Posts by winnower

8

Gopher's scripture is a Nephilim rendering

by winnower in

gopher, i am glad you brought up this scripture in luke.

luke 14:26:if anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own soul, he cannot be my disciple.

this is not what jesus said.

winnower

Gopher,

It is great effort for me to get to a computer. It has a pre-set 30 minute timer. I will answer you next time.

W

25

the sons of god began to notice....

by lilyflor in

nwt gen 6: 2. then the sons of the [true] god began to notice the daughters of men, that they were good-looking; and they went taking wives for themselves namely, all whom they choose.. where did these angels get their sexual urges from?.

winnower

I really think you are missing the point. The NWT refers to these nephilim as the sons of the "True" god. Isn't Satan the god-leader of the nephilim? Is the "True" god the god of this world? Isn't the god of this world actually "the wicked one"? Or is the "true" god the god in the heavenlies? Does the god in the heavenlies claim the nephilim as his sons? Or does the god of the heavenlies claim only Jesus as his son? Who is this "true" god? Which is this "true" god? "And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home..." I think it's rather interesting that the books that elaborate more on the nephilim have been removed from the books of the bible. This probably has more to do with the fact that the nephilim infiltrated the temples as slaves and later took on more responsibilities that were supposed to be forbidden to them. I think the nephilim "cooked the books". The story of the Nephilim is chronicled more fully in the Book of Enoch (part of Ethiopian biblical canon). Enoch, as well as Jubilees, connects the origin of the Nephilim with the fallen angels, and in particular with the Grigori (watchers). Samyaza, an angel of high rank, is described as leading a rebel sect of angels in a descent to earth to instruct humans in righteousness. The tutelage went on for a few centuries, but soon the angels pined for the human females and began to instruct the women in magic and conjuring. The angels consummated their lust, and as a result produced hybrid offspring: the Nephilim. According to these texts, the fallen angels who begat the Nephilim were cast into Tartarus/Gehenna, a place of 'total darkness'. However, Jubilees also states that God granted ten percent of the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim to remain after the flood, as demons, to try to lead the human race astray (through idolatry, the occult, etc.) until the final Judgment. In addition to Enoch, the Book of Jubilees (7:21-25) also states that ridding the Earth of these Nephilim was one of God's purposes for flooding the Earth in Noah's time. The Biblical reference to Noah being "perfect in his generations" may have referred to his having a clean, Nephilim-free bloodline, although it may be inferred that there was more diversity among his three daughters-in law. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim

16

The mark of the beast

by Lady Zombie in

jw
friends

since the rev book is being studied currently, one particular newish, but 100% believing (i assume) witness expressed her anxiety about revelation 13:16-17.. 16: "and it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead,..".

17: "and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name.".

anyway, after the book study was over and the chit-chatting started, the sister scooted up to the conductor and asked, .

winnower

Lady zombie, this link shows you what the mark will look like. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/156849/1.ashx Also the WT will eventually tell you that your baptism is your "mark" and that it has "sealed" you into the Kingdom. When the digital angel chip becomes widely used and accepted, the JWs will be encouraged to go along with the "dictates of Caeser" because that mark "means nothing" and is a security and protection for you. Do not believe this lie!

6

JW's call on one of the "Brights"...

by gaiagirl in

jw
friends

found this discussion of jw's from a "brights" perspective.... .

http://www.the-brights.net/forums/forum/index.php?showtopic=8433&st=0

winnower

Question:

"When I mentioned the bible was written about 200 years after jesus death and has been rewritten and translated many times through the centuries, they mentioned something like a 14 century bible translation they use which is the proper translation word for word unlike all those wannabe bibles you see knockin' about today. Can anyone throw any more light on this JW version?"

-------------------

Frosty, Hope you find this of interest and helpful in your search. excerpt (not from source listed above) For true Christians genuinely possessed by the [actual] Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ, THE bonafide Text is the ben Asher Masoretic Hebrew Text (without apocrypha) as edited by Kittel as the Old Testament, plus the New-Testament Trinitarian Greek Text edited by Scrivener. Using that Standard, we judge the ben Chayyim Hebrew text of the Old Testament as an inaccurate concoction, and the Westcott-Hort, Nestle-Aland, and United Bible Society texts as equally corrupt and satanically deviant.

Some of the corrupt English translators imply that passages of their [spurious] translaton are "based on more ancient and more reliable manuscripts." WHAT is meant by "more reliable?" "Reliable" is WHOSE opinion?" What is the acid test for "reliability?" The wrong opinion of the 400 idolatrous prophets of Baal? All of the majority-opinion lying clergy-prophets except Micaiah? The arrogant and belligerant blatterings of doubt-inciting heretics? Christ's Holy Spirit is The Convincer....not the presumptuous and lying babbling of faithless fools. The good-guy Bible translators state that certain English translations purporting to be "The Holy Bible" (such as the New Testaments of the RSV, NASB, NIV, NLT, etc.) omitted and changed crucial words of the Text based upon the corrupt Greek texts they used for translation. The bad-guy "bible" translators state that the KJV purporting to the "The Holy Bible" added crucial words and changed Text.

It is quite obvious that the bad guys are liars and heretics simply by the fact that their mistranslations frequently skip sequential verse numberings! Even a toddler can count sequentially, but apparently such sequential-numbering necessity is not understood nor accepted by fool heretics concocting NON-accurate mistranslations blasphemously dishonestly and deceptively mis-called "accurate" for the sake of greed-craving controversy-based sales and money!

19

The Ark of the Covenant

by sacolton in

jw
friends

.

do you think it could be found?

when was it last seen in the bible?.

winnower

What a nice picture! Is that Isis on the top of the box? I am glad you posted this because I was very interested in seeing the responses and where most people stand on this. This topic could be a wild and lively discussion if there is enough interest. But in the meantime, if I could add to your post, sacolton, I would like to ask a few more questions of the forum. What exactly makes this box a "covenant"? What items are in the box? What are these items used for? What is the "holy grail" (san graal)...is it 1) a cup 2)an ORB 3)a bloodline *hint* how would it change the meaning if it were spelled ARC of the covenant? (has anyone noticed an explosion of "orb shapes" and "arc shapes" used in visual media lately? could this mean something? ) Didn't Solomon build a glorious Temple to exact specifications for the purpose of housing the *arc*?? Has anyone else read the theory of how the design of the temple and construction of the box are parallel to the design of the human brain? Isn't that the last recorded history of it....in the Temple of Solomon? Let's play a game of Cluedo. SIX suspects, SIX murder weapons, SIX rooms....... now who are the characters? where did they come from? were any suspects from Babylon? did any suspects have nephilim lineage? what does the word "Templars" mean? who were they and why were they called that? Does it have anything to do with the Temple of Solomon? wasn't the WTS founder a "Templar"? If the pyramids are one of the "witnesses", could the *arc* be the second? What is so important about the arc of the covenant? And as for the precious metals used in the construction......what energy force might be conducive to certain combinations of these metals? Dinah, Did you believe that "God struck the poor man down just for trying to help"? Did it ever cross your mind that there could have been some sort of energy field being transmitted from the box, and it was just an inadverdent accident that the man died from being too close to the source? Maybe electrocuted from touching it?

