i think it's a given that most of us who have left, have had dreams about still being jw's or doing jw related things, even years after we left.
i had one of those last night.
it involved getting a hotel for the next district convention and then it skipped ahead to when i was attending.
the watchtower teaches that there is no such thing as a spirit or soul leaving the body that can consciously experience anything in heaven unless you are annointed and you die.
and the body certainly couldn't go in their view.
however the apostle paul plainly taught otherwise.
" The person the apostle Paul was referring to was not himself. It was John."
The jury is out on that one.
English Standard Version (ESV)
6 Though if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool, for I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me. 7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. Paul receieved a thorn in the flesh to keep him humble about the revelations. There is no mention of John getting one. Paul could have well visited heaven when he was stoned to death Acts 14:19 My JW friend gave me a blank expressions when I mentioned "third heaven" so I pointed him to the account in 2 Corinthians 12. JWs miss many verses like this because they have the WT doctrine "the dead know nothing" etc. ringing in their ears. In fact, for most of them, any true revelation they have is taken from them Matthew 13:11-13, Matthew 21:42-44, Matthew 25:28-30 Here's a few more verses they never can grasp.English Standard Version (ESV)
21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better.English Standard Version (ESV)
26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.English Standard Version (ESV)
4 By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.
English Standard Version (ESV)
5 For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.English Standard Version (ESV)
24 "And they shall go out and look on the dead bodies of the men who have rebelled against me. For their worm shall not die, their fire shall not be quenched, and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."
English Standard Version (ESV)
23 Now may the God of peace himself sanctify you completely, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Most JWs will soon start to speak of the destruction of the soul, Ezekiel 18 and such. However, nowhere does the bible ever speak of one's spirit being destroyed.English Standard Version (ESV)
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Blessings from one made alive in Christ :) Stephen
this has been nagging at me a little bit; i left 10 years ago, but am not df'd as far as i know.
i recognize the fact that this organization has no authority over me so would not bother with a letter just for them to clean up their records.. but to obey the bible command, is it enough to no longer be a part of it, or is it important to show god where you stand with a formal act of withdrawal from the organization?
what are your thoughts?.
There are serious spiritual, emotional and physical benefits for DAing oneself.
JWs have sworn in a oath to be yoked with the heavy yoke of the WT (see JW baptism proclamations).
JWs are under a curse for proclaiming "another gospel" Galatians 1
JWs who DA themselves from the WT and become yoked to Jesus come under all the blessings of the New (and Old!) Covenants, least of not they are not under the curse of Adam and the Law Genesis 3, Deuteronomy 27:26
New International Version 1984 (NIV1984)
28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.”
Blessings in Christ,
Stephen
i am starting this topic to discuss the title.
i know many people on this forums dont believe in the idea of god , and even jw's reject the idea of a fiery hell even though the bible clearly states is.. this video contain testimonies osome people who even considered themselves as atheists until the point of practical death.. i just want to emphasize what one person said in the video at the point of death - " what if god is real, and what if all that which was being said about god was true" .
hope this helps whoever it may.. and one more thing, no matter what you do or how you live your life, just know that even at the point of death, jesus christ is able to save.
Indeed tec, amen!
The bible is clear, the nations will be judged on how they treat the descendents of Abraham, both in the old testament and the new!
I am glad I have been grafted into the promise :)
Hope you are well Tammy :)
Blessing in Christ, our Lord and our God, Yeshua Messiah, Creator of heaven and earth!
Stephen xx
for me, 1 peter 4;6 "for this is why the gospel was.
preached even to the dead, that though judged in.
the flesh like men, they might live in the spirit like god.".
You too Palm! Just dropping by to say hello and write a few post.
Hope you are doing well :)
Love Stephen xx
i am starting this topic to discuss the title.
i know many people on this forums dont believe in the idea of god , and even jw's reject the idea of a fiery hell even though the bible clearly states is.. this video contain testimonies osome people who even considered themselves as atheists until the point of practical death.. i just want to emphasize what one person said in the video at the point of death - " what if god is real, and what if all that which was being said about god was true" .
hope this helps whoever it may.. and one more thing, no matter what you do or how you live your life, just know that even at the point of death, jesus christ is able to save.
Designs, we have been here before.
New International Version (NIV)
9 But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless. 10 Warn a divisive person once, and then warn them a second time. After that, have nothing to do with them.
Enjoy your foolish controversies if you like, they have been touted around for thousands of years. Just like the WT folly, they are rebutted by the scriptures themselves.
New International Version (NIV)
28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
New International Version (NIV)
14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.
for me, 1 peter 4;6 "for this is why the gospel was.
preached even to the dead, that though judged in.
the flesh like men, they might live in the spirit like god.".
Indeed, only the WT make Matthew 24:45 confusing.
Strange how they aren't mentioned by Luke in the very same parable, even in their own bible?!
NWT Luke 12:42 And the Lord said: “Who really is the faithful steward, the discreet one, whom his master will appoint over his body of attendants to keep giving them their measure of food supplies at the proper time?
Read both accounts of the parable and the message is clearly has nothing to do with a man made organization but rather an eternal truth regarding the Kingdom of God.
Stephen
i left the org many years ago as a teenager.
i started looking more closely at their doctrines a few months ago to work out if they really have the truth.
when i cam across the notion that jesus is not mediator for everyone i was startled and have been looking at the issue a lot more closely.
New International Version (NIV)
4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
or you yourself will be just like him.
5 Answer a fool according to his folly,
or he will be wise in his own eyes.
i am starting this topic to discuss the title.
i know many people on this forums dont believe in the idea of god , and even jw's reject the idea of a fiery hell even though the bible clearly states is.. this video contain testimonies osome people who even considered themselves as atheists until the point of practical death.. i just want to emphasize what one person said in the video at the point of death - " what if god is real, and what if all that which was being said about god was true" .
hope this helps whoever it may.. and one more thing, no matter what you do or how you live your life, just know that even at the point of death, jesus christ is able to save.
How can the New Testament be anti-semetic?! It is written by Jews. "Immanuel", God with us is a Jew!
Stop smoking drugs dude
You better read these slowly
Or this
1 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don’t you know what Scripture says in the passage about Elijah—how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 “Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me”? 4 And what was God’s answer to him? “I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
7 What then? What the people of Israel sought so earnestly they did not obtain. The elect among them did, but the others were hardened, 8 as it is written:
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that could not see
and ears that could not hear,
to this very day.”
9 And David says:
“May their table become a snare and a trap,
a stumbling block and a retribution for them.
10 May their eyes be darkened so they cannot see,
and their backs be bent forever.”
11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their full inclusion bring!
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies for your sake; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, 29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. 30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, 31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. 32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
I have more respect for posters like cofty who clearly understand Christian doctrine and belief but have chosen not to believe rather that those who shoot off copious round of off topic blanks and one liners.
Fire all the shots you like but those bullets don't actually exist.
Stephen
for me, 1 peter 4;6 "for this is why the gospel was.
preached even to the dead, that though judged in.
the flesh like men, they might live in the spirit like god.".
Jam, you have surely come by they way of the WT and the often quoted phrase "the dead know nothing".
However, you won't see them quote it in context of the following verse and the the phrase "under the sun" which runs through the whole book.
New International Version (NIV)
5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.
6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.
Understand the phrase and you will see right through the WT lie concerning the dead.
Clearly the WT hot foot over the huge numbers of verses which speak of the dead speaking, them being present with Jesus or else in eternal torement.
Nothing is easy to understand after studying with the WT. You need to wipe the slate clean and start with a new tutor, see John 14
Stephen
