Posts by Gopher

32

Are teenagers old enought to get baptised?

by sleepy in

jw
friends

i, like many on this board got baptised when still a teenager (17).. at the time i thought i knew what i was doing and could take full responsibility for my actions.. 10 years later i realise i knew very little back then compared to what i know now.. was i old enought to make my mind up?.

or could we always at any age ,be looking back at things we did wrong thinking if only i knew what i know now?.

actually how much responsibility can we hold over what we did as teenagers .weren't we pushed by the congregation and parents, we had little knowledge of anything else being force fed the "truth" since babies.. at such a young age aren't we much more vulnerable to brainwashing ?.

Gopher

<<---- baptized at age 16 in Moorehead, Minnesota, USA

It's been pointed out elsewhere on this forum that the wording of the 2nd baptism question (out of the 2 read at the end of each JW baptism talk at their assemblies / conventions) changed in the 1980's, from being focused on Jesus, to 'do you recognize that your baptism makes you a Jehovah's Witness in association with the worldwide organization' or something to that effect.

In a sense, they are asking new members (including children) to enter into a sort of contract with the WT Society.

No child or teenager is old enough to understand the ramifications of entering a contract with a large publishing corporation!!

-J.R.

This post was not evaluated by any mental health professionals.
Any opinions expressed are those of a fuzzy, cuddly rodent.

32

Letting go of JW relatives (Long)

by MegaDude in

jw
friends

i've been out of the jws for some time now, seven years.

like many of you, i left a lot of acquaintances, friends, and family behind.. the acquaintances were fairly easy to let go, the friends very hard, and the family, well, near impossible, at least up until now.

that she should listen to both sides of the story without fear and make her own decision.

Gopher

Mega,

Thanks for sharing what you have gone through, and where you're at now. It all rings true.

My parents have shunned me and my sister. I haven't talked to them since they came back to this area (their old home) to visit old friends way back in September. The 9/11 incident occurred DURING their visit, but I heard nothing indicating care from them. They even won't see my 3-year-old daughter, and she really wants to know her grandparents. What did she do to them?? Such twisted thinking on their part.

I have never tried to keep in touch, I kind of figured it would be like talking to a brick wall. Oh I send pictures and updates occasionally to let them know I'm still alive and kicking. But for the most part I have to act like they don't even exist, and it hasn't been easy.

-J.R.

This post was not evaluated by any mental health professionals.
Any opinions expressed are those of a fuzzy, cuddly rodent.

11

Pub Record Card Policy

by VitoJW in

jw
friends

i remeber in a bofe meeting with co, the comment was made by the co that w/o having the pub's record card on file, a congregation could not df someone, or at least would have to be very careful in doing so for legal reasons.

i thought at the time that he may have gotten his info from a letter from bethel.. has anyone else heard of such?

maybe i make them an offer they cannot refuse........

Gopher

Such a policy would make sense, because since some point in the 1980's, the local congregations are only allowed to disfellowship actual members. If an unbaptized publisher were to be judged unworthy of being a publisher any longer, an announcement would be read that they are no longer a publisher (rather than a DF'ing or a public reproof).

On the publisher cards, of course, is the main evidence that a person actually is baptized -- since the date is listed. (Along with the breakdown as to whether the individual is in the "great crowd" or "anointed" class.)

-J.R.

This post was not evaluated by any mental health professionals.
Any opinions expressed are those of a fuzzy, cuddly rodent.

17

Were you always guilt-ridden?

by MoeJoJoJo in

jw
friends

did you ever stop feeling constantly guilty while you were in the org?

i never did, no matter how much i was doing as far as field service & meeting attendance it never felt like enough.

i never felt like i was doing enough, ever; even though we were at all of the meetings faithfully, with three young children, which was no easy task.. .

Gopher

I was out to dinner Sunday night --- okay I'll name names, with Harmony and with Lauralisa and her fiance. We were talking about this very thing, and noticing that as JW's we would have felt guilty if we didn't go up and talk to people in the restaurant about the "kingdom hope" (or at least offer them some literature). After all, if we didn't, we'd certainly die at Armageddon and they probably would too!

The guilt is Society-induced, and not from God or the Bible. They set out their "societal norms" of how you are to act and behave in each situation. It is simply impossible to fully live up to, and so we were trained and controlled by such guilt feelings!

I still have a hard time singing "Happy Birthday" to my own daughter! Damn. The old "training" and "guilt" has taken away the joy from even an ordinary, simple pleasure. (Just an example, there are hundreds more examples.)

-J.R.

This post was not evaluated by any mental health professionals.
Any opinions expressed are those of a fuzzy, cuddly rodent.

7

The big secret - Racial relations.

by Spartacus in

jw
friends

i am not speaking of 'secret' in the sense that no one knows this, but in the sense of the phrase 'open secret' where no one wants to talk about something that is known and true, but makes people uncomfortable.

kind of like the 'crazy aunt' that lived in a room in the finished attic.

everyone knew she was there, but no one wanted to talk about her being there.. well, the open secret about race relations in the usa, is that all of us working class folks have been used against each other by the elite from the earliest history of this country.

Gopher

It's kind of like the proverb "Man has dominated man to his injury". This is an excellent post, and it shows who's dominating who! Will it ever end? Maybe the system as a whole cannot be fixed, but you and I can refuse to play the hatred game -- and thus hand the dominators a small but important defeat.

-J.R.

This post was not evaluated by any mental health professionals.
Any opinions expressed are those of a fuzzy, cuddly rodent.