14

A Piece of News

by winnower in

jw
friends

there are some little heel nippers on this board who have mocked, scoffed, and twisted my words.

that is to be expected, i suppose.

a new record every day or two!

winnower

This could be the Kiss of Judas. I suspect there will be some severe repercussions from Bush's ill-mannered

scolding of the Saudi's.

BUSH WARNS ARAB STATES ON WOMEN, OIL

May 19, 2008

In the final speech of his brief Middle East tour, U.S. President George W. Bush, cautioned Arab states on Sunday regarding the treatment of women in society and warned that the underpinning of the region’s economy, oil, is running out. Addressing delegates at the World Economic Forum in the Egyptian resort….. Bush lashed out at Arab states for their treatment of women. Bush also took the opportunity to warn oil-reliant states that they need to diversify their economies away from hydrocarbon-based exports. “The rising price of oil has brought great wealth to some in this region,” the paper quoted Bush as saying, “but the supply of oil is limited, and nations like mine are aggressively developing alternatives to oil.” “Over time as the world becomes less dependent on oil, nations in the middle East will have to build more diverse and more dynamic economies,” he said. The paper quoted Gerald Butt, the Editor of the Middle East Economic Survey, as saying that Arab nations would not take kindly to Bush’s remarks. “Arab states don't like being told what to do by outsiders, and especially by America , whose standing in the region is very low,” Butt said, adding that, “Bush’s comments will be dismissed as unwarranted interference.” (remarks in UK and Scotsman; author Joel Bowman)

14

A Piece of News

by winnower in

jw
friends

there are some little heel nippers on this board who have mocked, scoffed, and twisted my words.

that is to be expected, i suppose.

a new record every day or two!

