Hi changeling,
Well I am still hoping you might change you mind and give it a try :)
My belief is that faith is what God want's (see Hebrews 11 for example), and that itself an act of worship.
If you are an ex JW then I expect 'worship' was a torturous affair, maybe in the same league as spreading the WTO 'good news' but until you experience the living God then you won't know what you are missing.
The thing is that God would much prefer the Kingdom Halls stop singing their songs and vacate the building and the 'religion' and put their faith in the name of Jesus as He says.
All the best,
Stephen
Posts by Chalam
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35Where I stand:
by changeling ini posted this on one of "aleman's" threads and i've posted a similar scenario in the past.
i re-read it an decided i really like it and wanted to share it with all of you:.
please think about this scenario and tell me what you think:.
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Chalam
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35
Where I stand:
by changeling ini posted this on one of "aleman's" threads and i've posted a similar scenario in the past.
i re-read it an decided i really like it and wanted to share it with all of you:.
please think about this scenario and tell me what you think:.
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Chalam
Hi jaguarbass,
"Chalam
Try thumping around the old testament and tell me about your gods love.
You cant just pick and choose."
I agree. I used to have problems with that two years ago. I could not reconcile the God in the OT with the one in the NT.
Now I have no problem with it at all!
All goes back to the faith thing, I trust God but back then I mistrusted Him.
Also, the thing is as you get to know about someone and you find out they are cool then you trust them more and more.
All the best,
Stephen -
26
THE TORTURE STAKE
by journey-on inwhy in the world did they choose to call it that!
i remember the horrific way it always sounded to me...the torture stake.
couldn't they have chosen something else?
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Chalam
Strong's Greek Lexicon Online Bible Dictionary Project
number - 4716
orig_word - staurovß
word_orig - from the base of (2476)
translit - stauros
tdnt - 7:572,1071
phonetic - stow-ros'
part_of_speech - Noun Masculine
st_def - from the base of «2476»; a stake or post (as set upright), i.e. (specially), a pole or cross (as an instrument of capital punishment); figuratively, exposure to death, i.e. self-denial; by implication, the atonement of Christ:--cross.
IPD_def -
an upright stake, esp. a pointed one
a cross
a well known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections, and occasionally in the provinces, at the arbitrary pleasure of the governors, upright and peaceable men also, and even Roman citizens themselves
the crucifixion which Christ underwent -
30
My only problem with the JWs
by dawg inbesides the fact that jws are pious, think only they have the truth, won't read anything with an open mind... hell won't read anything at all minus wt magazines... .
after all this, my only real problem is the shunning... almost everyone i love gets on my nerves from time to time, i get on theirs.
the fact that the jws beliefs is annoying isn't the problem, it just that after they are wrong as hell becasue of their ignorance, they won't talk to you.. i'm not trying to get my family to eradicate their beliefs, i'm just trying to get them to stop shunning those of us that don't believe like them.
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Chalam
Hi,
I agree about the shunning-that is the worst. The WTO take 1 Corinthians 5 and go haywire with it.
I have a friend who is a JW and I have many good things to say about him.
None of them will get him into the kingdom of God though :(
The worst thing is his religion but that is not his fault or even his parents, just the enemy's.
Regards,
Stephen -
10
slave vs servant
by bite me inwe are servants of god, not slaves.
why does the nwt use slaves rather than the proper term servants.
how does the wts claim this (using slave) is the proper way?
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Chalam
Hi,
The Greek "douloo" can be translated 'slave' or 'servant'.
http://biblos.com/romans/6-22.htm
If you think about the time of the Romans then slaves were also servants.
There are verses which you can translate either way.
If you want to think slave then this is good.
1 Corinthians 7:22-24 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
22For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave. 23You were bought at a price; do not become slaves of men. 24Brothers, each man, as responsible to God, should remain in the situation God called him to.
Or this is an example for servant.
James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ
Regards,
Stephen -
40
For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead...
by Chalam inthis one bugged me for a while.
i will quote the nwt for all the ex jws here ;) .
ecclesiastes 9 nwt .
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Chalam
Hi,
IMHO God is a lot less dogmatic, patient and flexible than we can imagine. I believe in the Trinity so it doesn't matter if you pray "God" "Father" "Jesus" "Holy Spirit" or even "Jehovah".
However, Jesus is THE only way to get to know God, He stands at the door when you knock, He opens it, it is His blood which atones for sin and reconciles you to the Father, He send the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) to dwell in you etc.
It is not about following a set of rules or protocol but what is in your heart and if you really know God and are known by Him.
"Btw, did you notice that "calling Jesus Lord instead of doing his Father's will" (the best way to be "locked out" according to Matthew 7) slightly resembles the way of salvation Paul recommends in Romans 10 (confessing Jesus as Lord rather than doing the works of the Law," compare Matthew 5:17ff)?"
Jesus and Paul talk about the same thing. Jesus says the Law will be fulfilled and Paul says life by the law has finished since Christ had then died and risen.
