has anyone done this, seen it happen, or heard of it happening?
with what results?.
LittleToe hasn't been around for about a year. Here are the last couple of threads he posted on.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/member/4125/posted/323
He PMed me his email around the same time.
His kingdom hall speech reminded me much of Stephen's Acts 7
Hope you are doing well Ross :)
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
2 corinthians 13: 5a - 5 examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves.. this verse just comes at me like a locomotive.. to examine something is to truly use my mental capacities and to look at something objectively.. how do i accomplish this, even now?.
i was raised in an organization that controlled my information and used fear of rejection as well as my need for approval to "inculcate" the "truth" into me.. by that right, i (and all born-ins) do not have the ability to examine our faith (as a jw).. there will always be an artificial pull either for or against the society (whether we are aware of it or not).. free will has been comprimised; therefore our "faith to our creator" has been tainted and cannot be judged as worthy or unworthy.. of course many of us have regained our ability to discern and look at things objectively.. but i believe that we will never be able to truly look at the watchtower organization without a slant.. not to say the conclusions we come to regards to the organization are not valid (because they are and have been validated).
my point is that the organization has no right to judge and ostracize any born-in for leaving and even for speaking out.. they broke us, and now they are demonizing us for the things we did in that broken state.
So how do you like THOSE contradictory musings of mine?
I do.
I find nothing contradictory in them. Not everyone is called at the same time or in the same way.
And that goes on in my head ever day.
Don't worry, it will calm down!
BTW, there is no grace in the law.
28 Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
It is either the law or grace (which is indeed above the law), judgment or mercy, the second death or new life.
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
solely by means of the pages of the bible... is like trying to know someone based on what's written about them in their high school year book.
while what others write there may say a lot... oh so much is left out.
best way to get to know that person?
I have no problem with voting.
21 He changes times and seasons;
he deposes kings and raises up others.
He gives wisdom to the wise
and knowledge to the discerning.
11 Jesus answered, “You would have no power over me if it were not given to you from above. Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin.”
9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people— 10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11 But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister [ a ] but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people.
Footnotes:Paul is writing here about a situation of a person who is sleeping with his mother or step mother and is unrepentant, as are the rest of the church at Corinth 1 Corinthians 5:1
The directive is not to associate with such a person (who claims to be a believer). It is not a directive to not associate with worldly people, even overt sinners. This is clearly inline with the Lord's example.
10 While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and sinners came and ate with him and his disciples. 11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
12 On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick.
31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?”
“The first,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
Blessings,
Stephen
2 corinthians 13: 5a - 5 examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves.. this verse just comes at me like a locomotive.. to examine something is to truly use my mental capacities and to look at something objectively.. how do i accomplish this, even now?.
i was raised in an organization that controlled my information and used fear of rejection as well as my need for approval to "inculcate" the "truth" into me.. by that right, i (and all born-ins) do not have the ability to examine our faith (as a jw).. there will always be an artificial pull either for or against the society (whether we are aware of it or not).. free will has been comprimised; therefore our "faith to our creator" has been tainted and cannot be judged as worthy or unworthy.. of course many of us have regained our ability to discern and look at things objectively.. but i believe that we will never be able to truly look at the watchtower organization without a slant.. not to say the conclusions we come to regards to the organization are not valid (because they are and have been validated).
my point is that the organization has no right to judge and ostracize any born-in for leaving and even for speaking out.. they broke us, and now they are demonizing us for the things we did in that broken state.
some may enjoy this new post at free minds by sherry jansma.
do we have to jump from the watchtowers frying pan into hellfire?.
one of the most appealing doctrines in the theology of jehovahs witnesses is their teaching on hellfire.
Thanks for posting LWT.
The article was going pretty well but I got the idea after a while that it was going the way of universalism, which indeed it did.
IMHO, reading the bible one is maybe even less likely to arrive at this conclusion than the WT style annihilationism.
Anyhow, there are scores of verses pitted directly against the universalist view but as I have just been reading Hebrews, these come to mind.
3 Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,
“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”
And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world.
5 And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”
The bible says this.
27 Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life. 7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children. 8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”
So, as it says, if you hear His voice, do not harden your hearts but enter into His rest :)
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
i started my fade in 2004 and completely quit regular attendance in 2005. i have, however, gone to all the memorials since.
i still consider myself christian and felt it was a somewhat decent way of respecting the sacrifice.. i am thinking of not going this year.. i am generally disgusted at what the memorial observation actually entails.
there is almost no talk about what jesus went through on that day or even the tremendous sacrifice involved and the love that motivated it.
Welcome Eiben Scrood!
Nice post :)
These two verses say it all.
53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
2 corinthians 13: 5a - 5 examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves.. this verse just comes at me like a locomotive.. to examine something is to truly use my mental capacities and to look at something objectively.. how do i accomplish this, even now?.
i was raised in an organization that controlled my information and used fear of rejection as well as my need for approval to "inculcate" the "truth" into me.. by that right, i (and all born-ins) do not have the ability to examine our faith (as a jw).. there will always be an artificial pull either for or against the society (whether we are aware of it or not).. free will has been comprimised; therefore our "faith to our creator" has been tainted and cannot be judged as worthy or unworthy.. of course many of us have regained our ability to discern and look at things objectively.. but i believe that we will never be able to truly look at the watchtower organization without a slant.. not to say the conclusions we come to regards to the organization are not valid (because they are and have been validated).
my point is that the organization has no right to judge and ostracize any born-in for leaving and even for speaking out.. they broke us, and now they are demonizing us for the things we did in that broken state.
Cool thread :)
So what's is THE test?
5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!
"...that Jesus Christ is in you?"
How is Jesus Christ in you?
16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.
9 You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.
JWs clearly fail the test because they do not to have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them, "that's only the 144, 000" is their retort.
The Holy Spirit is THE guarantee of passing the test for ALL who believe
13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people. 27 To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.
28 He is the one we proclaim, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ. 29 To this end I strenuously contend with all the energy Christ so powerfully works in me.
Acts 2:38-39 (New International Version © 2010)
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
solely by means of the pages of the bible... is like trying to know someone based on what's written about them in their high school year book.
while what others write there may say a lot... oh so much is left out.
best way to get to know that person?
No problems, my pleasure :)
Here's another thing, to know Jesus is to know the Holy Spirit.
18 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
Footnotes:Jesus and the Holy Spirit are one, just as Jesus and the Father are one.
23 Jesus answered him, "If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
i do not know how to scan the wt if someone can it would be great but i wrote it out verbatim .
i think what the wt says speaks for its self.
am i missing something and or reading something into what they are saying.
This is scary we are to put the GB in the same place as Jesus according to the Dec 15 WT
Personally, I think it is clear that the WT put themselves in the place of Christ, just look at their Mediator teaching
http://www.qwotes.info/mediator.htm
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
are some of you scared that armageddon may be coming anytime?
lol.
just the thought and the picture in your head that anybody can get killed....>.<.
Welcome BlackTwisted!
Armageddon is mentioned by name only once in the bible Revelation 16:16 (twice for Megiddo Zech 12:11; Judg 5:19) but the WT sure like to talk about it a lot.
As Ding mentioned, there is no fear for those who are in Christ Romans 8:1, Romans 8:34
All that matter is being "in Christ". What does that mean?
Romans 6:23, 1 Corinthians 15:22 , 2 Corinthians 5:19 , Galatians 3:26, Ephesians 1:13, Philippians 4:7, 1 Thessalonians 4:16 , 2 Timothy 1:9 , 2 Timothy 2:10
You aren't likely to hear about it from the WT, they want you to be in their organisation, not in Christ.
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