winnower

Hello all. There are some little heel nippers on this board who have mocked, scoffed, and twisted my words. That is to be expected, I suppose. I have been accused of "predicting". First of all let me say "I" have nothing to do with it. The information I have given has not come from my own knowledge or intellect about high finances...because I know absolutely nothing about stock markets and all of that stuff. I do not participate and I do not even understand the terminology. It has never interested me. Secondly, I am not in the business of "predicting" anything. I will specifically say if it is my "impression" or if I am "speculating". Therefore, if I tell you something boldly as a fact that has yet come to pass, you may rest assured I have an infallible source. ("God does nothing without first telling his servants the prophets." Amos 3:7) I have not owned a television in over 10 years and it has been almost 2 years since I have watched a program. I do not read the newspaper. Sometimes I will find things I need to know on the computer, but it is all spirit directed. Usually I am looking for a confirmation of a "knowing" that I have received. (It is NOT like a "hunch"; it is a definite "knowing") I don't know any other way to explain it to you. I work from home and I don't socialize or get out much. The reason I am telling you this is so that you can know, that even if you are alone or in isolated conditions from the world, the Holy Spirit will provide whatever you need to know and guide you in what you need to do. You do not need to depend on the dictates of any religion or group for direction. It is no joy for me to deliver this news. It is not my intent to cause anyone to fear; it is my intent to uplift you in this...to help you to see the big picture, and to encourage you to have faith in our creator provider. In my original post in mid- April, I said "a catalyst event" would occur in the month of May. This event would cause a great economic crisis and "ALL HANDS WILL DROP". I also said it would lead to wall street folding up shop and their briefcases would be empty. Since then some people on the board here (Seeker 4, Caedes, Burn the Ships, Inking) have made some heckling comments. I am assuming that perhaps they have busy lives and they don't keep up with the news either. So for them, and also for others who may not be aware of how really severe this storm is, I have put together this information. I DID NOT say that there will be a market crash. Market crashes come and go. What is about to happen will be worse than a simple market crash and it will cause GLOBAL repercussions. One way that this differs from any market crash is that there WILL BE NO RECOVERY. (ahhh, there will be "an illusion" of recovery way down the road, but that is a manipulated plan also and I will not discuss that as yet. I have mentioned it in a previous post.) When I made the statement in my original post, it was made as a sort of an "aside"; economic collapse was not the focus of my post. It was intended to give you background information so you could understand that there would be great chaos and upheaval at the time when certain Tower changes I detailed would be implemented. Have you never wondered why information in the publications seem so perfectly timed to what happens in the world? It is because all these events are being orchestrated from a group of entities behind not only the watchtower, but most every religious establishment. When the bottom falls out and chaos ensues, the JWs have already been conditioned not to have to think for themselves and they will look to their leaders for guidance. What an opportune time to bring in these new changes! The people will be very vunerable and will never question because they are more afraid than ever and the tower "is all they can trust now." It is heartbreaking and sad to me and will be also for many of you. As a matter of fact, some of you here will return to the Tower at this point, thinking they have been right. They are liars and decievers and what I am trying to warn you about is that these events have been contrived and elaborately planned. This endeavor has been in the works for over 100 years. When this chaos breaks out the JWs will yell "armageddon". But this is NOT the real armageddon. I want you all to understand this. The tower teachings have very much misguided you as far as the chain of events. The scriptures tell us the events in this time in history will be like a woman in labor. The past few years we have been having contractions. Now, the water is about to break. Many of you are in denial that this is happening. You have been told on a weekly basis for years that the wolf was at the door...but wolfy never was. That, too, was another effective mind control maneuver on you. Now, it makes you angry if you hear anything about a wolf! Because in the day the wolf really comes to the door, you won't listen. I am going to present some headlines to you from the past 23 days so you can see the progression for yourself. I will start with the most recent first. Some may be a little out of order. Before I present this, I have some important words for you. DO NOT FEAR what is about to come. YOU ARE THE OVERCOMERS. You have been called out from among the evil that you fell into with your association with the Towers. Your hearts leaned toward truth; you were given a certain gift of discernment in that you recognized the lack of true spiritual fruitage in that environment. It is going to be a rough ride, but we will all be in the same boat. These things MUST happen. We have been promised that those who are destroying the earth will be brought to ruin. This is part of that promise being fulfilled during the immediate future ahead of us. YOU WILL EMERGE VICTORIOUS. In Revelation we are given instruction to both "watch" and "endure". Pray for strength and guidance at this time. If, after reading the accounts of the past 23 days, any of you think I have spoken falsely I would like to hear your comments. If you think I have spoken truthfully then maybe some of you will say hello. What Is Not Seen More on Stock Market Valuation posted in Economic Analysis May 22, 2008 The latest bull market lasted more than 17 years, from Oct. 1982 to Jan. 2000. Currently, the 10 P/E has been decreasing for 5 years, ever since the dot-com crash. With current levels above 25, it should be safe to say that the stock market, also from a fundamental perspective, is over valued. Do the math! Is The DJIA Setting Up for a Crash? TradingMarketsdotcom May 22, 2008 In 1987, just 8 weeks after hitting a market high, the stock market crashed. Should we be bracing for another crash? U.S. Ascendancy: Endgame May 22, 2008 The Seattle Times ....after the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Opec abandoned it's $22 to $28 price range for oil. The cost per barrel over 5 years rose to $100. (winnower comment: look how fast it is rising now! A new record every day or two!) From Associated Press: Oil surpasses $135 a barrel on new supply concerns Oil prices rose above $135 a barrel for the first time Thursday, with supply worries, global demand and an ever weakening U.S dollar driving crude futures up. Also on Thursday, The Wall Street Journal reported that the world's top energy watchdog is preparing a sharp downward revision of its oil-supply forecast. .....With gas and oil prices setting new records nearly every day, analysts have begun to wonder what might stop prices from rising. "The sentiment in the market is very bullish at the moment," said David Moore, commodity strategist with the Commonwealth Bank of Australia in Sydney . "The U.S. dollar was weaker last night, and also the U.S. EIA report showed an unexpected