Posts by ghenrymt

1

Negative / positive

by ghenrymt in

i'm not sure what the appropriate area for this post might be.

maybe it is here, since i am going to ask about your personal beliefs and practices.. it is so easy to write negative posts abut the things we hate in religion, in people's mindsets, and in the world in general.

let's try posting about positive things.

ghenrymt

I'm not sure what the appropriate area for this post might be. Maybe it is here, since I am going to ask about your personal beliefs and practices.

It is so easy to write negative posts abut the things we hate in religion, in people's mindsets, and in the world in general. Let's try posting about positive things. How about this: What is your ideal world? How would you like to see the world change in your lifetime? And how far do you realistically think humanity can move in that direction, in a decade or a century? What can you and I do to help bring about the change?

Personally, I am not really interested in more about how the world is 'going to hell in a handbasket.' We all know that humanity has serious problems. Not all of us believe we should spend all of our time preaching and teaching Borgism (or some other religion) while watching things go from bad to worse. Quite possibly, while some things are getting worse, others are getting better, and we can find reasons for hope. Let's try to keep the discussion basically positive, shall we?

Trying to provide some food for positive thought and feelings.

Love and regards,
George

I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery
than live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it.
- Harry Emerson Fosdick

5

Piety????

by wonderwoman77 in

i am reading a book called "the blessings of imperfection: reflection on the mystery of everyday life" by peter fleck and he makes some remarkable statements about piety and believing there is only one answer to spiritual and religious beliefs.

he says "pietism can also be expressed in the relationship between the individual and other individuals, that is as adams puts it with the other saints, with the chosen few, chosen by me, those who think as i do, live as i do, who are well clad and fed as i am, who do not disturb my inner harmony with questions of justice, equality, and freedom.

theirs is a relationship of partiality against with james warns 'if you show partiality, you commit sin.

ghenrymt

Dearest WW,

Like you, I am soooo fed up with all that judgmental stuff. If that is what Jehovah is all about, then I will worship other gods. If that is what Jesus is all about, then I will forego "salvation."

I spent too many years, decades even, crippled by the notion that I am fundamentally "bad" or "wicked," and headed for adverse judgment (hell or eternal destruction) if I don't spend essentially all my time in this life working my butt off to prove to God that I love him, by preaching the message of judgment and redemption to others.

What the WTS and Jehovah's Witnesses ultimately did "for" me was to separate me from any god who is much like the Jehovah they describe. I can tolerate and respect, even delight in, Christians who are open-minded and non-judgmental. I stay as far away as possible from the other kind.

I even got past caring whether I would be judged and destroyed. I chose to remove the burden of Borg-imposed suffering (constant guilt, worry, and pressure to conform and "do good" according to the WTS's definition) from myself in this life, regardless of the eternal consequences. Some will call this cracking, and breaking my integrity under pressure. I see it more as being true to myself - adhering to MY OWN integrity, rather than the Borg's idea of integrity. It took me over 30 years to figure this out, BTW. I'd say it was a thoroughly-considered decision.

I do not feel adversely judged by God and headed for destruction. I know this doesn't mean anything. I used to feel that I had a good relationship overall with Jehovah and Jesus because of being a Witness in good standing, and I now see that feeling as having been based on nothing but the activity of my own brain cells. But like you, I am seeking peace within myself. If I can find that, then perhaps I will be more qualified to move outward from myself and explore what the Universe has to offer in spiritual terms.

I do not believe that spirituality has anything to do with being an active JW or involved in some fundamentalist church. That may be spiritual for some people; it may suit their level of awareness and their current stage of development. I don't know if my own mindset if more enlightened, although I sincerely hope so; but I know that kind of scenario is something that I can't see myself returning to - the Scripture about 'the dog returning to its own vomit' comes to mind. If that is the only kind of true sprituality, then I will be an atheist; but my in operating notion of reality it is NOT the only kind of spirituality. I tend to think of it as pretty much anti-spirituality, if anything - but again, it works for some people, and may be a necessary part of their development.

Love and regards,
George

I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery
than live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it.
- Harry Emerson Fosdick

16

Is CONSCIOUNESS a Type of Quantum Knowledge?

by D wiltshire in

"quantum reality" by nick herbert .

page248 subheading:.

is consciouness a type of quantum knowledge?.

ghenrymt

No. But what, specifically, is your point? This sounds like a book I would be interested in reading, but I can't comment intelligently unless you elaborate on your purpose in posting the quote.

