Posts by Gozz

80

INCREDIBLE STUFF SAID @ BOOK STUDY!

by Mister Biggs in

ironically, we were discussing the watchman who stays awake night and day.. anyway, something was said that made me awaken and pay careful attention.

please, if anyone else who got this same information at their book study, please share it.. here goes:.

there was a picture of a man standing on the watchtower keeping on the look out.

Gozz

Farkel,

that a mere man exercises no belief in God, or a god, does not mean he must desecrate the sanctuary of those who do. Why do you express in such inciteful words your disdain for the almighty? Are there no more believers in God in this community? Now is it, those who believe in God must carefully admonish this mere man, of melting flesh, and pounding blood to desist from acts of pouring invectives on something, someone, held sacred by others.

This transcends the realm of religious discussion, but rests on the plane of respect for the beliefs of the other. Can you simply not respect that others choose to believe, and that you simply do not? Why is this is wonderful matter to understand? It is indeed a frightful thing, that those in whose hearts remain some iota of belief in God, or a god, will remain silent at this time. You call the God some worship an idiot? You blaspheme, O mere man. You not only blaspheme, but also attempt a trampling upon the sacred faith of others.

I pray that you are forgiven, first for this act of sin against fellow humans, and then by God, who remains magnanimous in his dealings with fallen man.

80

INCREDIBLE STUFF SAID @ BOOK STUDY!

by Mister Biggs in

ironically, we were discussing the watchman who stays awake night and day.. anyway, something was said that made me awaken and pay careful attention.

please, if anyone else who got this same information at their book study, please share it.. here goes:.

there was a picture of a man standing on the watchtower keeping on the look out.

Gozz

Farkel,

that a mere man exercises no belief in God, or a god, does not he must desecrate the sanctuary of those who do. Why do you express in such inciteful words your disdain for the almighty? Are there no more believers in God in this community? Now is it, those who believe in God must carefully this mere man, of melting flesh, and punding blood to desist from acts of pouring invectives on something, someone, held sacred by others.

This transcends the realm of religious discussion, but respect for the beliefs of the other. Can you simply not respect that others choose to believe, and that you simply do not? Why is this is wonderful matter to understand. It is indeed a frightful thing, that those in whose hearts remain some iota of belief in God, or a god, will remain silent at this time. You call the God some worship an idiot? You blaspheme, O mere man. You not only blaspheme, but also attempt a trampling upon the sacred faith of others.

I pray that you are forgiven, first for this act of sin against fellow humans, and then by God, who remains magnanimous in his dealings with fallen man.

40

Another NWT Mistranslation?

by Sargon in

ok, this post isn't out to prove anything, other than i've got too much time on my hands, which alot of you know that already.. over my morning coffee this morning i decided to read the section of the bible dealing with nimrod and the tower of babel.

i have two bibles at home the nwt and the new american standard.

heres what th nwt says at gen 10:9.

Gozz

Sargon,

you here again compare incomparables; like apples, and peas. Do you doubt that those men upon whom David, that valiant warrior and king, executed the expression divine anger and punishment are deserving of the death that they met? We do not doubt the sanctity of life, but must maintain that the sustenance of that very life must cease once the giver of that life says so. The logic is beyond the human, beyond these earthly shores, for, apostates, and those reasoning like them will now quickly point to the existing systems and trends in this decaying world, namely, the preservation of human life, as expressed in the willingness of the nations to banish the death penalty. No, we make no argumentations about such, except that the 'logic' of death imposed by the judges and kings in the holy book were at the instance of Yahweh, who has the power to bring back to life the dead.

What is this about the difference between Jehovah and Yahweh? Do you not agree that they are but names, expressions resulting from attempt by humans to define the indefinable, through a perversion of naming things heavenly? You make a good point by refering, strictly, to Yahweh as being first revealed as the God of the Jews, those priviledged amongst the race of men. But that is simply a nucleus, the beginning of the widening of a greater revelation. You are probably on the path.

