Posts by greven

10

WTBS God's faithful slave?

by imallgrowedup in

i have been doing "scriptural battle" with my mother and step-father who have been practicing witnesses for nearly 40 years (i did not grow up in their household), and i need an answer to a question i have not been able to find on every jw website i have been scouring.

perhaps someone out there can enlighten me!(?).

i am trying to understand where the wtbs got the idea that they are "jehovah's faithful and discreet slave"?

greven

Nice points, Hooberus!

Greven

153

Has your life gotten better as an athiest/agnostic?

by StinkyPantz in

this quote got me thinking:if you pray sincerely and admit you are a sinner and accept christ as your savior you can have the holy spirit come into your life.. .

i used to do this everyday.

when i was being abused, i used to pray incessantly for god to help me.

greven

Hi myxomatosis (funny handle!),

I think you misunderstood my post a bit...

You reacted to this piece of my post:

Why would you base anyhing, like the existance of God, on faith at all? I am not saying you are wrong. Your conclusion can be valid, but should be build upon solid research, get the facts, look upon the issue from various stances, hear pro and con and then make up your conclusion

This was a reaction to hamster:

You're asking me to justify and more or less prove why I believe in God. How in the world am I supposed to do that? Especially when the religion is based around faith.
If you seriously want answers, then I suggest you talk to someone more qualified than me. All I can tell you is how I believe. I do know some things about the Bible, but I can't scientifically prove everything.
And if neither side can be proven, then why are you scoffing at my beliefs?

Here he states that he has no facts to back up his faith. And this is what I atacked. I did not state that there are no facts available that could justify faith. Nor do i believe all Christians are airheaded, for from it! You seemed to think that I did. No, faith is fine but one should be able to give the facts it is build upon, he simply stated that he couldn't prove anything and that it therefore came to faith. Now that is not (at least for me) reason enough to believe in (a) God(s).

You, on the other hand, seem to have solid reasons for your faith and believe in God. You have done extensive research into this matter! I am very interested in your reasons for faith and belief, please enlighten us so we can have a debate.

As to your question:

Ok, so it's quite obvious you've read the arguments against the Bible, Christianity, wotever, I am curious to what you've read on the 'other side' of that, the facts that are more to the pro leaning you know?

Phew! What have I read? Well I visited multiple websites both pro and con for example:

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com and a christian refutation of this on http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.org

http://www.talkorigins.org/

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/other-links.html#creationism (done numerous websites here)

http://www.talkorigins.org/origins/other-links.html#evolution (most also done)

Also I followed debates between people arguing for and against the infallability of the bible ( regular debates are held at: http://www.infidels.org , (find it in the forums) and on http://www.theskepticalreview.com)

Also I read numerous books pro and con but the titles...wooofff bad memory. Anyway I gave both sides a good hearing for more then two years before reaching my conclusions. I must admit however that I hardly read anything about easter religions. After tossing the Judeo/Christian concept of God I moved to the existance of God(s) in general. So I went beyond holy books and religion, reviewing the concept in general.

Oh almost forgot to mention: I am an undergraduate student biology (graduate to master this year if everthing turns out ok...) 'Mere Christianity' C.S. Lewis? Never heard of it. I will get it. Thanx for the suggestion. May I give a sugestion as well? 'Small Gods' by Terry Pratchett, a very amusing book that mixes philosophy and religion with Monty Python like humor. It may change the way you think about it, if not it's still is a very entertaining book that you will enjoy.

I think the ultimate test for anything is not that it can be 'proven' but it CAN NOT be disproven.

My guess is that you are getting sleepy . Realist answered this quite well. There are few things that can be disproven, the existance of a square circle for instance. But for most claims, especially extraordinary ones, positive proof is needed before belief. Remember disbelief is the default.

Thanks for your nice replies! It's nice conversing with you. Welcome to the site btw.

I am looking forward to your reply, sleep well !!

Greven

10

Thanks from the not so distant past.....

by observant_one in

i just wanted to say "thank-you" for this forum.

wow!

wasn't that original?....

greven

Wow!

This was one great post. Glad to see our activity does not get unnoticed! It would be interesting to know how many lurkers we already helped.

Good luck on your further journey!

Greven

16

New home for Watchtower Bookshelf collection 1940-1950's books

by Jourles in

jw
friends

i have put up the recent watchtower books on dirtclod.com for everyone's general use.

instead of putting up the entire collection in one large file, i simply broke down the books individually so you can browse them more easily.

have fun!.

greven

This will help splendidly! Especially Divine purpose which is hard to get!

Thanx,

Greven

21

There's just something about theists that say they were once atheists....

by logansrun in

jw
friends

you know the type, the ones that say, "oh yes.

i tried to not believe in god..." or "when i left the jws i became an atheist, but since i found jesus..." simply put, i don't believe them.

i don't think they ever really stopped believing in god.

greven

Good points all!

