Hello Yerusalyim,
I'm glad that the operation is over and that the cyst was benign. Her condition has been a painful one, I am sure, and I hope the operation gets rid of the pain. Moving is tough anytime, and to deal with it and the surgery would be very frustrating I'm sure. I hope you find good renters, sometimes that's a real pain, and that you enjoy your new location. Please give your wife my regards and best wishes for a speedy recovery and a home she will love. I like South Carolina, my daughter was born in Spartanburg. I hope the local witnesses knock on your door within the next few months and can benefit from your experiences and understanding. Almost everyone on this board USED to be a witness. They can be helped and we are the best ones to help them. In the words of Kipling, "There's no discharge in the War!" Thanks for keeping us informed and for the encouragement.
Posts by Grunt
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12Update on Wife, my move, etc
by Yerusalyim inthanks for your thoughts and well wishes.
liza made it through the surgery ok. it turned into a 3 1/2 hour surgery instead of the 2 hours they predicted, oh well.
she ended up losing one of her ovaries out of the deal.
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Grunt
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Any good times?
by tattoogrl333 injust wondering if there were any positives to being a jw.
i have read most of the posts and see that a lot of people were jw for years and years and was thinking that not all that time could things have been bad?
oh and somewhere in gen. it is supposed to state that we are living in the 7th day now????
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Grunt
Contrary to the trend, we didn't drink much at all. The parties we had were more like picnics, great food and just visiting. We had a small congregation, all white, and most were related. We got a big influx of Special Pioneers from Miami and that sure changed things. We still didn't drink but as it was getting close to 75 and most of these people had sold their homes and were just trying to get the TRUTH out it was a very gung ho bunch. I'll never forget the rush we used to get when Sinutko was laying it on thick at the Assembly, "We are not backing off '75!" Not knowing it was a lie we were pretty pumped up over it. In rural Alabama it was good to meet a group like we had come up there. Nice people really, I enjoyed knowing them. Sadly, the highs are equaled by the lows. When 75 came and went, so did they. Most got divorced, most have "fallen away." Sad really. Still, feeling you were the only ones who had the message that could save all the people you were talking to and sharing this "work" with a small group that were giving it their all was refreshing. Moonies probably feel the same way about helping all of us to learn that Korea is the promised land and that Rev. Moon is correcting the errors of Christ, (he was supposed to have gotten married and had children they think) I guess even if it is a load of crap if you see it as God's Gift you can enjoy pushing it. There are repercussions though that last the rest of your life. Those families that came and then disintegrated after the failure of 75. They suffered for the lies and the egos up in Brooklyn, as did we. Our large close family has been decimated by the cult known as Jehovah's Witnesses to the point that probably half avoid the other half and that quite a few won't speak to some others, even parents and immediate family members. Not over biblical sins, but over trying to expose the cult. They could probably forgive us anything but that. Sad.
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How the Net will reduce WTS ranks
by Seeker inshe is studying with one of jws.
she has a study with her teacher, and then she comes here and talks about it.
she learns that the wts teaches one thing to new ones, but something else entirely to those who are already baptized.
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Grunt
I'm with you Nelly. When I left, way back when, I never thought of trying to get in touch with any others who had left. I couldn't go along with the chronology anymore and couldn't support the "organization" but did think they were still closer than anyone else in regards to teaching about the trinity, hell, immortality of the soul and so on. Then my cousin, a computer whiz told me about H20 and gave me the book CoC. Wow. It was a whole different outlook. I got MAD. Talking to others like myself, listening to their interaction and to their stories of why they left, gaining access to great material and proof. Believe me, it beats books all to heck and back. Suddenly you find you are not alone and that you have just cause. Suddenly you see the dirt that has been swept under the rug and the lies that have been told to hide it. No, the Internet is the best thing that has ever happened to those who oppose cults like the Jehovah's Witnesses, or oppressive governments for that matter. In the words of a country song, I Like It, I Love It, I Want Some More Of It!!! Having people like JT who have been in Bethel and served as elders and who have seen it from up and down gives an insight I would never have had on my own. I have learned a LOT on the net. I have learned a LOT from people on this very board, thanks!
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JW Pedophile Goes To Jail
by silentlambs inpoor wt after spending all that money on the pedophile's defense.
man convicted of sexual assault without church testimony.
associated press newswires .
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Grunt
I am against ecclesiastical privilege. To me, if a crime, a felony, has been committed then anyone that knows anything about it except a person's lawyer, should be required to come forth. Giving felons someone to talk to is not high on my list. I also think that those who hide the facts and cover over crimes should be treated as what they are, collaborators. God help the children.
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What first made you doubt?
by Simon inthere will be one about what your favourite color is later... .
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Grunt
Reading some old literature and realizing they had based dates on the pyramids, and a bunch of other really goofy stuff. I was at a relatives home and the room I was in had a bookcase full of the old stuff. I stayed up all night looking through it and it changed my attitude towards the society. Later, I found out that they were saying that Christ wasn't the mediator for all men, at that point I became active against them.
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WT News Release
by messenger inhow bout those jw's helping their neighbors?
of course a neighbor is only defined as a fellow jw..... i do not know if i can take much more of this hypocritical masturbation.
for immediate release .