If men are to be hunted, they must be so at the order of some higher authority. Do you not take a cue form the nations of the world, who have themselves enacting laws prohibiting the hunting f even animals in certain areas. Is this too wonderful to understand? Can you imagine this? Our knowledge must be limited, there is some logic at play not understood by human brains, but as attested to, even by that one great man, whom you graciously quote, imagination, even on this earthly plane, is more important than knowledge.

40

Another NWT Mistranslation?

by Sargon in

ok, this post isn't out to prove anything, other than i've got too much time on my hands, which alot of you know that already.. over my morning coffee this morning i decided to read the section of the bible dealing with nimrod and the tower of babel.

i have two bibles at home the nwt and the new american standard.

heres what th nwt says at gen 10:9.

Gozz

How is it possible that a man, a hunter, who killed, possibly humans would not be in opposition to Jehovah? The completeness of the translation is made more sure, even by the prophetic word. Nimrod, that great man of old, evidently was in opposition to the Lord hinself. Do you doubt that?

27

Can You Believe this crap?

by Farkel in

when caught red handed with 10 years of signed documents where your leaders swore to uphold and promote the interests of the very organization you have vilified as satan's instrument, you now say, "i don't see that as a sin.

because you were caught?

also, if the proof is only "supposed," then where's a solid rebuttal to that proof without the ad hominems and red herrings?.

Gozz

Nassau, you quote Farkel, I suppose. But do you yourself suppose that the reckoning of time, accoring to the schedule of man matches that in the heavens? YOu may be a victim of falacious reasoning, for your words seem to convey the supposition that a decade of years is of great significance in the eyes of the almighty. A thousand years, the scriptures report, is like a day. You can do the math. Just think about it! The number of years that is wonderful in your eyes pales into totally significance, even in the face of this equivalence; a period of less than 15 minutes by the ticking of the clock on this earthly plane. Yet yhere is a simple error even in that rapid computation, you obtain a figure that dramatically pales into the depths of insignificance... But beyond the realm of mathematical computation, you must now think about reasons why this might have happened. Do you at all believe in the scriptures? For, if you cannot bring yourself to appreciate the marvelous things in that book, then there will be an incapacitation in the understanding of other things. Do you seek knowledge? Are you ready to dig for it, or rove on the pages, just as the anointed have progressively done at this time of the end? If you do, then you must experience great blessings yet untold. You will experience a peace absent from these slippery, tracherous shores.

38

The Clergy- Laity Watchtower Lie

by metatron in

jw
friends

i get sick and tired of hearing the watchtower lie that they.

have no 'clergy- laity' distinction.. the hypocrisy in this is almost incredible.

the society wants.

Gozz

Gozz: Who said that giving is wrong? Why does the Jws not use Paul as an example. He still worked as a tent maker so as not to place a burden on the brothers. Why not follow that example in the circuit work?

****On what reading do you base your comment. The gracious Apostle Paul did work as a tent maker, but that should not be misconstrued that he did at the expense, or suffering of the spreading of the good news. He certainly was not a burden on the brothers, and neither are those in the circuit work. Or do you complain? Do you not rrejoice in gracefully sharing with the holy ones int he good work they do? If you share, then, you must share with heartfelt appreciation, and with thanks. In the spirit of balance, the Apostle Paul, inspiringly encouraged unselfish sharing. Are you of the opinion that the brothers in the circuit are burden? I fear that you would have fallen to apostate propaganda, and the wicked reasoning of those not showing appreciation for spiritual things.

That way, a lot more money could go to what James calls the “acceptable form” of worship, namely, looking after widows and orphans. When the apostles took up collections, it was for the poor, not for the fat cats who, because of their insulated world, have no idea what it is to make a living.