Best regards,
George

I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery
than live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it.
- Harry Emerson Fosdick

27

Love amongst the "brothers"

by Thirdson in

the one thing that jws claim is the love they have for one another.

i am well aware of some of the things that have been done in the congregation for members and i believe real love was shown.

in times of natural disaster jws have been very good at caring for their own.

ghenrymt

All you have to do to lose your JW friends, generally speaking (there are exceptions, here and there), is to mention that you are having "problems," or are finding it difficult to get to meetings due to your circumstances. I am thinking, in particular, of all the superficially loving people in our former congregation in Florida, after my wife and I moved to California.

Out of about ten people who gave us their email addresses and promised to stay in contact, there were two, as I recall, who made any actual effort to stay in contact by answering our emails - which were very positive at first, nothing even remotely objectionable about them: "Things are going well with us, hope you are doing well, we miss you." - That sort of stuff. And then as our circumstances deteriorated, so did our relationships with our so-called "friends." I suppose they figured that if we were having "problems" (practical in nature, but affecting our spiritual lives), the local elders should be handling it - and if they weren't, we should sink or swim on our own. In any case, "Jehovah provides for his own."

- George

I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery
than live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it.
- Harry Emerson Fosdick

7

A story of JW hate and avarice, and a question

by ghenrymt in

please click here to read my story: http://www.geocities.com/ghenrymt/george.story.htm.. the story is not about how i became a witness, my experiences as a jw, how i left, and where i am now spiritually.

i will probably be inclined to post all that another time.

this story is about how i got into a lot of trouble, a deep pit financially and legally, by being a sincere jw and trusting my ex-wife (who is supposed to be a sincere jw also) farther than i can spit a rat.. i'm wondering if anyone knows of an attorney, preferably an ex-jw or someone who is familiar with jws and family law issues, who would be willing to provide me some general guidance.

ghenrymt

Okay, I have given it some time and no one seems moved to comment on the informatoinal contents. That's fine. Probably you will be more interested in my spiritual/religious odyssey. I'll post about that some time. Started writing a book, actually, but since there is no ending to it really, I am not esp. motivated. It's not something that can be easily or satisfactorily summarized in a few words, either. But I will try, later....

Love and regards,
George

I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery
than live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it.
- Harry Emerson Fosdick

7

A story of JW hate and avarice, and a question

by ghenrymt in

please click here to read my story: http://www.geocities.com/ghenrymt/george.story.htm.. the story is not about how i became a witness, my experiences as a jw, how i left, and where i am now spiritually.

i will probably be inclined to post all that another time.

this story is about how i got into a lot of trouble, a deep pit financially and legally, by being a sincere jw and trusting my ex-wife (who is supposed to be a sincere jw also) farther than i can spit a rat.. i'm wondering if anyone knows of an attorney, preferably an ex-jw or someone who is familiar with jws and family law issues, who would be willing to provide me some general guidance.

ghenrymt

http://www.geocities.com/ghenrymt/george.story.htm Yep yep, that's it. Mr. Magoo is on top of things. Many thanks. (I went back and edited my original post, which directed you to "geoctites.com" - whatever THAT is!)

- George

I would rather live in a world where my life is surrounded by mystery
than live in a world so small that my mind could comprehend it.
- Harry Emerson Fosdick

5

my story so far

by jerome in

this is the story of how i came to join this board.. i can tell you straight of that this story isnt as sad as probally any of yours so dont expect any tears.. first let me say that i am not now nor have i ever been a jehovah witness.. then why am i here then?.

well the next obvious anwser would be that a loved one or close .

friend is involved in this organisation.. well actually its my girl friend.. so how did i manage to get involved with a jw girl?.

ghenrymt

Hi Jerome,

You are obviously a very caring and somewhat analytical person, going to all this trouble to learn about your girlfriend's religion.

In your other post you asked about Crisis of Conscience. Seems to me it would be a good book to pry a JW loose (a little or a lot) from their faith, IF they allowed themselves to read it with a halfway open mind. I have stated elsewhere that my impression of Ray Franz is that "he has more integrity in his little finger than most Witnesses have in their entire bodies," and I think this is a point that HAS TO impress anyone who reads the book, if they are concerned about such things.

