After reading Elaine Pagels book “The Gnostic Gospels,” I’ve wondered if there’s ever been a statement made by the WTBS regarding the origins of the NWT, besides the painstaking efforts made to keep the translation “accurate” despite how the rest of the world translated the Bible. As JW’s we were taught to follow the example set forth for and by the first century Christians, however no doubt many of those first century Christians were or became “Catholic” as at the time that was the first “legitimate,” or universal, Christian church established in spite of opposition and persecution from the Romans. In essence the Great Harlot herself defined many things that modern day JW’s still see as fact. The Catholic church is also responsible for determining the final Bible canon that the NWT is based off of. I always scratched my head when we were told that surely in the dark ages there were faithful Christians to carry on the good news and remain faithful to Jehovah despite not having an organization to be associated with. So then with that argument, it would also apply to the first century Christians, who based on environment and political climate disseminated into the church that was established throughout the first and second centuries: The Catholic Church. Does anyone know of statements made in publications addressing these facts?
Posts by feenx
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9NWT based off a Catholic chosen canon, WTBS ever comment on?
by feenx inafter reading elaine pagels book the gnostic gospels, ive wondered if theres ever been a statement made by the wtbs regarding the origins of the nwt, besides the painstaking efforts made to keep the translation accurate despite how the rest of the world translated the bible.
as jws we were taught to follow the example set forth for and by the first century christians, however no doubt many of those first century christians were or became catholic as at the time that was the first legitimate, or universal, christian church established in spite of opposition and persecution from the romans.
in essence the great harlot herself defined many things that modern day jws still see as fact.
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The Culability of Jehovah's Witnesses and Pedophilia
by AllTimeJeff inthe subject of pedophilia and the sexual abuse of children often is complicated.
by that i don't mean that it is complicated to know how to deal with pedophiles.
they have a despicable problem in their minds and need to be identified and controlled for all children's sake as well as for their own sake.
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feenx
As a survivor I can tell you that many, including myself, were and continue to be discouraged from not only reporting abuse to authorities but also do not see the relevance in doing so. As lucky as I was to have parents who believed and supported my revelations of abuse and got me into therapy, they also were and remain so very strong with "faith" and "trust" in Jehovah that the implication and lack of action always re-inforced in me that despite how at the immediate time things may not feel right, Jehovah and "his organization" will take care of things in due time. Over the course of years I know for me this had the affect of desensitizing me to abuse. In fact it came to be a normal thing to move on from in my mind. When I would hear about another case of abuse, as my parents in their efforts to move on and heal made friends with other survivors or parents of children who had also been victims, it came to be a normal thing for me. I literally had a bigger outwardly reaction when I found out someone had gotten in trouble for something very routine, like booze or drugs or sex.
In all reality, let me stress that, in all REALITY, the Elders themselves don't have to say something specific, or remain silent on a matter for a victim to feel suppressed and unable, unwilling and confused about how or why to talk to Police. Many never even get counseling, which I was fortunate enough to get. This is caused by the overall influence the society has over publishers. If for your entire life you are told that Jehovah watches and reacts, positively or negatively, to literally every action to take or refrain from, and that his Earthly organization is his representative in every matter, everything from your hair style to your clothes to your attitude to what you do and dont with yourself in the shower...then tell me exactly how something so major as being molested by yet another member of this same community is to be viewed as somehow different, and an outsider is now somehow supposed to be involved.
In a child's mind, who has been raised in the organization, they've already had their boundaries skewed well before they were molested. Now you add yet another layer of individuality that's been taken away, by someone inside the very community that is representing the all authoritative Jehovah. Surely this, just like everything else, is handled by the Elders.
In that instance the Elders don't need to encourage or discourage going to the Police. It's already been ingrained in that victim that doing so is going outside of God. -
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did anyone on here ever have a paedophile in thier congregation?
by looloo inif so, did it bother you that he had been reprooved and forgiven rather than reported to the police?
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feenx
I think at the time when I was around an abuser in my hall my boundaries and sense of "reality" in that area were so blurred it was hard for me think about him being reported to the police, or anybody being reported. As far as I saw things the Elders were "the law". All my stuff with my own grandfather had never been reported, why would this guy? My parents knew, or at the very least had a really good idea, of what was going on with this guy and his family. And I know of at least one occasion when he lost all his privileges, whether he was reproved or not I don't know, there was never an announcement made. That was the extent of it. And I believe the Elders were encouraging the wife at first to stay with him, then that changed and they allowed a separation. She switched halls, the daughter did her own thing and the husband moved across the country. Now the mother is not active, the daughter is totally out and as far as anyone knows the father is still in perfectly good standing.
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Never Thought About Suicide. Why not?
by Nosferatu ini was doing some thinking this morning about my mother, when she said she wanted to "work on our bond" over a pizza, and i pretty much didn't bother with the offer.
i was thinking about how i'd confronted her before my boy was born about all the physical abuse which she denied.
i started thinking back to that time in my life, when i would shake uncontrollably thinking about school, let alone actually going to school.
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feenx
I've often considered the same thing in myself. I wonder what it is about me that somehow is different than the rest of family that has motivated to me to push away the religion and work towards healing myself. I believe as the others have said that part of it just who we are as people, we are all different. Some of us process things differently, and some of us have a higher threshold for pain. Still though the confusion with not seeing suicide as an answer, in spite of all these terrible things, when many people have taken that road before you, can be frustrating. I think the fact that my mother had multiple suicide attempts helped me to stay away from it. In her case it really only made things worse and caused more internal battle. And you're right, the help that she got in that environment was not everything she needed. Less leaning on "jehovah" and more/better therapy would've made a difference.