****Take a moment to think about it! What if the Society were to hire people to do all the work that is accomplished, the printing of materials for the publishing of the good news, and sundry other tasks that lead to the smooth running of the organozation. At what cost will all that be? Surely, the work to be accomplished is enormous, and needs a great deal of organizational coordination and funds, which the scriptures clearly christen 'unrighteous riches'. Of course, the congregations are there to take good care of the poor, and share with them according to their needs. Is there a dearth of this wonderful sharing spirit in your congregation? You clearly show that your idea of making a living is inseparably linked with making money. There is money, and ther is life. And the work being engaged in by our brothers, though being obliquely despised by you, is the best work possible, and the best offering for a living that can be made. Do you not rejoice at that? It is Jehovah who makes rich, and adds no pain along with it. If the brothers look fat and well-fed, this should be a matter for rejoicing, even by you, for they have forsaken the pursuance of worldy riches, and have dedicated themselves, fully, wholesouled, to working what is fine. How is it possible that you make an argument against such a willingness to give, not things perishable, but the life, everlasting, in a city with no eartly foundations?

38

The Clergy- Laity Watchtower Lie

by metatron in

jw
friends

i get sick and tired of hearing the watchtower lie that they.

have no 'clergy- laity' distinction.. the hypocrisy in this is almost incredible.

the society wants.

Gozz

Metatron is clearly in error! Why should the Christian act of voluntaruy sharing, encouraged even in the noly scriptures be frowned upon? It is indeed a good act to share with the holy ones the wealth of this world. Or is it not? Would you rather that the Overseers beg for the necessities of this world? May that never happen! What the princes deserve in the new world, they can certainly get in this old world. You have a problem with that?

39

UN vs Watchtower Society

by joelbear in

jw
friends

the watchtower has pronounced the un as being the disgusting thing because it is trying to bring about world peace instead of putting its faith in jehovah to do that.. the watchtower claims to be jehovah's tool and itself attempts to unite the peoples of the world into a united organization going so far as to monitor and punish the behavior of individuals around the world.. how are the watchtower's actions different from the united nations actions?.

joel

Gozz

Mine field,

On whose authority do you claim that? And please don't tell me the WT, or else I'll puke. (figuratively, of course).

******Why would you not recognize the aouthority of the Society being currently used to asseble the nucleus of the coming peaceful new world? For what reason? Evidently, the Society does more quality reaserach than you do, United Nations Library or not; it is just as the Congregator said, to the making of many books there is no end. You will not notice events you have decided to be blind too. There's none so blind, Minefield, as those who would simply not see.

And why couldn't the UN proclaim certain years to be good years? As far as I'm concerned, they've did a lot more to help the world than JW's ever did. When's the last time JW's helped with poor people? With children? With non-JW's, as a whole? Without striving to convert them? Read your Awake!, Gozz. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at all the things the UN has done in recent years.

*******To the proclamation of years of peace and plenty there shall be no end. There can be no end, yet there will be, for real hope exists, Utopia lies ahead, and it will not be at the hands of the disgusting thing that ultimately causes desolation. Witnesses are helping poor people. Contrary to what obtains elsewhere, God's people are humble and lowly, living life at near the poverty line in the third world. Their brothers in more affluent lands continue to support them in the finest wayu possible: spiritually. Happy, indeed, are those cosncious of their spiritual needs. The United Nations work what is good, but the failure of that human organization lies in the diversion they create in making people look toward the real hope for peace. And what have you with conversion? Imagine the good work being done all over! It cannot be calculated in the currencies of this hateful world. Inmates in prisons being helped (see a recent Awake! issue, at no cost to tax-payers, reasearches being financed for the furtherance of good health - even you might benefit, I wish you good health though,the help provided to the deprssed, the diversion from daily stress, and the steady stream of healthful spiritual food! You have to admit it, this very community exists at the magnanimity of the Witnesses. Just think about it! The many people you have met here.

Of course, the WT wrote all that just to further their own interests, but I think they have made many excellent points.

***the Society has indeed made excellent points, thank for for your kind, and gracious admission. Some good can indeed come out of Nazareth.