20

CourtTV - A JW Case

by Mister Biggs in

last night (9:30pm est), courttv did a story of a woman who left home when she was a teenager.. she got involved with drugs and prostitution.. she soon gave birth to a child.. she stopped using drugs and quit being a prostitute and took up a job as a waitress.. she now gave birth to a son.. fast forward six years.... she began studying with jehovah's witnesses.. she was applying for something (maybe welfare, i'm not sure.

i ran to use the bathroom during the commercials and when i came back out the narrator had already said what she was trying to apply for).. the narrator said that whatever she was applying for required that she disclose who the father is and explain why she is not collecting child support.. the father of her son was a married police officer who had an established family and a distinguished career.. she consulted the elders as to what she should do.

they told her that she needs to be honest and that she shouldn't lie on the application.. so, she set up a meeting with the baby's daddy (the cop).

Gopher

Scully -- you may have hit on the real scenario. "Watchtower Love", yeah -- you go keep warm and well-fed and we're too busy "preaching the kingdom" to offer practical assistance to you!! Talk about loving her to death! So sad, the organization she put her hope in -- and they leave her out to dry!

-J.R.

This post was not evaluated by any mental health professionals.
Any opinions expressed are those of a fuzzy, cuddly rodent.

20

CourtTV - A JW Case

by Mister Biggs in

last night (9:30pm est), courttv did a story of a woman who left home when she was a teenager.. she got involved with drugs and prostitution.. she soon gave birth to a child.. she stopped using drugs and quit being a prostitute and took up a job as a waitress.. she now gave birth to a son.. fast forward six years.... she began studying with jehovah's witnesses.. she was applying for something (maybe welfare, i'm not sure.

i ran to use the bathroom during the commercials and when i came back out the narrator had already said what she was trying to apply for).. the narrator said that whatever she was applying for required that she disclose who the father is and explain why she is not collecting child support.. the father of her son was a married police officer who had an established family and a distinguished career.. she consulted the elders as to what she should do.

they told her that she needs to be honest and that she shouldn't lie on the application.. so, she set up a meeting with the baby's daddy (the cop).

Gopher

You mentioned that CourtTV interviewed her ex-priest. Did they even try to obtain an interview with any of her JW elders? If not, that indicates a lack of respect for the JW's (which may be deserved, by the way).

But if they DID try to interview the JW elders, and they refused comment, it leads you to wonder how much "Love" (tm) they really have for their flock. JW's don't eulogize their dead, they just keep preaching at you. It's as if the life of the dead person and the example they personally set doesn't even matter!!!

-J.R.

This post was not evaluated by any mental health professionals.
Any opinions expressed are those of a fuzzy, cuddly rodent.

39

My Husband Died One Year Ago Today

by Dutchie in

jw
friends

after eighteen years of marriage, my husband passed away last year of a terminal liver disease.

today is the aniversary of his death.

he died on april 22, 2001 and he was the love of my life.

Gopher

Sincerest sympathy, and thanks Dutchie for sharing part of yourself with us! Your love is truly inspiring. (I'm German, and apologize for my lateness in coming to this thread...)

-J.R.

This post was not evaluated by any mental health professionals.
Any opinions expressed are those of a fuzzy, cuddly rodent.

11

PART 8-THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY

by zev in

part 8. the undiscovered country.. i call this part the undiscovered country because #1... im a sci-fi (and star trek) fan, and #2... thats exactly how i saw it when i delved into the truth of the truth.

it started around the end of 2000. what really started it was a death of a close friend.

it was a moment ill never forget in my life.

Gopher

Zev,

Thanks for sharing these accounts and the feelings that went with them. In some things, we see hindsight is 20-20, for example when you said those who cannot cope well should get counselling! That may have helped you land in the "happy state" where you now are a little sooner. But at least you got there.

And I totally agree with Francois based on my personal experience above. When you are mistreated / humiliated / abused over a long period of time by a spouse, they have irretrievably broken the marriage. No last-minute repentance can possibly make up for all the times she dogged you! You gotta do what's right for you, even if you look like the "bad guy" in the eyes of a bunch of false friends (JW's). Why do they always seem to take the side of the abuser (who continues to promote JW-ism) in disputes like this?

Your experience shows that we CAN make a move to make our circumstances better! No matter how hard it is, and no matter how lonely we feel about it at first, things will work out if we are true to ourselves and to principles, rather than just going with the flow.

Your story shows it can be done!

-J.R.

This post was not evaluated by any mental health professionals.
Any opinions expressed are those of a fuzzy, cuddly rodent.

63

Reasons why we hate JW's (as an org)

by ashitaka in

jw
friends

my first reason is the fact that i was being controlled through the jw social structure, and having to fight to do anything....even whether to wear a tie or not.

the preoccupation with appearance was so debilitating; that was all i was ever concerned with.

and, as i'm not attractive, good in sports, or a conformist, i had very few friends.

Gopher

#2 They claim to be God's sole spokesman for this planet, and yet they teach the commands of men as doctrines, proving their heart is far removed from what God and Jesus are supposed to represent. Their harsh shunning of ex-members, and their manslaying and confusing "no blood -- with a few exceptions for certain fractions" doctrine are two examples.

#3 The gossip and slander that is commonplace among JW members worldwide shows a lack of love and sickness at the heart of the organization.

-J.R.

This post was not evaluated by any mental health professionals.
Any opinions expressed are those of a fuzzy, cuddly rodent.