Posts by Gopher

205

HELLO? HELLO? "ALL" SIGN IN???????

by waiting in

simon did away with the sex forum - so i must take the tradional route and post under "make new friends.

" how mundane!.

fyi ---- for all of us, please take the time to write a sentence or two about yourselves, and encourage new ones to do the same.

Gopher

Hi Tracysdad,

Welcome to the board! I hope you like it out here, although you have nothing to "recover" from, fortunately.

I like how you were able to discern the truth about the JW's by interviewing both sides, both your JW co-workers and then the writings of those who had had past experience with the organization. Did you attend any JW meetings, other than the Memorial? It seems to me you were impressed by the "love bombing" that happened at that event. The Memorial is the main recruiting event each year for the JW's, and they surely put forth their best effort to impress you.

As far as whether that "love" would hold up over time as one gets "assimilated" into the organization, most here would agree that it doesn't. The "love" shown is conditional, based on how "active" you were in the preaching/recruiting work, and how "spiritual" you appear to be, as well as whom you know. (BTW, I was in the organization from birth up until last year, 39 years.)

Other notes, I know the pain of living separately from one's child. Life's just not fair, is it? I collected baseball cards when a kid, stored them in milk cartons turned on their side with one side cut out, you know what I mean? I sold my collection at a card traders show back in about 1974 or so. (It didn't matter, the "end of the system" was coming soon anyhow, so we thought.) I'm sure I had an old Mickey Mantle card in the collection. My favorite cards though were Harmon Killebrew, Tony Oliva and Rod Carew. (Yes I'm a Twins fan.)

Thanks again for jumping on board.

GopherThe sieve says to the needle; you have a hole in your head.
Indian Proverb

12

Dateline program?

by MoeJoJoJo in

jw
friends

before i became a registered poster here, i was reading someone's post that mentioned an upcoming dateline program that was possibly dealing with the org.

can someone tell me if this is true and if it is when does it air, or did i already miss it?.

"plant your own garden and decorate your own soul, instead of waiting for someone to bring you flowers.

Gopher

And here is the URL of the Dateline web site mentioned
by its_my_life2001ca:

* http://www.msnbc.com/news/DATELINE_front.asp?ta=y

Within the above link, scroll down to get to the e-mail selection area.

GopherThe sieve says to the needle; you have a hole in your head.
Indian Proverb

5

YEMIN IS BETTER THAN THE US

by Devilman in

jw
friends

coz you are all yanky scum!!!!.

.

i love yemin............long live sultain yemnata!

Gopher

Devilman, did you go to the same grammar school as Fredhall? I know you don't share his philosophy (sorry for the big word, I meant you don't think alike). But you two are mirror images. For that reason I look forward to your future contributions. Why? We need the humor.

Devilman, can you tell me what is the capital of Yemen?

GopherThe sieve says to the needle; you have a hole in your head.
Indian Proverb

6

Becoming A JW? Link to This...

by Francois in

jw
friends

the following link is to the online version of a book titled "jehovah lives in brooklyn," written by my friend richard francis.

rick was raised in the witnesses, left them as an m.s.

over twenty years ago, and has written many books about not only the jws, but also about love, mysticism, philosophy, and many other topics.. http://www.gatorsden.faithweb.com/p2.html.

Gopher

Francois and Zazu,

The link should read "page2" rather than "p2". Here it is:

* http://www.gatorsden.faithweb.com/page2.html

GopherThe sieve says to the needle; you have a hole in your head.
Indian Proverb

3

Oz and Illumaniti Mind Control/Discord

by sf in

jw
friends

< http://www.apfn.org/apfn/oz.htm.

.

< http://www.thud.org/discord.htm

Gopher

Dino,

Your link didn't work. Or maybe it's just part of a conspiracy??? (Hmmmmm....)

Can you give us the correct URL?

GopherThe sieve says to the needle; you have a hole in your head.
Indian Proverb

14

Is God Faithful?

by ticatoo in

jw
friends

god is by definition all knowing.

as an omniscient being, what is there that would require faith on god's part?.

god tells us in the bible to be like him... "be ye perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect".. .

Gopher

Ticatoo, you started an interesting discussion.

Music Mouth, bear with me here. I looked up knowledge, and found this set of definitions

the fact or condition of knowing something with familiarity gained through experience or association; acquaintance with or understanding of a science, art, or technique; the fact or condition of being aware of something; the range of one's information or understanding; the circumstance or condition of apprehending truth or fact through reasoning : COGNITION; the fact or condition of having information or of being learned

I don't think the actual definition of "knowledge" varies between JW's and anyone else. Perhaps it's the COMBINATION of knowledge and how they seek to use it that differs?

