood products, JW's would STILL feel that it's wrong, and that it's OK to die instead. That's the key part: It's OK to die, Jehovah will overlook it.
It takes a LOT of time and patience, but one by one, we can extract our families from this evil cult...
serena meets obama at white housewashington (ap) -- before heading off to st. louis to throw the first pitch at the major league baseball all-star game, president barack obama welcomed wimbledon champion serena williams to the white house.. williams said: "i love president obama; he has such an unbelievable presence, and he seems to be so normal -- and he noticed my shoes.
i think that was the highlight of the whole day, was he liked my shoes.".
williams said she was wearing 5-inch (13-centimeter) heels for the presidential visit.. she said: "he asked me, 'should i be wearing high heels?
She probably brought him a copy of that 80's Awake that 'predicted' (I use that term loosely) the current economic status.
what was the biggest scandals[or incidents] in your own congregations that got you starting to doubt whether the watchtower was what it made itself out to be?.
one the things for me was the attitude of the people in the congregation after i had took some time off meetings and then returned again.i quickly realized there was no unconditional love only conditional love.also when the watchtower had a letter read out from the platform warning us to not watch the bbc panarama documentary on the watchtowers child abuse problems.and everyone just avoided watching it and said that it was "satan"trying to use anything to get us out the "truth".
.
There were a few people who committed adultery in my old congo. The announcements would come out that so-and-so has been D/F or whatever. Most of these came back and are currently active JW's. It was these and other similar events that rocked my boat, leading me to believe that all was not well in the bOrganization. Of course, it was all attributed to the Devil's work, that he lead these people to commit these things.
the following notes on fred franz's conducting of the morning bible discussion [17 november 1979] were taken by a bethelite and later given to ray franz:.
some persons are now talking about reading the bible, that we should read "just the bible.
" well, that's what christendom's churches have been telling the people to do for centuries and look at the mess that's resulted.
When Freddie said what he said that morning in Bethel, he said it because he really meant it. He felt that that was the true purpose of the Society, and everything else was 2nd rate. Since he had been around since before 1914, I'd venture to say that most JW's respected and adored him, some calling him "the oracle" (I never met the man, but I still held him in high esteem when I was a JW).
Now that he's gone, the current leadership has no "oracle" and they're truly lost. I think there's an underlying fear of losing the whole flock, that's why there's been such an emphasis on deifying the GB. Without something to work towards, like an end date, the current GB is appealing to fear and tyranny to keep it together. Without that fear of the GB, every JW would be lost. They don't know how to have a real, spiritual, private relationship with their Creator.
2009 bearing thorough witness about god's kingdom--pdf!
(all credit goes to yknot) bookmarked searchable reduced click the link at the bottom of the next page.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/mc7ofr cheers!
Thank you so much! I've been skimming through the book this morning, and it seems to be heavy-handed in trying to prove there was a Governing Body in the 1st century.
2009 the bible-what is its message-brochure--pdf!
we thank "yknot" dearly for sending the brochure and book for scanning.
i will start on the book in a few hours, but have to get a little shut-eye and then will continue.
I agree with Thomas15 above. The points that the Watchtower brings out still require hopscotching across the Bible and reading into the texts something that is not there to prove those points. Just look at Point #7, and think of all the scriptures required to make that point (and I bet you don't even stay within the same book). It's the same game, the same house, with re-arranged rooms and walls.
I also seriously doubt they [the GB] would EVER try to not place the organization first in JW's lives. The organization is EVERYTHING. Without it, every JW is lost. But because they believe it is God's Organization, it is EVERYTHING.
If anything, the brochure is there to raise questions for the householder (or at least that is what the GB would like). For example, look at Point #6. The householder may ask, "When did Jehovah enthrone his Son as King, and how do we know we are in the last days?" This would then prompt the JW to show that householder some proof-texts.
following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.
i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?
consider these two scriptures:.
Myself, after coming out of the Watchtower nightmare, I don't subscribe to everything so easily anymore.
I can only speak about my own personal experience, so what follows is my own understanding...
After re-reading most of the Bible, especially the New Testament, I have come to the conclusion that Jesus is the YHWH of the OT. I agree with Snowbird when she quotes John 8:58 (there are various other texts as well). Another text that clinched it for me was Amos 4:10, 11, and here is why: In verse 10 it is understood that YHWH is speaking. Then as you continue reading verse 11, the Bible reads "I [YHWH] overthrew some of you as God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah." In this one simple verse, two people are identified so easily. It makes perfect sense why Jesus would call God his FATHER, and himself the SON. God is a FAMILY. I can understand perfectly now that they are both God (because YHWH is identified as GOD also in hundreds of other verses).
Just my opinion...