decline in U.S. commercial crude oil inventories , so there's a combination of factors pushing the oil prices higher." Crude prices breezed past $130 early Wednesday, then accelerated when the U.S. Energy Department's Energy Information Administration said U.S. crude inventories fell by more than 5 million barrels last week. Analysts had expected a modest increase. Investment bank Goldman Sachs last week revised its oil price forecast for the second half of 2008 from $107 to $141 a barrel. But some analysts saw the new target becoming a reality much sooner. "Futures are moving so fast that under the current volatility that goal could already be reached within the end of the week," said a report by Olivier Jakob of Petromatrix in Switzerland . Some analysts say crude has been boosted in recent days by especially strong demand for diesel in China , where power plants in some areas are running desperately short of coal. The Fed's Quiet Power Moves Supporters Say Bernanke Needs Flexibility, While Critics Worry Taxpayers Could Be Stuck Bailing Out Banks For a central banker, the most important parts of the job can be the most arcane. Federal Reserve Board Chairman Ben S. Bernanke drew few headlines when he sent a brief letter on May 13 to Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and four other congressional leaders about a seemingly obscure housekeeping matter. He asked Congress to authorize the Fed to pay interest to banks on the money they keep on deposit at the central bank, beginning immediately; under current law, the Fed can't pay interest until 2011. Bernanke's request could be a big deal. If approved it will set in motion a chain of events that could increase the Fed's flexibility and power in ways that many economists—and members of Congress—have yet to comprehend. It's part of his campaign to help ailing banks without spoiling the Fed's other mission, which is to control inflation. Once again, the mild-mannered Bernanke is forcing authors to rewrite their economics textbooks. Whether or not you favor increasing the Fed's muscle depends on how much you trust the central bank to do the right thing. Supporters say it's important to take the handcuffs off so the Fed can do whatever is necessary to prevent a credit crunch from setting off a generalized economic collapse. Skeptics say it's a mistake for the Fed to keep taking junky securities as loan collateral, putting taxpayers at risk to bail out bankers who made dumb loans and investments How could a simple thing like paying interest on reserves have such wide-ranging effects? It's a bit complicated, but plays out something like this: U.S. banks relend most of the money they receive in deposits, but they have to hold a certain percentage in reserve for safety. These funds, consisting of either cash in their own vaults and ATMs or deposits at the Fed, earn no interest. If banks could earn interest on their reserves at the Fed, they'd probably be willing to keep more money there. They could sell some of the Treasury bonds and bills they own to the Fed and put the proceeds in their reserve accounts. Or they could deposit more of their vault cash at the Fed, which would use the money to buy Treasuries. Either way, the change would give the Fed something it dearly needs—a bigger stash of Treasury securities to support its role as a lender of last resort. In fighting the credit crunch, the Fed has been exhausting its vast trove of Treasuries in recent months. It has lent nearly $140 billion worth to banks in exchange for relatively iffy assets such as mortgage-backed securities. In addition, so far this year it has sold $234 billion worth of Treasuries outright to soak up some of the excess money in the financial system created by its emergency lending to weak institutions. some excerpts from on-line Trade Journals: may 22 The bottom line for investors: Except for oil drillers, the high price of oil hurts nearly every industry in the stock market. Many stocks were expecting a lift from the economic stimulus package, but that might not arrive. Instead conditions could get even worse, and the hardest hit may be consumer discretionary stocks as many American skip on luxuries this summer. Oil prices reached nosebleed territory on May 21, moving above $133 per barrel in New York trading—on the same day that Federal Reserve officials expressed growing concern about inflation. Stocks Stumble on Record Oil; Inflation Worries May 20, 2008 Wall Street stumbled Tuesday after oil prices spiked to a new record above $129 a barrel and a government report raised investors' concerns about the impact of inflation on consumer spending. The Dow Jones industrials fell nearly 200 points. Crude jumped after OPEC 's president was quoted as saying his organization won't raise its output before its next meeting in September. That sent a barrel of light, sweet crude to a trading high of $129.60 before it finished just above $129 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange . Meanwhile, the Labor Department 's producer price report indicated higher energy and food prices might be seeping into other parts of the economy — compounding investors' concerns raised by higher oil. The department said wholesale inflation edged up by 0.2 percent in April following a 1.1 percent jump in March, but outside of food and energy, prices rose by a faster 0.4 percent — double what analysts expected. Wall Street is worried that a drop-off in consumer spending could ensue if wholesale price increases are passed along; consumer spending is critical because it accounts for more than two-thirds of the U.S. economy. Analyst Stephen Leeb believes escalating oil prices and their fallout have now replaced the health of the financial sector as the market's biggest worry. He said rising energy creates a "very vicious circle" through the economy, and thinks the government must take some kind of action to bring down prices. "Stock investors are watching oil, period," said Leeb, whose New York -based Leeb Capital Management focuses on crude and its impact on equities. "The events that moved the market before revolved around write-offs and foreclosures, but all that's changed." The retreat in major indexes reversed the optimism of last week, when stocks rose on a growing belief that the economy is still managing to plod along despite worries about both oil prices and the global credit crisis. The loss showed that the market has yet to shake off the volatility that has plagued it since the credit crisis began last summer. The mood on the Street was further depressed Tuesday by sluggish retail reports and comments from Federal Reserve Vice Chairman Donald Kohn that policymakers are inclined to hold interest rates steady. According to preliminary calculations, the Dow fell 199.48, or 1.53 percent, to 12,828.68, logging its biggest daily slide since a 206-point drop on May 7. Broader market indexes also retreated. The Standard & Poor's 500 index shed 13.23, or 0.93 percent, to 1,413.40, and the Nasdaq composite index dropped 23.83, or 0.95 percent, to 2,492.26. Bond prices rose as investors sought the relative safety of government securities. The yield on the benchmark 10-year Treasury note, which moves opposite its yield, fell to 3.78 percent from 3.83 percent late Monday. Gold gained, and the dollar fell against other major currencies. Concerns about rising inflation, spurred by higher prices for commodities, were the topic of a speech by Kohn. The policymaker said he was cautiously upbeat that the economy will recover, and that the central bank "appears to be appropriately calibrated" to manage inflation over the medium term. Meanwhile, the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago reported that