As you like to study the Bible can recommend Wayne Grudem's book "Systematic Theology"? The title will put you off but I think you will like the content :)
All the best,
Stephen -
26
THE TORTURE STAKE
by journey-on inwhy in the world did they choose to call it that!
i remember the horrific way it always sounded to me...the torture stake.
couldn't they have chosen something else?
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Chalam
Hi.
"They claimed the evidence was solid and incontrovertible."
They claim that a lot!
http://biblos.com/matthew/10-38.htm
The Greek is "Stauros" which is cross (there is no separate word for "cross") and also "stake".
Historical evidence aside, it now comes down to a matter of faith if we believe that Jesus died on a cross or stake.
God requires faith not proof so stake your claim!
Regards,
Stephen -
35
Where I stand:
by changeling ini posted this on one of "aleman's" threads and i've posted a similar scenario in the past.
i re-read it an decided i really like it and wanted to share it with all of you:.
please think about this scenario and tell me what you think:.
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Chalam
"The God of the Watchtower is NOT the God of the Bible. In fact (in my opinion) the Watchtower doesn't have a God, they think they are God. I agree, no loving parent would require what the GB requires, no (again just my opinion) does God. "
I agree.
1 John 4:8 (New International Version)
Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.
Hi again changeling,
The major flaw with your analogy IMHO is that it humanizes God. Consider these few attributes of God.
Limitless
Eternal and existed before time and space began
Knows all things
Is present everywhere
Created the universe (which the scientists think could well be infinite it size) and everything in it in minute details (to at least sub atomic particles)
Never changes His mind or lies
Is patient and loving
Is pure just and will judge with total wisdom and with perfect justice
Then how, with our finite minds can we understand His decisions, plans and nature? Else say we have a better idea than God, or that He is wrong until we too have these attributes?
We need to trust who He is and that He wants the best for us. This is where your analogy works, and the Bible too at the child/parent relationship level. Having children has taught me more about God and my relationship with Him than I could ever understand before. Unconditional love for them, a deep wanting for my children to prosper and grown, discipline where required as an act of love and a total trust from my children in their parents and reciprocated love. I cannot even imagine what it would feel like to be ill treated, unloved and despised by my children.
Worship doesn't come easy to myself (being a rebel for 20 years) but I am growing. Not because it is something I 'need too do' or 'is required' either. God doesn't want that type of worship. He wants the love of a child to a parent from the heart so He leaves it up to us. I wonder if you have witnessed (excuse the word) this type of worship? It does not exist in the WTO or many 'traditional' churches but it is THE mark of the true church.
1 Corinthians 14 (New International Version)
Orderly Worship
26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
So the JWs deny who the Holy Spirit is and the gifts of the Spirit such as speaking in tongues and as mentioned before they don't even know God. Get in a real church and experience some real worship-you will find it is the real deal.
Have a look over here, they are worshiping 24/7/365!
http://www.ihop.org/
All the best,
Stephen -
40
For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead...
by Chalam inthis one bugged me for a while.
i will quote the nwt for all the ex jws here ;) .
ecclesiastes 9 nwt .
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Chalam
Hi Narkissos,
Thanks for pointing me in the direction of you biog-a fascinating read.
"As to asking for the Holy Spirit's guidance, technicalities aside, this is common to every Christian denomination and sect I know, including Jehovah's Witnesses. And of course I have done it many times."
That is interesting about the Spirit and the JWs. Not having been one but having looked into their beliefs I understand that they say the Spirit is not a person but God's 'active force' due to their own 'translation' of Genesis 1:2 (good to get the mistruths in as early as possible!) etc.
So are you saying the JWs pray to The Holy Spirit? My understanding was they didn't pray to Jesus who they regard as a person, let alone the Spirit who they don't.
Once again, I suggest you ask Him, literally for revelation when reading the Bible. WIthout it you can study a lifetime and not learn a single thing in God's eyes.
"Everyone's path is different and you don't know where yours will eventually lead you."
This isn't meant to be flippant but as you know, my faith is in the Bible and that what is says it true.
Matthew 7 (New International Version)
The Narrow and Wide Gates
13"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
So there are two roads in life, one that leads to life and one to death.
As it says a few verses later
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
So are you know by Him or will you say "Lord Lord" on that day and He will say "I never knew you"?
All the best,
Stephen -
40
For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead...
by Chalam inthis one bugged me for a while.
i will quote the nwt for all the ex jws here ;) .
ecclesiastes 9 nwt .
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Chalam
Hi Nakissos,
"Of course you're not supposed to know, but I have left JWs over 20 years ago and I happen to have spent more time studying the Bible after than before that."
So how are you getting on after all this study? Where has it taken you?
I have been studying for a couple of years and as you can tell, I find it useful for life application and my relationship with God.
So what about asking the Holy Spirit for guidance? Have you tried that?
All the best,
Stephen