I think though it's awesome that you fought and now have a life with a family to show for it. Very impressive! -
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did you enjoy your first cigarette?
by inkling innot only am i not a smoker, i have never even tried smoking of any kind (besides a weird .
half hearted attempt at smoking blackberry tea from a homemade wooden pipe.
friends of mine who smoke, besides the complicated layers of guilt, talk about a basic .
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feenx
I don't think I really had any like or dislike for my first smoke. I was 18 and pretty drunk and I think I was more concerned about doing it "right" than anything else. I still smoke, but usually only when I'm drinking or sometimes with friends at work here and there. And over the several years I've consistently smoked (as in haven't gone more than a week or so without one) I have yet to feel that nicotine itch. For me it seems to be more of a social choice. Case in point. I've been sick now for four f*cking weeks. A buddy and I were talking on Friday about how when he's sick he still can't completely stop from smoking, he gets all pissy. I told him that I hadn't even thought about a smoke, wasn't a big deal for me to not smoke.
I think it really just depends on the person. But I hafta say, when I have a few beers in me and I have a cigarette....it's damn good. That's how I started smoking, was with drinking, and that's why I still smoke. If I never drank I doubt I'd smoke at all. -
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Went my first ever Catholic wedding this weekend...
by feenx inand holy shite what an interesting ceremony.
talk about a lot of tradition.
and standing.
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feenx
and holy shite what an interesting ceremony. Talk about a lot of tradition. And standing. up down up and down again. And I have never knew that it was tradition to go before the statue of Mary and ask for her help in marriage. After my upbringing, and all my research since my exodus from the borg, I consider myself very accepting of all belief systems, although I have to say there are just some silly things that go along with beliefs. I'm sure all religions have silly things about them, and I got a prime display of the Catholic side of things on Saturday.
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Are You Ever Afraid To Post Your Views On This Board?
by minimus indo you ever get nervous making a post, knowing that perhaps you''re going to get "picked on" in one way or another??
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feenx
I agree, all the different types of people on here make things interesting. Everyone from the prophecy peeps, the end of the world is coming to conspiracies to jacked up elders to remember when we used to have to do such and such to anal sex to whatever may come up.
I try and keep my responses respectful, but there is no way in hell I'd ever hold back from something I felt needed to be said. Isn't that the point of this board? -
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Crazy Idea...or is it? Something similar to the Truth tobacco campaigns
by feenx inhey everbody,
i think it would be great, yet i dont know how plausible it would be, to launch an organized campaign against the wtbs similar what the truth about tobacco people do.
every so often they have a coordinated display to draw attention to tobacco companies as well as the general public about the dangers of smoking, second hand smoke, etc.
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feenx
Well yes, while it may be true (I say may because I haven't seen a number of decrease shown attributed to the net) that the internet has slowed JW growth, the fact still remains that there are 6.5 million baptized members and many more who are studying and working towards baptism. While the internet helps those still having their doors knocked on, what about the people already in? What about those of us who were raised in it and literally know nothing different? I agree that it is like David and Goliath trying to take down the WTBS. But the WTBS is an organization. If they crumbled that doesn't mean that JW's would suddenly disperse and cease to exist. Because they have enough loyal followers who would still practice and follow what they see is right. So perhaps the other way to approach things is on a personal level. The end of the society would not solve the JW problem. It would simply change it. In order to solve it not only must people stop joining, but the ones already in must see the reality of things. That is the level to which I think must be appealed.
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Crazy Idea...or is it? Something similar to the Truth tobacco campaigns
by feenx inhey everbody,
i think it would be great, yet i dont know how plausible it would be, to launch an organized campaign against the wtbs similar what the truth about tobacco people do.
every so often they have a coordinated display to draw attention to tobacco companies as well as the general public about the dangers of smoking, second hand smoke, etc.
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feenx
That's a very good point. JW's would probably see something like that as yet another sign of "persecution" or some other form of proof that they are right and it is "the truth." BUT if they have to contend with people asking questions in service or at work/school, then they are forced to look at things a different way.
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Crazy Idea...or is it? Something similar to the Truth tobacco campaigns
by feenx inhey everbody,
i think it would be great, yet i dont know how plausible it would be, to launch an organized campaign against the wtbs similar what the truth about tobacco people do.
every so often they have a coordinated display to draw attention to tobacco companies as well as the general public about the dangers of smoking, second hand smoke, etc.
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feenx
Hey everbody,
I think it would be great, yet I dont know how plausible it would be, to launch an organized campaign against the WTBS similar what the Truth about Tobacco people do. Every so often they have a coordinated display to draw attention to tobacco companies as well as the general public about the dangers of smoking, second hand smoke, etc. etc.
Wouldn't it be great if those of use around the world could do something similar for JW's? Just an example off the top of my head....let's see I know that a lot of people dont know anything about Silentlambs or the recent settlements or rebuttal J.R. Brown gave to NBC admitting they had a database for child molestors. What if all on the same sunday we all put some type of flyer or something similar on the cars of all the Witnesses inside for their meetings. Surely if it was an organized effort in multiple locations it would create some buzz, perhaps lead people here or other places.....
Thoughts, ideas, feedback or criticism?