Just curious, why would home schooling lead to a future in window-washing?
AuroraB
JoinedPosts by AuroraB
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35
Home Schooling
by WTWizard init seems that there are a lot of witlesses that opt to home school their children.
i had a family in my former congregation that did that, because the kids did not want to be around worldly people (sounds familiar?).
it also seems that they are speeding things up, so the children can get out there and pioneer that much sooner.
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Bye for now
by freedomfighter into everyone who is part of this forum.. i won't be on here for a while as i am seperating from my wife.
i have found a place with a workmate.. thanks for your comments and support through difficult times.
i am starting a new chapter in my life.. jw's have "destroyed" my life and seperated me from my friends and family.
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AuroraB
All the best FF.
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an interesting experience
by ldrnomo inover the last 7 years i have been helping a young man who is now 16 and whose mom is a witness.
his mom has three children all different fathers the young man i have been helping had a father in prison and 6 months after he was released he was shot and killed so my young man has never really had a father.
since i have stopped going to meetings about a year ago his fat ass mother who is basically worthless has resisted my help to her son.
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AuroraB
LD, I'll apologize in advance for the length of this post, but I see so much of myself in what you're trying to do that I have to go into ranty, lecture-like mode—Again!
I know that as Christians, we are eager to help people. However, we have to be careful that our help takes the best form for those on the receiving end, and sometimes what we WANT to do is not what we should do.
Maybe you have first-hand experience with becoming an emancipated minor, and maybe not. But I hope you have considered all that might happen to him if he leaves his mom's house and goes off to fend for himself. What seems to be the best thing at the time can turn out to be the exact opposite.
He's got to be ready to go to court and say, on permanent record, that he would be better off without his mom. Even kids who are being physically, emotionally and sexually abused find that, at the very least, an extremely traumatic thing to do. He has to be prepared to support himself. Does he have a job that will actually pay the bills? Does he have the motivation to make it through high school and college? Does he know how to write checks and pay bills and what the consequences are if he doesn't pay his bills on time? Does he have a support system in place outside of his family, and other than you? If not, he's going to get lonely at some point and go back to his family. And you're not going to be very comfortable with that after all you've done to "help" him.
There is a serious mind-set that comes along with going on welfare. Whole generations of people get trapped in the system, and find it impossible to get out. If you are going to help him get on welfare, are you prepared to ensure he will not remain in the system for the rest of his life? Does he have the moxie to use the welfare system for what it is there for—a boost up and a way out?
More than this, are you and your wife willing to act as actual surrogate parents when he faces difficult times ahead? He'll need that. Not just a place to live, but someone who is watching to make sure he's eating right, keeping on track, not getting into debt, keeping happy. When you get the call in the middle of the night that his mother has kicked him out, will you go to pick him up and support him emotionally and financially--let him live with you until he has become emancipated and has found a permanent residence? How long will that take? Being a minor, can he choose to simply go live with you for awhile, even if his mom kicks him out? Or will his mother report you for kidnapping (which she seems perfectly capable of and inclined to do at this point)? Can you even let him live with you legally, or will he have to go into the foster care system? If he's in the foster care system, will he be placed in a family or in a group home (which might be no better than prison)? Is the foster care system safer than where he is right now? He might need money, he might need advice, he might need to live with you in the future if he can't make things work out with your brother-in-law, or even after college! He will need serious emotional support--if not therapy—so he can avoid the trappings of depression when he realizes he's lost his family, or lost a huge connection to them at the very least. It's a big responsibility; there's nothing easy about it. And if you're seriously suggesting the situation is bad enough for him to become emancipated, then I wouldn't wait for his mother to kick him out of the house. Help him now. Offer to bring him to a lawyer or to a therapist who works with children, or to social services so that he knows what emancipation involves. Or you can go without him and find out EXACTLY what he has to do, and how much involvement you would have to have. Educate him. That might let YOU know how serious he is about your help. And from what I can tell of who you are, I'm sure you'll be there for him—because helping him become emancipated and putting him on welfare is only the beginning.