Like you, I noticed that 1 Corinthians 13:13 did not mention knowledge as one of the remaining "gifts" (once the special gifts of holy spirit were to pass away). But the same Bible writer did mention in Phillipians 1:9,10: "I continue praying that your love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment, so that you may make sure of the more important things." So could it be that "faith" and "knowledge", instead of being mutually exclusive, are actually COMPLIMENTARY parts of the same whole personality that we need? What do you think?

Hi Shelby. I liked your response about "perfection" that is expected of us as equated to "love". That simplifies things.

As far as the Hebrews 11:1 definition of faith applying to God, I don't see it. Here's why. God does not need "hope" to sustain him like we humans do. He can make anything happen at any time. So he does not need assured expectation of things hoped for, since (by definition of who he is) he does not need "hope". Secondly, the part about faith being "the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld" could not apply to God either, IMHO, because he BEHOLDS the heavenly realities that are unseen to us humans. He doesn't need to have faith in those unseen realities, for he can see all of those spiritual things.

GopherThe sieve says to the needle; you have a hole in your head.
Indian Proverb

205

HELLO? HELLO? "ALL" SIGN IN???????

by waiting in

simon did away with the sex forum - so i must take the tradional route and post under "make new friends.

" how mundane!.

fyi ---- for all of us, please take the time to write a sentence or two about yourselves, and encourage new ones to do the same.

Gopher

(With apologies to the other readers for this side conversation)--

Outnfree,

Goodonya for noticing, mate! You are "spot on". I am an American, absorbing cool phrases from my new off-shore partners in crime, heh heh. (And yes, it does work the other way around in real life. Our American words creep into about every culture with the exception of France.)

GopherThe sieve says to the needle; you have a hole in your head.
Indian Proverb

14

Is God Faithful?

by ticatoo in

jw
friends

god is by definition all knowing.

as an omniscient being, what is there that would require faith on god's part?.

god tells us in the bible to be like him... "be ye perfect, even as your father in heaven is perfect".. .

Gopher

Ticatoo,

I think when we speak of God being faithful, it would be in the sense of him being "faithful to his word", "faithful to his promises", and "faithful to his people". So that faithfulness on his part equates to loyalty and trustworthiness.

Should we as humans emphasize faith over knowledge? Remember that 1 Corinthians 8:1 says "Knowledge puffs up, but love builds up". And also 1 Corinthians 13:13 tells us "there remain faith, hope, love, these three, but the greatest of these is LOVE".

We have seen in the JW organization the results of placing emphasis on "knowledge" over "love". It's the love we were TOLD was there, but was lacking, that has kept many from returning to the organization.

So any knowledge we attain, it seems, would best be viewed in the context of how we can use it to build up love of God & neighbor in our lives.

GopherThe sieve says to the needle; you have a hole in your head.
Indian Proverb

205

HELLO? HELLO? "ALL" SIGN IN???????

by waiting in

simon did away with the sex forum - so i must take the tradional route and post under "make new friends.

" how mundane!.

fyi ---- for all of us, please take the time to write a sentence or two about yourselves, and encourage new ones to do the same.

Gopher

Golgotha,

Hi & welcome to the board. Your comments about Ray Franz and his book "Crisis of Conscience" are spot on.

I also remember hearing the legends about the so-called "terrible rebellion" that Ray supposedly spearheaded. Even last year, I heard the story (passed down from headquarters I am sure) that the reason he "fell away" is that he stopped reading the Bible.

Then when reading the book last year (for the first time) I found that Ray used and applied a whole ton of scriptures in his argumentation, so that rumor about him turning away from the Bible was a lie. In fact everything I had heard from "inside the organization" was a lie.

The book quickly turned me from a WT Society apologist into a realist very quickly, and it confirmed my decision to not go back into the organization again!

The WT society casts aspersions on those who leave its organization, especially those who express concerns about the organization or its teachings. They try to control the information, and try to keep everyone in check through FEAR rather than LOVE.

Thanks for sharing your story and I hope you'll continue to learn from and contribute to this discussion board.

GopherThe sieve says to the needle; you have a hole in your head.
Indian Proverb

8

Crystal Blue Persuasion(was it about the truth bk)

by Big Jim in

jw
friends

i heard somewhere this song was about the truth book, does anyone have.

crystal blue persuasion, uh huh, it's a new vibration.

crystal blue persuasion, uh huh.

Gopher

Thanks COMF for the eye-opening info.

That song "25 or 6 to 4" by Chicago never made sense to me before. I always thought it was the answer to the question raised in their other song, "Does Anybody Know What Time It Is?"

GopherThe sieve says to the needle; you have a hole in your head.
Indian Proverb