In my case, I started decisively moving away from the harmful Watchtower cult (as I now view it) when I reviewed my life and realized how much harm and how little real benefit being a Witness had caused me. That was after over 30 years of association. Smarter people tend to realize this sooner.

I also read a book (Fuzzy Thinking, by Bart Kosko) - that has nothing in particular to do with religion, but that proves that both sides of a contradiction can be uequally true, or true in a meaningful sense. And when I say "proves," I mean my view of the world underwent a fundamental paradigm shift because of this book, and after I finished it, I realized that the Witnesses' idea that they have the "one true religion" is just stupid, for lack of a better word. It's part of a very narrow, dunderheaded, and mnot particularly useful view of reality.

You have to realize that in many ways, the WTS is sill living intellectually in the 19th century. Their approach to Biblical exegesis and hermeneutics is very 19th-century, following reasoning methods that owe more to philosophers like Aristotle and Descartes than anything truly Biblical.

The most they can do to justify their approach is point to some instances where Jesus and Paul (and others?) used multiple proof texts to estabilish a doctrinal point. The Society appears to think that every question must have an answer, and they squeeze and crumple the Bible to no end to try to extract one. No wonder the answers they come up with are so often so bizarre and distorted!

I have run out of time, have to run to an appointment. I hope this helps just a bit.

Love and regards,
George

67

Spirits/Entities - A question for all.

by Nemesis in

i would like to ask a question if i might: how do ones here view spirits?

(not the alcoholic kind) i have left the org.

now for at least 5 years, although i did go to the memorial last year, but not where i used to go to the hall; i was not df or da.. .

ghenrymt

You can write to me if you want to discuss these matters outside of the forum - ghenrymt "at" hotmail.com (you know, replace the word "at" and the spaces with the appropriate symbol).

George

67

Spirits/Entities - A question for all.

by Nemesis in

i would like to ask a question if i might: how do ones here view spirits?

(not the alcoholic kind) i have left the org.

now for at least 5 years, although i did go to the memorial last year, but not where i used to go to the hall; i was not df or da.. .

ghenrymt

Nemesis,

I doubt that you need a medical doctor to diagnose or cure this for you. If you are going to pay for someone's help, I suggest you contact the Spiritual Emergence Network via http://www.ciis.edu/comserv/sen.html, or perhaps find a shamanic teacher to guide you.

Contact with spirits has not been a feature of my life, though it is an aspect of human existence that I am sorry to have missed out on thus far. If life rewards me with the measure of freedom necessary to cultivate spirituality in that sense, I hope to take advantage of the freedom.

Since I left the Witnesses, I have fallen in with several people (one an ex-Witness herself) who practice shamanism. They are fine folks, and very very far from crazy, or in need of anyone's "help."

Love and regards,
George

7

A story of JW hate and avarice, and a question

by ghenrymt in

please click here to read my story: http://www.geocities.com/ghenrymt/george.story.htm.. the story is not about how i became a witness, my experiences as a jw, how i left, and where i am now spiritually.

i will probably be inclined to post all that another time.

this story is about how i got into a lot of trouble, a deep pit financially and legally, by being a sincere jw and trusting my ex-wife (who is supposed to be a sincere jw also) farther than i can spit a rat.. i'm wondering if anyone knows of an attorney, preferably an ex-jw or someone who is familiar with jws and family law issues, who would be willing to provide me some general guidance.

ghenrymt

Please click here to read my story: http://www.geocities.com/ghenrymt/george.story.htm.

The story is not about how I became a Witness, my experiences as a JW, how I left, and where I am now spiritually. I will probably be inclined to post all that another time. This story is about how I got into a lot of trouble, a deep pit financially and legally, by being a sincere JW and trusting my ex-wife (who is supposed to be a sincere JW also) farther than I can spit a rat.

I'm wondering if anyone knows of an attorney, preferably an ex-JW or someone who is familiar with JWs and family law issues, who would be willing to provide me some general guidance. I am already doing all I can to establish a relationship with an attorney who can handle my case directly.

I think it makes sense to agree to pay an attorney thousands of dollars, if the attorney has a good chance of putting a stop to my ex's attempts to extract tens of thousands from me. In either case, I don't know where the money will come from. I expect to die broke and in debt, no matter how long I live.

And yet, most of the time, I am a happy and upbeat person.

Love and regards,
George Henry