There are many other solutions that might help him get through this time period without uprooting him from the only home he's ever known. This kid is 16-years-old. He has less than 2 years left to live under his mother's roof. It may be easier and wiser to help him learn to live with his mom and then get into college on the other side of the states (even out of the country) when he turns of age. Help him keep his grades up. Help him find scholarships. Help him find a good job and a car--or even help him open his own business! Teach him how to be responsible with money. Give him a way to get in touch with you without his mom knowing—a simple cell phone with text messaging should allow him to access a free email account, right? Or he could visit the library and email you from their computers. You could communicate with him that way. And keep any disparaging comments about his mother OUT of writing in case she finds the phone and tries to use it against you in some ridiculous accusation. He's black? The state and federal government will practically pay for black male students to go to college to become a teacher. In some states, they'll buy you a house for putting in a few years of teaching in the inner cities! He doesn't need a 4.0 GPA to get to college on scholarship and grants, but if his GPA is 3.8, then he has options other than being an investment banker—even if that's what he SAYS he wants to do.
When I suggest you pull back, it's for your own sanity as well as his. I've seen poems like what your friend wrote. He is obviously in a lot of pain. I've been through situations similar to yours on four different occasions, and I attacked them with the same vigor you seem to be using; having that wholesome, christian motivation to help people thrusting me forward. In two of the situations, the parents asked for help with their kids. In three of the situations, I took steps that were similar to what you seem to want to do—drastic. None of those situations turned out well, because what I didn't realize is that even when people ask for help, they are only asking you to do so much and to go so far, and anything beyond that is unwelcome--even if you feel it's necessary. I felt angry afterwards when the kids were sucked back into their families; used, like I had wasted my time (which of course, I didn't. I know I made a lasting impression on those kids even though I wasn't able to do all I wanted to--some of them have told me so). It's very painful. And the kids are worse off in the short term, not better. More than that, they tend to do exactly what they are most familiar--which is whatever their parents taught them to do. They may remember you and what you tried to teach them, but it's not always enough to get them to change tracks. When I look back, I realize that I wasn't really trying to "help", I was trying to "fix". And some things can't be fixed, just mended with the best tools we have available.
I'm not suggesting that you don't have the capacity to have thought of all of this yourself already, and I'm not suggesting that being emancipated and going on welfare will absolutely not work out for this kid. But sometimes in our eagerness to do the right thing—what many of us define as the Christian thing—we forget that we may have to do the very thing we don't want to do and just let well enough alone. Life is so rarely black and white. This kid may be asking for your help, but he's only 16 and may not know exactly what it is that he's looking for. Or maybe he's already telling you what he wants, and you're not ready to hear it. Maybe he wants to be friends with you and keep things exactly as they are (even if he says differently) and still stay with his mom. Maybe HE'S trying to pull back from you a little, and you don't really want him to because you love him, want the best for him, and don't want to lose him. Maybe you're not able to judge his situation as well as you think you can because your upbringing was just very different from his. Just because you've come to understand his mother to be "fat and worthless", I guarantee you this kid's feelings for his mother are the polar opposite from yours. You obviously do not like her at all, and maybe for good reason. This kid may be angry with her, he may even call her "fat and worthless" at times, but she's his mother and he loves her. And that love trumps everything—even good sense. I suggest you take a long, objective look at what you're trying to do, honestly look at all of the options available—no matter how distasteful they are to you--and move forward from there.
Can you tell I'm a bit passionate about this subject? :)
Whatever you decide to do, I wish both you and he the best and hope things end in a peaceful place.
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Introduction: Overview of Jehovah's Witnesses 1 of 4
by kwr injwq #1: introduction: overview of jehovah's witnesses 1 of 4http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jg0kzgixrba.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deskm_dfgpi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=galgbe2oqji.
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AuroraB
They actually seem very much like JWs. In dress, in speech, and in motivations. Why go through all the trouble to create a JW-like "talk" that's completely geared towards bringing people away from their own faith? Seems exactly like what JWs do as far as I'm concerned. And quite honestly, kinda legitimizes what they teach about apostates.
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an interesting experience
by ldrnomo inover the last 7 years i have been helping a young man who is now 16 and whose mom is a witness.
his mom has three children all different fathers the young man i have been helping had a father in prison and 6 months after he was released he was shot and killed so my young man has never really had a father.
since i have stopped going to meetings about a year ago his fat ass mother who is basically worthless has resisted my help to her son.