And what's this about me belonging to the Watchman Class? What the heck are you talking about? I was never baptized. I don't belong to any self-righteous cult. And if, by Watchman, you mean a group that carefully analyzes the facts before screaming bloody murder (figuratively) your little name is completely off the wall.

***This is a misinterpretation. And I am glad you do not claim to be in the Watchman Class. You counsel me to wake up, and keep my senses. It is clear that a responsible Watchman will not sleep, nay, slumber. He must remain Awake! to sound the alarm at favourable and unfavourable times. You have not been doing that, have you? So, rightly, you are not the Watchman. A careful reading of the post you refer to tells clearly who the Watchman is. You must not despise the Watchman, for 'he' serves faithfully, alert in his senses, and sounding alarm as he sees. Last week's Book Study makes that abundantly clear. Also, learn not to despise little things.

You are the one who needs to be awaken from spiritual slumber.
We could say that about each other all day. So why not substantiate ourselves with arguments and hard facts instead?

***I recant. What hard facts do you require, then? The words are abundantly clear, and have no ambiguous interpretation, and even then, interpretations belong, not to man. Or do you not agree?

39

UN vs Watchtower Society

by joelbear in

jw
friends

the watchtower has pronounced the un as being the disgusting thing because it is trying to bring about world peace instead of putting its faith in jehovah to do that.. the watchtower claims to be jehovah's tool and itself attempts to unite the peoples of the world into a united organization going so far as to monitor and punish the behavior of individuals around the world.. how are the watchtower's actions different from the united nations actions?.

joel

Gozz

AMarie, I shall carefully answer your question in full. One of the posters on this hostile board has the quote. If memory does not fail me, seven006. But I'll search. It is a statement that lovers of truth have been carefully analyzing, carefully discerning the disposistion of the image of the beast to the efforts of the preachers of good news.

Minefield, you are totally in error. There is importance in little things, just as the littel one has become a thousand. A nation seeking big signs, when will you recognize the importance of little things? The United Nations are readying themselves, taking a closer look at the activities of the true lovers of peace. You forget, too quickly, the relationship between religion and politics. How sad! Your information is wrong! Has the United Nations, in furthering the lies of Satan, not proclaimed the year of peace, and other respective years to celebrate their sopposed successes?

For one belonging to th Watchman Class, it is presumptuous of you, I say respectfully, to foofer counsel about waking up. You are the one who needs to be awaken from spiritual slumber. You may find good use of the powerful figurative binoculars provided by the humble ones calling (I am sure) at your door, bringing good news of better things to come. Ther camn be no greater lie than to imply that the representative of the beast takes no interest in the activiies of the anointed ones and their companions.

9

Angry, Afraid, Depressed, ......

by joelbear in

jw
friends

we are an emotional group here.

you can see the hurt in our posts about the watchtower, our families, our screwed up lives.

you can see it in how sensitive we are to each others words.

Gozz

The nations are tumultuous! Are we to expect peace in the midst of those organized to oppose the anointed and their associated ones? Never. Whatever peace there is for any measure of time is temporary, and imposed by some force beyond the grasp of such ones, just as the scriptures say: there is no peace for the wicked. A sign of the times, the recent wars are a manifestation of the hurtful spirit pemeating the world, the will to tear down, and the justification of the self. These are clearly the things that have been aforesaid, they are words coming to a fulfillment. Is there any hope?

There is. For in the midst of the torrents of hate, is present an oasis of love. Think about it! A bear making peace! Historically, this has not been so. Bears are usually violent animals, ready to devour. It should be remembered that a bear it was that tore to pieces and shreds, those haughty 42 children, who perpetrated a disrespect of the prophet, Elisha. Out of the woods, a bear, no, two, emerged to carry out this judgement. But in a reminder of the prophecy of the lion sitting with the lamd in peace, we have a bear making the peace! all lovers of what is hateful, in words can take a cue from this.

A positive attitude is needed. Just as the last brother said, whose mind is already on the field of service. It is happifying to reflect on the good things, keeping a smile onthe face always!