The problem lies greatly in how the atheist is portayed in theist litterature: they make out of the atheist a strawman, making the position such one takes unreasonable. Becoming an atheist because one is angry at God is impossible as has already been pointed out. You can't get angry at something you do not think exists.

Btw, why do people keep misspelling atheist as athiest? Or am I missing something?

32

l'escargot

by Englishman in

jw
friends

how do you prefer your escargot's?.

with butter and garlic sauce or without?.

i like them with butter and garlic with a sprinkling of parsley too.. englishman.

greven

Haven't tried yet!

But I will try anything! I have already eaten some nifty stuff:

*Crocodile

*Ostrich

*Kangaroo

*Grasshoppers (Locusta migratoris)

*Common mealworm (Tenebrio molitor), alive.

Greven

153

Has your life gotten better as an athiest/agnostic?

by StinkyPantz in

this quote got me thinking:if you pray sincerely and admit you are a sinner and accept christ as your savior you can have the holy spirit come into your life.. .

i used to do this everyday.

when i was being abused, i used to pray incessantly for god to help me.

greven

First of all, I was a Christian long before I encountered the JWs. And I only studied with them for a year.
And the first line I quoted seems to indicate you left with a bad taste in your mouth.
That could explain why I'm a believer and many of you are not. I don't have an axe to grind against Christianity based off one group that only makes up less than 0.01% of the population.

I really didn't leave with a bad taste in my mouth or an axe to grind against Christianity. When I left I considered myself a free christian, ie simply following Christ's teachings and (let me underline this:) there is nothing wrong with this. Much of what is contributed to Christ is morally sound and makes one a better person: for instance the Golden Rule.

When I left though, I was determined to find objective truth: how do I know there is a God? Is the bible reliable, inspired? etc etc. These are not details! An entire beliefsystem is constructed upon it, and a life adjusted to it. My queste for truth showed these to be uninspired, inconsistent and often plain wrong. That doesn't mean I toss the moral codes, mind you. It simply means I do not see the writings as God's but human.

Greven

30

Hello! New kid on the block.

by Hapgood in

jw
friends

first of all i would like to thank simon and angharad for this wonderful board.

it has been a lifesaver!

thank you from the bottom of my heart for all your hard work and time spent on this board.

greven

Sounds like your daughter is ok, Hapgood!

I wasn't raised very strict either and as a consequence I do not have the mental anguish (sp?) some people experience when they leave. I really didn't believe it anymore with solid reasons why, and am able to tlak about it freely with my parents. They are becoming inactive too, so who knows? maybe tey'll leave as well! I am not very angry or vengefull. I just moved on.

Welcome again!

Greven

153

Has your life gotten better as an athiest/agnostic?

by StinkyPantz in

this quote got me thinking:if you pray sincerely and admit you are a sinner and accept christ as your savior you can have the holy spirit come into your life.. .

i used to do this everyday.

when i was being abused, i used to pray incessantly for god to help me.

greven

Oxham:

After being thoroughly deceived by people into believing JW's have the absolute truth I vowed I would never believe people without doing research myself.

Why would you base anyhing, like the existance of God, on faith at all? I am not saying you are wrong. Your conclusion can be valid, but should be build upon solid research, get the facts, look upon the issue from various stances, hear pro and con and then make up your conclusion.

Throwing in a wild conclusion and then stating as only reason belief, is not advisable.

'Our government is run behind the scene by three eyed, snakeskinned, "trweeerrrp!" sound making aliens weraring funny hats!!!'

'HUH? What on earth makes you think that?'

'Just my belief' / 'read it in a book somewhere' / 'Santa tolled me'

'Ah, that's ok then'

Your conclusion that there is a God could be valid, yet you should be able to give a good reason, or foundation for such a dramatic conclusion (were talking here about an extraordinary powerfull being!) . Belief alone is not a good reason: many people believe in E.T's. Some believe in fairies, others are convinced the Loch Ness monster exists. They do not become real because people believe in them. Do you believe in any of them? If not: why not? Try to find the reason why you do not believe in them and then you'll see why many people do not believe in God. --> Absense of evidence for, and plenty against.

This board is not atheist only: there are theists, agnostics, deists, atheists etc etc there are even a few JW's!!!

Hey guys be kind towards hamster! Or feel the terrible wrath bellowing up my nostrils!!! Mwuhahahah

Greven

46

Are you a good kisser?

by Maverick in

jw
friends

a regular at the local diner was sitting in his usual spot, all long in the face and sad, when his friend the waitress came over to take his order.

"why so mopey?

", she inquired.

greven

I've got a tongue like an electric eel and like the taste of a girl's tonsils!!!

Wooooofff!!!