pseattle2

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Posts by pseattle2

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  20

  Info conferance call

  by mouthy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  we are having a live phone conference on friday march 28 from 9p.m.

  and rick and i were wondering if you could please give the information to your contacts.

  it is for jehovah's witnesses and former witnesses as well as anyone else who is interested in knowing about the witnesses.

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  pseattle2

  "Motivational speaker"? I got out of the JW's expressly because I wanted to avoid "motivational speakers."
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  383

  Thinking of becoming a Witness again and my reasons for doing so :(

  by reniaa in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i've been a faded jw for 10 years i left because of my failed first marriage, i'm no hypocrite and realised i had left completely so i embraced the world and dived in, only christmas and birthdays i could not get into, they were too foreign to me having never celebrated them, like if i suddenly tried to do ramadan or something like that.. 1/ all the criticisms of the people in the truth you say on here, i've found in the world, warts and all only in the world nothing holds them back from being utterly horrible to you.. 2/ i got stabbed by a worldly boyfriend, i got married 2 times of my own choosing to men outside the truth, the first smoked and was an alcoholic, the second gambled every penny we had and defrauded me out of money after we separated, 2 divorces later i am currently pregnant and a single mum since current boyfriend decided kids was to much of a responsibility and he needed his freedom and i was 'too selfish to expect him to give up his life'.. 3/ parents-in-law!

  i have been shunned by them as equal to anything you accuse witness families of and for the silliest of reasons, i had a disabled son and his grandparents said they wanted nothing to do with him because they didn't want to become attached in case he died.. 4/ i miss the honest friendships of the truth, i had friends of all ages from 14 to 80 years old and they genuinely cared for me, many trying to keep me in the faith a long time after i left but i was determined to fade so moved away completely, but i find friendships in the world so shallow in comparison and very hard to sustain :( i've never been a drinker and sometimes thats what friendship means you being a companion for them to goto pub with.. 5/ my recent boyfriend was in a christian religion, i thought why not find out about it, harvest churches if you ever heard of them, unfortunately it still hasn't stop him leaving me pregnant and alone and when i said to him how does he clear that with god, he replies "as long as i repent it doesn't matter" it's like he has a "get out of jail free card" for any wrong-doing in the bible, this is so alien to me and my witness trained conscience.. 6/ i recently out of frustration tried looking into atheism and joined their forums, it wasn't fun, they are as bombastic and arrogant as their religious counterparts can be from any religion, they make a religion out of not believing in god, it's very weird they talk of saving people from believing in god and offer nothing to replace it.

  they said to me "be happy you are in reality now and enjoy it" and i thought "well if this is reality i've had enough of it".

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  pseattle2

  After I'd been out of the JW's for 10 years, I got married to a self-professed born again Christian. Three years and countless affairs for which she'd been "forgiven," it was over. Many of my relationships from that point had moments of unsettling abuse. I drank quite a bit. I hated myself. And my mother, of course, tried to tell me that there were plenty of suitable partners for me back in "the truth." Only it wasn't the truth. You know it's not the truth either.

  The thing is, I stuck it out just a little bit longer. I made more careful choices. I did a lot more introspection, sometimes with therapy, sometimes with friends. I had to build my own support network, because nobody else was going to do it for me, and I was far too stubborn to fall back into a decision I knew was wrong.

  Eventually it worked. I struggled and built friendships from the ground up. Those friends multiplied into other friends. At the end of it all, I got into a happy marriage with two beautiful children, and (this is the kicker) an actual career with people who respect me as I do them.

  Plenty of people return to cults because they're all they've ever known. I understand the world's been tough on you. I'd just ask you to tough it out a little bit more, to look at some options you might've rejected because they seemed too hard or too involved. There is a lot more support than you've come across. I guarantee it.

  At the end, you have to ask yourself: Are you willing to defend Jehovah's Witnesses as we've come to know them? The pedophilia scandals, the blood scandals, the recently changed (again) New Light, the isolation from the rest of the world, the division, the moral turpitude of Bethel? Because if you go back in, you'll have to defend every single one of those aspects of Jehovah's Witnesses, or they just won't let you back in all the way.

  That's not the love you're seeking.

  Please take care.

  --P
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  20

  73% of JW's leave "The Truth." Jehovah's Witnesses 2008 statistics revisted

  by Spook in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i participated in several discussions on this forum regarding the self reported statistics of jehovah's witnesses and the deep fundamental flaws in their methods.

  after arguing with my jw family about these issues, i encountered today a new independant religious survey from the pew forum on religion and public life.

  this survey was huge in scope of test group when compared with other similar surveys, including more than 35,000 u.s. adults.