U.S. economic activity weakened further in April and reached its lowest level since the 2001 recession. But some analysts believe the market's slide gave investors an opportunity to collect profits. Peter Cardillo, chief market economist at New York -based brokerage Avalon Partners, said Tuesday's decline doesn't change the market's long-term prospects. "The oil price rise is being done by speculators and does not reflect market fundamentals," he said. "But, it still has an effect on the consumer — and investor confidence is equal to consumer confidence, which has been having swings as of late." Cardillo is watching to see any kind of indicator about how much Americans are spending to get a better idea of how Wall Street views the economy. "It's a battle between prices and the consumer," he said, "and the consumer usually does win." Investors did get some data on consumer spending during the session. The International Council of Shopping Centers and UBS Securities showed chain-store sales fell 0.4 percent during the week of May 17, down from 1 percent the previous week. Investors also mined earnings reports from Home Depot Inc ., Target Corp ., and Staples Inc . for clues about consumers. Home Depot fell $1.50, or 5.2 percent, to $27.37 after it reported first-quarter profit fell 66 percent amid a continued housing slump. Target reported that profit dropped almost 8 percent on higher costs, but it beat expectations. Shares fell 63 cents to $54.29. Staples said profit rose 1.5 percent during the quarter, and reaffirmed its outlook. Shares rose 4 cents to $23.61. Banking stocks fell after Oppenheimer & Co. analyst Meredith Whitney said she expects the credit crisis to extend into 2009, and "perhaps beyond." She said firms like JPMorgan Chase & Co . and Citigroup Inc . have set aside $25 billion to cover losses, but might have to set aside about $170 billion by the end of next year. Citi fell 88 cents, or 3.8 percent, to $22.11. JPMorgan , which held its annual meeting Tuesday, dropped $2.29, or 5 percent, to $43.70. Advancers led decliners by nearly 2 to 1 on the New York Stock Exchange , where volume came to 1.24 billion shares. The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies fell 2.80, or 0.38 percent, to 735.65. Overseas, Japan 's central bank kept interest rates steady Tuesday amid lingering worries about a global slowdown. Tokyo 's Nikkei closed down 0.77 percent. In Europe , London 's FTSE dropped 2.90 percent, Frankfurt 's DAX fell 1.49 percent and Paris ' CAC 40 shed 1.70 percent. Prince Charles Climate Alarmism: Eighteen Months Until Disaster U.S. Hiding True Unemployment Numbers The Daily Reckoning Maybe this “recession” thing is why the Labor Department reported that the U.S. lost another 20,000 jobs in April. In fact, the economy has shed 260,000 jobs since New Year’s Day! No End In Sight For Home Foreclosures AFP Foreclosure actions hit a fresh all-time high in April of 243,353. Food Riots Are Coming to the U.S. Counterpunch May 11, 2008 IMF Sells Gold Reserves Australian News May 7, 2008 The Great Depression of the 2010"s Gold Seek May 5, 2008 We are today in the initial stages of another collapse that will lead to another Great Depression. The safeguards put in place to prevent such from happening were not only disassembled in 1999; but, now in 2008, the US government has moved even closer to exposing its citizenry and indeed the world to the speculative carnage and folly of investment banking excess. Layoffs Rise 68% in April Reuters May 1, 2008 U.S. companies’ planned layoffs jumped 68 percent in April from the prior month to the highest since September 2006, pointing to further deterioration in the labor market, a report showed on Thursday. Planned job cuts in U.S. companies totaled 90,015 last month, up from 53,579 in March and up 27 percent from a year earlier, ...... In truth, these investment banks are global entities and have no actual nationality no matter what jurisdiction in which they are legally domiciled. As such, they also have no allegiance except to their own self-interests. Bank of England: Get Ready for Increased Misery May 14, 2008 Daily Mail Families have been warned to expect a sharp fall in living standards as the Bank of England grapples with soaring inflation. Dynamics of the Global Economy Are Changing imf dot org May 9, 2008 The global economy is being buffeted by powerful crosswinds. Disruptive financial market turmoil is slowing growth in advanced economies. But emerging market economies have provided a measure of global resilience, although this has also set the stage for a boom in food and fuel prices. IMF Predicts Slower World Growth Amid Serious Market Crisis ...a sharp slowdown in the U.S. Financial Crisis: A Survival Guide The credit crunch now threatens UK investors. House prices are falling and stock markets are volatile. What to do if the UK economy follows the US into a sharp downturn. EU Says Consumers Suffer As Food, Oil Stoke Inflation May 14, 2008 European consumers are ``suffering'' as surging food and energy prices erode the value of their wages, finance officials said, urging governments to boost spending to help the poorest deal with the fastest inflation in 16 years. May 14, 2008 Oil prices rose to a record $126.98 today. WTO TELLS BUSH TO CUT TRADE BARRIERS, IMPROVE EXPORTS Friday May 16, 2008 (winnower: So who is really running this country? Has Bush obligated us to take orders from the UN affiliates now?) India's Inflation Unexpectedly Accelerates on Food May 16, 2008 India's inflation rate unexpectedly rose to the highest in 3 1/2 years, adding pressure on the central bank to raise borrowing costs further to tame prices. Consumer Credit Crisis Showing Up in the Cards May 14, 2008 The money drain from high food and gas prices is causing consumers to fall behind on home-equity loans at Bank of America - at an even faster rate than the bank forecast only three weeks ago. Food Costs Jump Most in 18 Years May 15, 2008 Washington Post Rising global grain prices helped spark the largest increase in monthly food costs in nearly 20 years, as consumers paid more in April for cereals and baked goods, and the dairy, meat and other animal products that rely on feedstocks, the government reported yesterday May 7, 2008 Oil Price May Hit $200 a Barrel The price of crude oil could soar to $200 a barrel in as little as six months, as supply continues to struggle to meet demands, a report has warned. Goldman Sachs energy strategist Argun Murti made the warning as benchmark US light crude passed the $123 mark for the first time. Surging demand was increasingly likely to create a "super-spike" past $200 in six months-to-two years' time, he said. Oil prices have now risen by 25% in the last four months and 400% since 2001. BBC news The Bush administration will temporarily halt oil shipments into the US Strategic Petroleum Reserve(SPR) for the rest of this year, the Energy Department announced Friday. The announcement came 3 days after Congress voted overwhelmingly in favor of suspending the purchases to ease the upward pressure on oil prices. (propellerdotcom) In 1999, the price of oil hovered around $16 a barrel. By 2008, it had crossed the $100 a barrel mark. (Feb. 19, 2008 =100) (nytimes) What a Deal: Trash for Treasuries May 18, 2008 Part of the Federal Reserve’s plan to keep Wall Street solvent — letting banks trade hard-to-sell securities for cash — could force the taxpayers to cover losses 18 May Reuters Spike in crude prices may significantly dampen market rebound, says IMF Washington Rising global oil prices could significantly dampen progress that has been made so far in calming financial markets, the International Monetary Fund’s chief economist said on Friday.