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AuroraB
Hey LD,
I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but might be best to cut ties now and go help someone who actually wants--and will accept--help. Out of those who grow up in abuse and poverty, and lack appropriate role models for an actual successful life, it is a rare individual who pulls themselves up out of it. Add to that the JW mentality, and this kid has very little chance. Ask yourself what you are, in essence, asking him to give up (mother, family, friends...)it's a lot, even without JW thinking pounded into his head every day.
You've planted seeds already, I'm sure. Leave the kid with several ways to get in touch with you, give him some words to think on, and slowly pull back. He's old enough to figure out how to call you if he chooses to make a change, but he's got to choose it.
I've been in your situation several times. The harder you push, the more wrenches this kid's mom will throw into the machinery. While I'm sure parents all say they want their kids to do better than them in life, in reality, when they see their kids turn into someone completely different from them, it's very hard to sit back and watch. It's even harder to watch your child begin to understand you are far from perfect.
Good luck, and remember, this isn't your kid or your responsibility. You can only do the best that you can do, and then you have to move on to help another. It stinks, but it just seems to be the way of life.
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One Sentence
by joannadandy ini look back on all my posts here sometimes (ok not literally - i'm too verbose to look at all of them) and can't believe where i am today.
not that i am sitting on top of the world as the most successful person - but the small victories i have achieved over the past few years really did seem impossible to my pessimistic and damaged little mind when i first started posting here.
when i look back i have a lot of anger in my first posts - and man oh man what a rocky relationship with my parents.
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AuroraB
I am SO happy for you. Your story give me hope.
:)
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How to be invisible, Hire a JW to clean your house.
by ElectricJello ini think i threw up a little in my mouth when i got this email.. this is being emailed around the jws right now.
sure you can trust them with your money but what about your children???.
this book has been published to tell folks how to protect themselves from identity theft, among other things.
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AuroraB
I actually read this book. Yes, it does seem a bit paranoid for the average person, but it's a good primer for the naive.
I have a feeling the author is or was a Witness. In the opening chapters, he tried to explain to his readers what he defined a lie to be so that we understood he wasn't advocating dishonesty throughout the rest of his book. I don't have the book in front of me and thus can't quote verbatim, but he said that back in the--I think 1950s--he came across a definition of lying in a religious magazine that helped him reconcile his own feelings about lying with what the bible said. The definition was: "A LIE is a false statement made by one to another who is entitled to hear and know the truth and which false statement tends toward injury to the other." The style of the definition seemed like the WBTS to me, so I looked up the quote and found it on the CD (kinda freaked me out, but that's another story). When the author further wrote that he began studying with the Bible students, I figured he was a witness. He also said that he was a missionary in, I think, Spain, during a time when Catholocism was the only approved religion, thus, he had to figure out how to become very, very private to avoid punishment. This, in combination with his studies and a picture of him with his briefcase wearing a very witness-like suit, led me to believe that he was a missionary with the Witnesses for a long time. I could be wrong though, he could easily have been working with another religious group (mormons?) since pretty much everything was banned. He also has some interesting takes on weapons that no Witness would admit to openly. He has, at the very least, studied with the Witnesses. In reading his other books, I don't think I'm wrong though (does anyone other than JWs teach that Jesus is a mediator to god rather than god?)
Also, he changed his recommendation about hiring Mormons and 7th Day Adventists. He only recommends witnesses now.
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Bethel layoffs in 2008 - 300+ and counting
by sir82 infrom the mouth of one of the special pioneers assigned tour congregation:.
at least 300 have been terminated from the us bethel branch in the first month of 2008, and she expects the number to increase.
paraphrasing other comments:.
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AuroraB
I'm really curious, I read Blondie's info on tax exemptions (thank you Blondie). I'm wondering if it's really true that they don't get any settlement or salary to speak of when they are asked to leave bethel as part of the layoffs? How much money is the average bethelite able to save every month? You can't just be kicked out and nobody cares what happens to you, right? I can't wrap my head around this.