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  pseattle2

  Slight correction to your math: It should be 63% of JW's leaving the truth. 100 minus 37 is 63.
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  118

  Losch reveals newer new light at Australia Zone Visit

  by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  okay everybody, grab your barf bag because i just got a steaming shovel full of craptastic notes from gerrit's zone visit to the land down under !!.

  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ read at your own risk ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~puke.

  zone overseer was losch and his side kick was a big black guy, quite a scolar, cant remember his name though.

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  pseattle2

  11. The scripture in Zechariah 14:12 COULD be literal, to quote direct " Jehovah could use radiation"

  Oh, right on! This could form the basis for a whole new JW ban on microwave ovens, like blood. More Hot Pockets for us!
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  4

  Time Mag: JW's Experience Lots of "Masked Churn"

  by pseattle2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1716987,00.html.

  last week we learned that jw's are the fastest-growing religion in america, with between 2-3% growth nationwide.

  but the survey in question also noted that the turnover rate in jw's is alarmingly high:.

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  pseattle2

  http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1716987,00.html

  Last week we learned that JW's are the fastest-growing religion in America, with between 2-3% growth nationwide. But the survey in question also noted that the turnover rate in JW's is alarmingly high:

  An even more extreme example of what might be called "masked churn" is the relatively tiny Jehovah's Witnesses, with a turnover rate of about two-thirds. That means that two-thirds of the people who told (the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life) they were raised Jehovah's Witnesses no longer are — yet the group attracts roughly the same number of converts. Notes (Pew Director Luis) Lugo, "No wonder they have to keep on knocking on doors."

  In another report, at http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j1IgIhgpbmb1vaGeYJjrLd_8SkkQD8V1F9GO0:

  Hindus claimed the highest retention of childhood members, at 84 percent. The group with the worst retention is one of the fastest growing — Jehovah's Witnesses. Only 37 percent of those raised in the sect known for door-to-door proselytizing said they remain members.

  I'm encouraged. A little.

  --P
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  22

  So I called the headquarters.

  by DT in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i've never done this before, but i wanted to be involved with the informal campaign to call the headquarters on or around the first day of each month.

  i haven't even spoken to a witness since i da'd.

  i had very modest goals for this call.

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  pseattle2

  I was one of the people against this campaign but I gotta admit, it sounds like you handled it pretty admirably, DT.

  --P
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  24

  Do the Governing body know they are being dishonest?

  by strawberry cake in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i wonder if anyone has any ideas on this.

  who, what is behind the wts.

  is it just men genuinely making mistakes but are sincerely trying to serve god?

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  pseattle2

  My personal hunch is that a typical GB member, in the process of ascending the ranks, fully believes it's the truth.

  I keep thinking back to a passage in CofC where Franz is discussing how the WTS has to respond to a certain challenge from an outside force (sorry, can't remember exactly what it was), and one of his contemporaries expresses a reluctance to deal with it. Franz said something to the effect of "Why not -- if we really possess the truth, we can just blow them away!"

  That's when I thought at some point, the higher up a member of the GB goes on, he's mentally confronted with the light switch. From there he has to assess his motives -- whether to stay in the organization and toe the line for his own security, or let the real truth wash over him.

  Cognitive dissonance is a very disabling thing, and I suspect 95% of the GB can't even fathom the possibility that they're wrong. The remaining 5% who've figured it out have just decided it's not worth the risk to reform. Screwing with their cell structure would -- in their minds -- destroy the entire foundation. Not to mention cost them a lot of money.

  That's why it will take an event that catastrophically paints the WTS as an unquestionable evil in the eyes of the media and the world to bring it down. It hasn't happened yet. But it's closer than it was.

  --P
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  60

  Feb. 1 mass calling campaign. Will you call?

  by Shawn10538 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i'm not sure if it was mentiopned.

  but i think that we are talking about not just one call from each person, but we are talking about spending a good length of time calling repeatedly.

  othrwise it just won't have much of an impact.