Federal Regulators Close Arkansas Bank May 9, 2008 ANB Financial banks closed by federal regulators over 'unsafe and unsound' practices David Barr, a spokesman for the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. says many customers served by the bank's nine locations had accounts under $100,000, which will be fully insured by the government. Barr says customers can continue to write checks and draw money from ATMs through the weekend. As of Jan. 31, federal regulators say ANB Financial had about $2.1 billion in assets and $1.8 billion in total deposits. It was the third closure this year of an FDIC-insured bank. Douglass National Bank, a Missouri bank with $58.5 million in assets, was shut in January; another Missouri institution with assets of $18.7 million, Hume Bank, was shut down in March. Both were dwarfed in size of ANB Financial, where regulators found lax lending standards, mostly for construction and development loans for projects in Utah , Idaho and Wyoming , as well as Arkansas . Watch Out Below The Croesus Chronicles May 22, 2008 Oil prices continue to surge to new records. Gold prices climb. Stocks retreat in the U.S. , Europe and Asia . The dollar goes south. Housing prices continue to fall. Consumer confidence erodes. The banking crisis has not hit bottom. Fed action is not enough. Congressional intervention is necessary. So says Thomas J. Barrack Jr., chairman and chief executive officer of Colony Capital, a California-based hedge fund, in his April letter to Colony partners. It may come as a shock--but Croesus believes we are only a third of the way through the credit crisis, and investors should get ready to experience more pain. As Barrack put it to Croesus quite directly this week: "The denial is beyond belief--at every level." The following are videos found at Forbes Europe Slips on Oil May 22, 2008 Crude climbs past $135 a barrel as Air France-KLM warns on fuel costs. Oil Tops $135 May 22, 2008 Soaring crude oil and Calpine's takeover captivates the Street. Record Oil, Wall Street Blues May 21, 2008 With crude at $133, central bank offers little hope for economy. AMR leads stock tumble. Street Tumbles on Record Oil May 21, 2008 Stocks crumpled thanks to crude at over $133. AMR announces plans to combat high fuel costs. Euro, Oil Keep Climbing May 21, 2008 Stronger German econ data sends euro up against the dollar, oil passes $130. Investors React to $130 Oil May 21, 2008 Stocks were mixed and Time Warner revealed plans for the separation of its Cable arm. Energy Sector Rises on Record Oil May 20, 2008 Oil hits $129 a barrel, airline stocks suffer, HP reports. ------end of video section---------- World Oil Price Near Record Highs May 7, 2008 World oil traded only a little below 122 US dollars per barrel Wednesday after concerns over supply in key producer Nigeria helped push prices to record highs in frenzied trading, dealers said. Morgan Stanley aims to axe 350 London jobs May 16, 2008 Morgan Stanley has begun a series of job cuts in London that could see at least 350 axed in the latest round of redundancies to hit the City. The US investment bank began cutting jobs on Wednesday, with the process expected to take some weeks as Morgan Stanley continues to restructure. Between 150 and 200 employees have already lost their jobs. News that Morgan Stanley would cut about 5pc of its workforce, or 1,500 globally, surfaced earlier this month but most of the sackings were expected to come in the US . The speed and scale of the cuts in London have taken some Morgan Stanley insiders by surprise. Could Oil Hit $200 in 'Super Spike'? May 10, 2008 Oil prices threaten to hit $200 a barrel in a final "super-spike" over coming months as producers fail to keep pace with blistering demand from China and the Middle East , according to a controversial report by Goldman Sachs. "We believe the current energy crisis may be coming to a head. A 'super-spike' end game may be in the early stages of playing out," said Arjun Murti, the bank's energy strategist. James Williams of West Texas Research Group said OPEC was right to be wary of the turning cycle. "If stocks build up at a time of recession, it creates the possibility of an unmanageable collapse. Oil could drop like a rock,"he said. Layoffs coming to Kintera May 8, 2008 One month after Kintera Software received notice regarding their de-listing from NASDAQ, widespread layoffs have begun at the San Diego-based company. The cuts happened ahead of the firm’s quarterly earnings call. Company spokespeople said that more than 40 people were cut starting Tuesday. The department losing the most jobs was finance, followed by marketing and product development. Roth Capital, one of the few analysts still tracking the stock has downgraded Kintera from “buy” to “hold” on Monday, 15 months after making it a “buy.” The stock closed yesterday at 56 cents per share. At its highest price, it fetched $17.73 in April of 2004. Kintera had raised $40 million in July 2003 with its initial public offering. AIG Posts $7.8 Billion Loss May 8, 2008 Credit Crunch, Earnings Reports, Insurance These blows brought AIG’s total write-downs due to the credit crisis to more than $30 billion, with another $9 billion-plus in damage just to the balance sheet, putting them in the same league as UBS, Citigroup, and Merrill Lynch. The massive losses scared investors and could deal a blow to optimists who had bet that the worst of the crisis had already passed. Canada Refuses to Bail Out Troubled Banks May 8, 2008 Yahoo Shares Fall 15% Yesterday May 6 Internet industry, Microsoft, Yahoo, Yahoo Microsoft Merger S&P Cuts Countrywide’s Rating to Junk May 3, 2008 Home Depot to Close 15 Underperforming Stores May 1, 2008 Planned Layoffs Rise 68% May 1, 2008 Gas prices, Layoffs Many of the pink slips were handed out in the financial sector, due to the housing slump and about $300 billion in write-offs on bad mortgages and investments. The financial services industry had announced 23,106 cuts in April with almost half of them occurring in a two-day period that saw huge layoffs at investment banks Citigroup and Merrill Lynch. The telecommunications sector was in second place with announced layoffs in April, coming in at 8,007 cuts, followed closely by 7,954 planned cuts in the transportation industry. Looking forward, fallout from record gas and oil prices may result in more layoffs than the housing slump caused, according to John Challenger, CEO of Challenger, Gray & Christmas. “The impact of high gasoline prices is rippling through the economy much faster than the housing collapse ever did or will,” said Challenger in a statement. Starbucks is Latest Victim in Economic Downturn May 1, 2008 Starbucks, which says that the current market conditions are the worst in its 37-year history, GM Posts $3.25 Billion Loss Sun Microsystems 3Q loss stuns Wall Street May 2, 2008 Toyota Stock Falls as Profit Declines Light and Medium Truck Trade Journal Wall Street falls as oil nears $US120 The Australian May 16, 2008 WALL Street stocks dropped overnight as investors worried about record oil prices, weak housing and cautious corporate outlooks. Associated press May 15, 2008 The Labor Department said the number of laid off-workers applying for jobless benefits rose last week by 6,000 to 371,000 — near the average analyst forecast, and suggesting that the labor market remains weak but in check. The Philadelphia Federal Reserve said regional manufacturing activity is contracting in May at a slower pace than in April, and at a milder clip than analysts expected. But the Fed said nationwide industrial output sank for the second straight month in April by 0.7 percent, due to big cutbacks in the automotive and other manufacturing industries. The drop was more than double analysts' average prediction. Layoff's Watch '08: JP MORGAN. YOU HEARD ME RIGHT. May 1, 2008 Apparently JPM has let go of their entire bespoke correlation trading team, to make room for the Bear guys, who will supposedly be getting their jobs. THE STREET IS COVERED WITH PINK SLIPS May 5, 2008 Filed under Banking/ corporate restructure/ Lay-offs/ M & A Earlier Monday, Dealscape highlighted talk of lay-offs at UBS. Now there's talk that Goldman, Sachs & Co. and Morgan Stanley will join in the lay-off trend. Bear Stearns Lay-offs Begin May 1, 2008 After weeks of anxiety-ridden anticipation the Bear-Stearns Cos lay-offs begin. As J.P. Morgan Chase and Company completes its $10 a share takeover of the bank, the employees at Bear Stearns have started receiving letters that notify them if they will remain employed... Reuters Automotive Armageddon May 14, 2008 BCC Warns of Worsening Outlook May 12, 2008 Breaking News The British Chambers of Commerce (BCC) has warned the economic outlook for 2009 is worsening, with a more prolonged slowdown in economic activity than was initially thought. NEW YORK (Reuters) - Warren Buffett, the world's richest person, said on Monday the U.S. economy is in a recession that will be more severe than most people expect. UBS Announces $10.9 Billion Loss, Job Cuts, and Tax Probe May 7, 2008 London The Swiss banking giant UBS, the European bank hit hardest by the tight credit market, said Tuesday that it had sold $15 billion of subprime mortgage debt and would cut 5,500 jobs as part of its cleanup, news that some investors saw as an indication that the bank was dealing with its problems. But the bank already faces new challenges elsewhere. Customers are withdrawing money from its asset- and wealth-management business Ortho Stocks May Be Vunerable As Job Losses Mount May 2, 2008 ..... Some analysts say the trend may continue as job losses mount, insurance policies disappear and post-employment health coverage expires. READ THIS ....Since Soros is a major supporter of a secretive Democracy Alliance, a group backed by rich liberals who fund a network of liberal-left groups, dedicated to electing democrats to the White House and Congress, could the discussion have also been political in nature? The American people should be quickly educated by our media on how very rich people like Paulsen and Soros make "bets" on the rise or fall of national currencies and economies. Paulsen is now telling investors "it's still not too late" to bet on more economic problems. These are capitalists who seem to have a vested interest in the further decline of the US economy. We may not know much about Paulsen, but we know a lot about Soros. He is a financial manipulator, convicted of illegal insider trading in France, for playing financial games with a bank there.