When I was laid off from my jobs, not only did I get mega-bucks when I left, they continued my salary for MONTHS, and allowed me to collect unemployment afterwards as well. I had plenty of time to find a new job without worrying--and I had actually quit right before the layoffs started. They told me to come back so I would get my layoff benefits. And this is from people who literally landed in jail 4 years later for their business practices and were fined over 600 million dollars.
This is just...wow. I seriously can't wrap my head around it. I'm thinking about all of the bethelite couples that my sister has been telling me about that are picking up and moving, "to where the need is great" or to be "special pioneers" or to serve non-english speaking congregations here in America. Three that I know of. It all seemed just out of the blue to me, but I didn't really question it.
Really, does anyone have any accurate info. on my questions above? Do these people really have no recourse if they are laid off?
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The manipulation is sickening...
by AuroraB inso, i just had another run-in with the moms.
totally unrelated to the truth, but we just disagree on so many things, and instead of being respectful and agreeing to disagree, i got the standard, "something is wrong with your thinking and you're going to have a hard time of it if you don't change.
" or, in other words, start to believe what she believes.
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AuroraB
I know it is sad here all the time, that when a JW starts to think for themself that is when their journey begins. They start to see the lies and manipulation and it affects them. They then have to make a choice. Do I leave, do I stay in and pretend it is ok, (For family etc.) or do I tell myself that there is something wrong with me and I need correction? When we take that course we cause ourselfs extreme mental and emotional anguish. I'm sure many of us have been there, and or know people that are there. How sad it is to see and experience. And trying to talk to them is futile. You tell them you are overworked and tired, they say it's because you need to do more.
I remember a conversation I had with an anointed elder about music. I am a guitarest/vocalist and I love rock (Big JW no no). He says that all music is evil other than , you guessed it, Kingdom Melodies, and some classical (provided it was not writen for the church). He said it causes a "spirit of rebelliousness". I said "Really, so if I agree with you then I would have to get rid of all my music collection. And if I disagree with you, I am proving you right by being rebellious?" His responce was "Yes". I think he was suprised that I saw through his set up so quickly but he would not back down.
It is that type of self-righteousness reasoning that is impossable to argue aginst. "It's the truth because I believe it, and if I believe it that is all the proof I need." I still say that most JW are good but missled people, and it is so sad.
I used to believe that "most" of the JWs are good but misled as well. I still tend to have a less harsh viewpoint of the group as a whole, but as I look into the training the specific groups within the congregation get, especially the elders, I'm not too sure just how "misled" they are. The elders use these manipulation tactics that are not intended to help you, but are formulated to make you feel bad, unworthy, like you're not doing enough. Even giving the elder in your own example the benefit of the doubt, his surprise that you were following along with what he was doing is enough to clue me into the fact that his motivations are not as benign as we are trained to think. If he really believed what he was saying about music and sincerely wanted to help you, he shouldn't have been surprised that you were intelligent enough to catch his point, he should have been happy that you understood and were considering his words. The more my eyes open to human behavior, the less inclined I am to give people an excuse for their poor and sometimes harmful behavior.
Just my 2 cents.
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The manipulation is sickening...
by AuroraB inso, i just had another run-in with the moms.
totally unrelated to the truth, but we just disagree on so many things, and instead of being respectful and agreeing to disagree, i got the standard, "something is wrong with your thinking and you're going to have a hard time of it if you don't change.
" or, in other words, start to believe what she believes.
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AuroraB
So, I just had another run-in with the moms. Totally unrelated to the truth, but we just disagree on so many things, and instead of being respectful and agreeing to disagree, I got the standard, "something is wrong with your thinking and you're going to have a hard time of it if you don't change." Or, in other words, start to believe what she believes. I've heard this for so long and from so many people, and BELIEVED it for so long, that the belief has left me in a very bad place in life. I'm so glad though, that I'm now able to shrug it off rather than dwell on just what is wrong with me and try to fix it to no avail.
Has anyone else had to deal with this particular issue? I mean, the thinking patterns you have to adopt in order to be a JW are really black and white..I'm right, they're all wrong, and the people who disagree with me are either evil or damaged in some way.
I feel really sorry for my moms sometimes, because I know she can't help it, but it's difficult to hold onto the compassion when she's so adamant that I'm borderline psychotic and/or doomed to failure for not agreeing with her points of view.