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  pseattle2

  I can see now that those that want to participate in actions are definitely the minority. That is kind of surprising to me for some reason.
  It seems that most are just cynical about the efficacy of an action but not necessarily opposed to action in principle. To those I say: It was just this kind of thing, other people dropping little hints, tidbits and questions that eventually led me out of the org. Once a fact is put out there, it tends to linger and eventually get spread. Things like the 13 million dollar law settlement are conpletely unknown to JWs. o, if you just ask one about it, try as they may to not think about it, they will still, on some level be thinking about it, wondering about it. It will not leave their mind, not ever. It will have to be filed somewhere in their brain, even if it is in a trash folder. There it will fester and cause dissonance. Cognitive dissonance as we all know is what will eventually lead a cult member to an awakening.
  So, for the efficacy cynics, I ask to prove why it will be so ineffective. From what I have read from Steven Hassan and a few other cult swatters, this is exactly the kind of action that leads a cult member to awake...SOMEDAY. The more points of dissonance a person has floating around in their head the more they will have to struggle and compensate and manage these thoughts. They may at some point sign up to be a pioneer and really ge3t into Bible research in an effort to lesse the dissonance. This will only lead to eventual burn out. This is exactly what happened to me and I have a few friends and family members who wou7ld drop little tidbits on me from time to time. Over the years they built up and when I finally had the guts to research those "lies" it was a great awakening that all those apostates were actually telling the truth.
  I stand by my belief that these little actions may truly save many people from a life in a cult. It may even start a land slide away from the WT. In any case, I am proud to say that I am not a "DO NOTHING." These little actions at least are SOMETHING. And it is bound to work better than NOTHING.
  To all the neigh sayers: sit back on your couch, drink a beer and let everyone else Do, while you masturbate.

  First of all, masturbation's a fantastic way to pass the time, particularly during the writer's strike. Second of all, how is hassling telephone operators at Bethel planting a seed in anyone's head, besides telephone operators at Bethel? I would venture a guess that the WTS gets quite a bunch of crank callers as it is. How is the everyday Jehovah's Witness going to even hear about this phone action? You want to plant these seeds, you have to go directly to the people. Mussing up the phone lines of their organization won't work. It's like tying up the White House switchboard because you have a complaint about your mail carrier. I'm glad you're not a "Do Nothing." Hooray. So is everybody who's actively talking about their situation on message boards like this one. So are the people who started SilentLambs and Freeminds. So is everybody who's miraculously found a way out of this cult, because that's a very, very hard thing to do that requires a lot of mental action. Trust me. You wanna "Do Something"? Write. Take out a billboard, as somebody else here has suggested. Talk. Publicize. Volunteer your time and sympathetic ear to someone who needs the help directly. Or do your little phone prank. Who knows? I could be wrong. Maybe you'll be the next Harriet Tubman. But I think you'll just end up looking like the Jerky Boys. --P
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  60

  Feb. 1 mass calling campaign. Will you call?

  by Shawn10538 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i'm not sure if it was mentiopned.

  but i think that we are talking about not just one call from each person, but we are talking about spending a good length of time calling repeatedly.

  othrwise it just won't have much of an impact.

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  pseattle2

  There are a few JW who are/were truly being victimized by the religion. Perhaps some sort of in your face action would help those who are currently being victimized. Often trauma is what motivates a person to take the blinders off. But most adult JW are free to make their own choices and they must face the consequences of those choices just as I face the consequences of my choices. Dealing with the consequences of decision that I made does not make me a victim. No one is forcing adults to be JW just as no one is forcing some black people to assume "thug" culture is black culture.

  I think in any situation like this, if there are people who have been seriously victimized by the WTS -- and there are -- our efforts should be focused on seeking out and helping them, which is why boards like this exist.

  I couldn't care less what happens to the Watchtower Society. They're a completely empty, vacuous entity to me. Tying up their phone lines by being nuisances helps nobody and feeds into their persecution complex.

  But trying to help an ex-Witness unravel the considerable damage the WTS has done to them, that's accomplishing something.

  --P
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  60

  Feb. 1 mass calling campaign. Will you call?

  by Shawn10538 in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  i'm not sure if it was mentiopned.

  but i think that we are talking about not just one call from each person, but we are talking about spending a good length of time calling repeatedly.

  othrwise it just won't have much of an impact.

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  pseattle2

  Also. I am interested to hear from people who are dead set against any action against the WTS. If you are out there would you identify yourself and state exactly why you want no part of any real action? Curious.
  Also, those of you who ignore all posts about action and are not even opening this post. If you DO open this post by accident why do you not even offer a reason for not participating? Can you talk about it anyway against your better judgement? I'm just trying to draw out those who are patently against or apathetic about group actions. wHAT IS THE REASON FOR your apathy? Were you just not hurt that bad by the Society?

  It's been said before in this post, but it bears repeating: You sound exactly like a Jehovah's Witness elder in this post -- intimidating, baiting, insulting and holier-than-thou.

  The downfall of the Watchtower Society, when and if it happens, will be because of their own implosive factors painting them into a moral corner -- with absolutely every media eye focused upon them. Not only should we not do phone terrorism campaigns like this one, but they will hurt the cause more than help it.

  Just help your local ex-brothers and sisters and let the Watchtower Society unravel on its own. They've set their own traps. We need do nothing.

  --P