35

Sinus problems

by Wordly Andre in

i have had sinus problems my entire life, recently a friend told me about this sinu-cleanse thing, its a sinus cleansing treatment that you can get at cvs pharmacy, its pretty cool, its a little pot that you mix warm water with saline solution and put in one nostral and it drains out the other, the first time i used it i had a bad sinus head ache and thought well i will give this thing a try, so i mixed it up and did the treatment, blood clots and pink then red water started coming out of my nose, and after i noticed my headache was gone, i could breath great, and felt a lot less pressure in my head.

this thing is pretty awesome!

just thought i share with all of you.. sorry if its a bit gross.

winnower

test

13

More info: Future of Watchtower

by winnower in

in a recent post, journey-on had some very very interesting observations.

i am taking them a little deeper.. journey on said:i think they will go sort of mainstream if they see the slow leak has turned into a full blown rupture....but it will happen gradually and over time.

it is very apparent that you have given this a lot of deep thought.

winnower

In a recent post, Journey-on had some very very interesting observations. I am taking them a little deeper.

Journey on said: I think they WILL go sort of mainstream if they see the slow leak has turned into a full blown rupture....but it will happen gradually and over time. It is very apparent that you have given this a lot of deep thought. You are very alert and intuitive. I think you are absolutely correct. The mainstreaming will happen gradually, yes, just as you said, but in a sense "speeded up". Some changes will come soooo fast and there will be so many changes from week to week, that the JWs heads will spin like Linda Blair . There will be no time to "think" about the changes as there will be so many new ideas implemented all at once. (This has all been elaborately planned. It is not happenstance.) The new changes will be a relief and a joy. Why? Because these changes will be preached as "sharing the table", "preparing for the marriage supper" and "bringing in the Paradise". JWs will be ecstatic! These themes will also serve as a great distraction because the world will be in great chaos and economic upheaval during this time. J.O said: Most JWs don't pay that much attention to the incremental changes preceding the major ones. I am sure you have learned from your years of involvement, and even now in hindsight, see more clearly how the operation of distraction works. Those changes are quietly "slipped in" without fanfare while undue attention is focused on something trivial. The Tower is very skilled at this sleight-of-hand deception. Your observations are valid. J.O.said: mega KHs will be erected, complete with Youth centers, and Programs for Children. I think volunteer participation in certain types of ministries, such as some type of field service calls, visiting the sick and poor, assisting the elderly and infirm, etc. will be implemented. I think you are right on the money here. This is one aspect where they will give an "appearance" of mainstream. These programs are right in line with agendas that are being set forth by the United Nations and all the other organizations such as world church councils, etc. etc. It is all for appearances sake to show a "unified" front. All religions will have these programs. It will be homogenized and sanctioned by UN affiliate programs. J.O.said: The COs, DOs, and some exceptional POs will be provided specialized training that will lead to certification in marriage and family counseling,mental and psychological health issues. The certification will allow each (incorporated) mega hall to be insured against liability. They will still have to follow "Mother" as far as the basic doctrinal beliefs go, but will have a certain amount of autonomy to ensure their status as a separate legal entity. You are very astute in your observations. You are seeing a lot of what is to come. Why, if you had no conscience, you could even be on their team! Your ideas of reform are so on target! The certified people may come from other "denominations" as the tower will not spend the money to put anyone through training. They may send out some of their head honchos to train some r and f for minor positions. But accredited documentation will be the order of the day for anyone with rank. J.O. said: Most JWs cling to only three core beliefs that they feel truly set JWs apart as having the Truth: 1) Jesus is God's son sent to earth....He is not God Himself; 2) No hell fire where you burn forever for your sins; 3) No Trinity doctrine; 4) No immortal soul that goes to heaven for the earthly class. They await in death for a resurrection to a paradise earth.. As long as they believe JWs are the only ones teaching these, they will cling fast to the "Truth". Ahhh, but what if christendom itself begins to morph and accept these principles taught by the tower? It has already begun. Eventually JWs will take the credit for having helped to shape the world in "accepting these truths". Already the churches of christendom are/have been phasing out the steeples, the cross, and the other icons. I could show you many churches that no longer use steeples. Look around you. Search images. You will see that all these things have already taken place. There is much talk now of the "emerging church"...singular. One body; one church. There is a new umbrella encompassing all of the protestant churches now. If you go to google images and search "catalyst, catalyst church, catalyst church logos" you might find a few surprises....like this church logo.... Don't you think it's rather eerie to see the watchtower in the foreground? And the two red crosses which are on the seal of the Knights Templar ? (what does the phrase "double cross" mean to you?) Christendom will be gradually moving away from their "rapture" theory to embrace the paradise earth. Even now, the christian churches are moving away from the idea of a "personal rapture" (where those who think they are special to god are lifted to heaven out from among the chaos of tribulation) to a new meaning of "rapture" . They will soon tell the parishioners that "rapture" means the "raising" of the church itself by renewal in thinking. No one is "going" anywhere. The new earth is right here being directed from the "heavens". Actually, this is no more than the agenda of the UN one world united to restore the earth. (They have no intention of ever really accomplishing this. It is just a story put to the people to convince them of their altruistic motives. Once the people are convinced they can make world unity/world peace a reality, those misguided people will be slaves to the entity behind all of this.) Unity must be restored in order to bring peace. Unity will bring everyone together for a common effort; the goal-- to save the planet. And religious and political differences must go in order to achieve that unity. It will be preached from the scripture that "this is the new earth coming down from heaven", as in being directed from heaven. Like, from god's mouth to the ears of the FDS. In actuality, this will be the word "coming down" from the Sons-of-God nephilim. They are deceivers. They are the ones who have planned these things for many years and are now bringing it all to fruition. In christendom the leaders are currently beginning to establish a "neutral ground" for all religions. Buzz words like "all paths lead to god". "All wisdom comes from the same source." One of the aspects of this neutrality is no more proselytizing. No dominant religion. Even your major protestant divisions are now establishing new churches and getting away from the labels of "lutheran", "methodist", etc. They are under the umbrella of denomination still, at this point, but the names of the church institutions are changing as are the creeds and the beliefs. Soon, they will all look the same. Uniformity. Bee-hive mentality. The JWs will gradually give up field work as the neutral ground becomes more established. All these years the JWs thought they were the only ones who studied the same lesson world wide each week. How many times was it said "we are all on the same page". Go anywhere in the world and the lesson will be the same that week whether its Africa or the UK? Well, other churches have been doing the very same thing on an international scale for quite sometime. But being involved in the WTS, many constituents have not noticed this because they have been no part of "christendom". Back to your basic truths... While some protestant organizations have taught that Jesus is god...that faulty logic within christendom is surfacing. (Just like the faulty logic of watchtower is surfacing for many of you here.) The "jesus is God" and the "trinity" misconception is gradually being done away with in the world of christendom. Jesus is going to have to ride in the back seat. Why even the tower has further demoted him by now simply adding him in as an extra in the 144,000. Soon, Jesus will be left out. That is why those who go along with these new world teachings will be called the "anti-christ". It's not that they are against Christ, they just will no longer recognize him as being anyone too important or special. J.O. said: No hell fire. Christianity comes to terms with that also.There will probably be a pit for burning the bodies of the dead who have not taken the "mark". They will be viewed as "opposers" to the new Paradise Kingdom. This is the Great Deception because this "paradise" is to be brought about by man's effort, even though they are being told that it is "being directed from above." This will be a lie and many will believe it. Since these people without the "mark" will be cut off from society, many may die of starvation, crime killings, lack of medical care. Because they have no wherewithal (money, goods) to participate in the new society their bodies will be gathered and dumped. Thus, "the birds will feast on them" and also these designated pits may burn a long time to keep down the spread of disease and contamination. God does not "kill" anyone. We will be "peacefully annihilated" by our fellow man. This direction does not come from above; it comes from behind. It is being directed by an element behind the UN. It's direction is ultimate power and control, with the agenda of de-population of objectors and the rest will be slaves to those powers until they become a burden or unnecessary. Shunning will be re-vamped, and "the godly hate" will be preached; thus making shunning more personal in nature rather than dictated by an organization. These people who do not go along with establishing this (false) Paradise will be hated and promoted as those who do not love God (because they actually do not bow to the dictates of man and can see through this sham.) J.O.said: Doctrines I think will either be slowly done away with or modified to be conscience decisions and not frowned upon: 1) Celebration of birthdays and holidays 2) Voting 3) Blood Transfusions 4) Door-to-door preaching Journey-on, I am so glad that you are seeing so much of what is to come. This is very accurate. The celebration of holidays will definitely change. Celebration will still occur, but the type of holidays will be new. They will be "global holidays" and will begin to phase out the old standards like xmas. Some new holidays have already become established, but will gain in popularity. They are called UN recognized holidays and include "earth day" "world environment day" "world maritime day"...and "all saints day" for halloween! I am sure there will be more to come. The door-to-door will be totally done away with. I expect this within a year or so. Voting will be a thing of the past. Offices will be "appointed" and will adhere to specific credentials for the job. The way things are now, any joe blow can run for a city , county, gov office with only the qualifications of popularity, money, connections. In other words....we got into a lot of this mess by allowing people with no brains and no heart to take positions of leadership. Blood transfusions... Each sect or "denomination" will hold onto little nuances that are specific to its creed. That's why the "neutrality" aspect will be enforced in major areas of doctrine. There will be so much else going on during that time that I am sure some of these things will no longer be the focus or cause an issue.

8

Gopher's scripture is a Nephilim rendering

by winnower in

gopher, i am glad you brought up this scripture in luke.

luke 14:26:if anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own soul, he cannot be my disciple.

this is not what jesus said.

winnower

Gopher, I am glad you brought up this scripture in Luke. Luke 14:26: If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own soul, he cannot be my disciple. This is NOT what Jesus said. This scripture has been very much "doctored" by the Nephilim temple servants. This is BLASPHEMY. This is why the nephilim and their ilk must be destroyed. They have perverted the words Jesus came to give us. These are the ones meant for destruction at Armageddon. Not you. The destruction is not meant for innocent people; it is meant for the truly evil, the blasphemers, and the nephilim lineage still present today. What Jesus actually said was "if anyone comes to me and yet hates (mother, father, brother, wife, etc) then he cannot be my disciple." NEVER EVER did Jesus advocate hating anyone! Jesus said: Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you; that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven." Do you see a discrepancy here? Do you think it would be characteristic of Jesus to blatantly go against one of the ten commandments which says to "honor thy father and mother"? Do you think it would be characteristic of Jesus to preach both love and hate out of the same mouth? If Jesus had any room in his heart for hate, would his last words at the hands of gruesome torture, have been "father forgive them, for they don't realize what they are doing"?? and again, with emphasis: Luke 14:26: If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own soul, he cannot be my disciple. Now, how does that compare with this: 36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”
37 Jesus said to him, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ [ d ] 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ [ e ] 40 On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Now, if you are to "hate your own soul" how could it be possible to love your neighbor as you love yourself? Luke 14:26 is a blasphemous, purposely mis-translated lie! Jesus did not make duplicitous statements like this. Luke 6:27-36 [27] "But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, [28] bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. [29] If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. [30] Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. [31] Do to others as you would have them do to you. [32] "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. [33] And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. [34] And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. [35] But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. [36] Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Does this sound like a man who would ever advise hatred toward mother, father, sister, brother, husband, wife? Luke 14:27 Whoever is not carrying his torture stake and coming after me cannot be my disciple. BLASPHEMY! Jesus did not say this. This is what he said: Matthew 11: 28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.” Are you beginning to see that these scripture comparisons do not add up? Have you ever known someone so well that if they were accused of something you would know without a doubt they were incapable of such a thing? You can know this only if you have a personal relationship with Jesus and have guidance from the Holy Spirit. and again: Luke 14:27 Whoever is not carrying his torture stake and coming after me cannot be my disciple. Would it make any sense that Jesus would use this illustration of what would be his death...and use it in such a threatening way....as a condition of acceptance? Would he use this imagery in such a light, blase, off-hand manner? Did he ever "carry-on" about how he would die by torture and was sacrificing for everyone? (In the Garden of Gethsemane) Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt. Even hateful people have been known to say this (pain, disease, misfortune) is so horrible I would not wish it on my worst enemy. With that in mind, can you imagine Jesus wishing, no...requiring that his followers experience horrors and torture? Now, does this sound like something Jesus would say... "Whoever is not carrying his torture stake and coming after me cannot be my disciple." Is this something he would wish on others? Or demand of others? That entire length of verse Luke 14:26-33 is totally out of character for Jesus. I would like to emphasize one more verse. Luke 14: 33 Thus, you may be sure, none of you that does not say good-bye to all his belongings can be my disciple. Once again, Jesus never said this. This is an arrogant, self righteous "you have to play by my rules" statement. Jesus did not speak like this. He did not make outright demands and conditions on people. Often, he gave an illustration and always, he made people think about having a choice of actions. Jesus gave comfort and kindness, not ultimatums. This statement is not within the character of Jesus. This scripture sounds like something a spoiled brat kid would say..."I've got the tinker toys, I can make all the rules. If you want to play at my house you have to do everything I say." Compare that last scripture with this. Matthew 13: 45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls: 46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it. The "pearl of great price" is TRUTH. Jesus always gave food for thought and always made it clear that your life is your own and you always have options. But, to seek the truth will always be costly because it bucks the system. And to SPEAK the truth, you will risk your life. This is why Jesus was murdered. The religious hierarchy hated him because he showed them up for the liars they were. He never kow-towed to their rules and dictates. They did not like having the truth about themselves exposed. It jeopardized their power structure and finances. Can you see a hidden agenda here? Luke 14: 33 Thus, you may be sure, none of you that does not say good-bye to all his belongings can be my disciple. This verse was added for a reason. It was so the temple "religions" could co-erce more money out of their flock. "Give it up if you want to follow Jesus." And believers would oblige, because, after all, it was written in the holy book. Many generations have passed without "seeing" the translation additions and changes. Few had the guts to ever question these "authorities" calling themselves preachers. SIlence in the church! The church arrangement is fixed in a way that people really have no chance to ask questions or have discussions. They are always being "talked down to" from a pedestal. Only by having a personal relationship with Jesus, can one learn more deeply about the character of Jesus and his mission. Without the personal interaction of prayer, there is only the dictates and traditions of man. Even the few preserved words of Jesus have been bastardized by the nephilim temple slaves. Gopher, you profess to be an atheist. That voice comes from your anger and your frustration. You wish you could give up. But you can't. You are still searching for the truth and hiding behind that label. You are very tender hearted and a man with a strong conscience. You are very supportive of your friends and even strangers who need a kind word, you give it. You have a lot of empathy for people. You are a very sensitive, kind soul. There is so much you have not understood in your search for truth because you haven't let go of the wrong misleading teachings of the Watchtower. Some of those false teachings are so ingrained in your thoughts. Gopher, what is missing is that you do not have a personal relationship with Jesus. Simply talk to him like an invisible friend. Just talk. No groveling required. Just address him as your mentor and friend. Ask him to show you the answers to your questions. God created man because he was lonely. And now we must depend on Jesus, our intercessor, because God is too far removed from us at this point in our development. Everyone has the right and the opportunity to speak to Jesus, not just some elite buffoons in the GB who claim the privilege. And believe me Gopher, he will listen and you will come to recognize when he answers. "The prayers of a righteous man availeth much." PS. I do not know you personally. I speak as the spirit leads.