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Grunt
Sonoita,
You are right that what they did was a good thing and that if they hadn't helped they would have been criticized. Where they err here, in my opinion, is in publishing their good works. It is best to let others praise you. It is also best to keep your good deeds secret so that your reward will come from God. If you do things seeking the praise of men then that is all you will get, or at least that is my understanding of the scriptures dealing with that. Doesn't it say not to let one hand know what the other is doing when it comes to good deeds? Like fasting, if you make a show of it then the show is all you get. Good to see you here and I hope you keep posting. -
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What I did on my vacation
by Grunt ini stepped out of the publix grocery in orlando, the heat hit me first and as my eyes adjusted to the glare of the parking lot, i saw him, white hat, white shirt, black as ethiopia with a gray mustache, seemingly untouched by the temperature wafting up off the asphalt, smiling big as he conversed with a middle aged couple by a car.
that would mean his blood pays for your sins, if now.....if.. he is your high priest... and if you are in the covenant.
i have researched the jehovah's witnesses and your church doesn't believe you are in the new covenant or that jesus is your high priest or that jesus is your mediator.
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Grunt
Hello Seven,
Great to see you also. I envy you your getting to see your friends come out. I would love to think I had helped to save someone, and their loved ones, the pain that being in this cult can cause. You and Waiting and Wendy always make me real glad to get a chance to post. My wife and I have been on the road for about three months off and on and I am looking forward to getting back home to stay and back in the groove here pretty quick. I think this board is great and has some real good discussions, but sometimes I miss the smalltown feeling we used to have. I hope old Frenchy is doing ok. Now there was a reasonable guy. Well, it is late here in Florida so I better shut it down. Thanks for always speaking and thanks to all of you for being high quality people that I am proud to call friends. After reading posts here I often think the Tower has lost its best and brightest. -
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IF YOU COULD SPEAK TO THE G.B.? WHAT?
by Winston inif you were granted to speak 100 words or less before the g.b.
and entire bethel family what would you say?
( all right maybe more than 100 words).
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Grunt
Well, a lot depends on the situation. If I were at a podium and they were at a podium, and there were women there then I think I would refute several of the major fallacies they hold. I would disprove their insulting claims to superiority over others. I would discuss how much their dishonesty and egotiscal interfering has harmed people. I would point out what a horrible thing it is to fracture a marriage, a family or even a friendship. I would discuss how ignorant it is to try and say that you have divine guidance while lying through your teeth constantly and making mistakes that cause children to die and people to hurt. I would point out that they are a discredit to christians, to religion, to our species as a whole. I would urge them to be honest and put the needs of the people who depend on them ahead of their ego and the WT publishing company's need to push magazines to maintain the status quo. I would then urge the entire bethel family to look up a few scriptures with me to point out some of the errors they have swallowed hook, line and sinker and then beg them to regain contact with all those who loved them and whom they have shunned or treated with disrespect and to apologize and beg their and god's forgivness.
If on the other hand, I were able to address the GB in a seperate meeting room I would quickly grab the door and lock it, break a table leg off the table and say, "Bend over and grab your ankles you sombitches, or I'll knock your damn heads off, IT'S TOO LATE FOR TALK. I am gonna take this raggedy old splintered table leg and do to you what you have been doing to the people I care about." That's right, JUDGEMENT DAY at last.
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What I did on my vacation
by Grunt ini stepped out of the publix grocery in orlando, the heat hit me first and as my eyes adjusted to the glare of the parking lot, i saw him, white hat, white shirt, black as ethiopia with a gray mustache, seemingly untouched by the temperature wafting up off the asphalt, smiling big as he conversed with a middle aged couple by a car.
that would mean his blood pays for your sins, if now.....if.. he is your high priest... and if you are in the covenant.
i have researched the jehovah's witnesses and your church doesn't believe you are in the new covenant or that jesus is your high priest or that jesus is your mediator.
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Grunt
It is late and we just had guests leave but I had to check the mail and wanted to try and answer you all, Y'all that is! Wendy, Waiting, it is always a pleasure to see your names on a post. I am honored to share a board with you. People like you are the ones who should be talking to these poor cult members. You know, we are all they really have to help them out. We have the goods on them and know whereof we speak, this experience came at a high price and I really do try to help them anytime I get a chance by sharing, not my story but my information.
Wendy, thanks for the hugs and my daughter is still putting on a normal look when we are thrown together as at weddings and such. She seems a little warmer and now when she writes (she asked me not to e-mail) she sometimes addresses it to my wife AND me. Sad situation. I have been pretty blunt with her and said all I know to say so for the sake of my wife and my relationship with my parents, I let the game go on.
Frank, my only point was in telling an experience I had, and hoping to encourage others to talk to any witness they see in service and try to help them out a little. As many of us as there are, we could really make a difference and at least make them have to study up and get beyond the regurgitation of the simple messages they have prepared. Most know very little about their real history and most don't understand the mediatorship and how low they are on the totem pole at all. With the ones I've talked to it is usually a shock, they usually respond with denying that Christ isn't their mediator according to the Society. The key is trying to keep them thinking about what you are saying and don't get them thinking about who you are. I feel deceptive, trying to deliberately make them think I am a pentecostal or whatever without really saying that, but otherwise everything you say doesn't count and you can't help them. I am sure you could help me out in methods, and I would appreciate any advice you could give me as I am a one man show, and just a novice at that.
Waiting, so good to see you on the board and I will double check that on the high priest tomorrow. I am pretty sure that they not only deny he is the "other sheep's" high priest but they even deny (if I remember right) that he is an "eternal" high priest even for the 144,000 which contradicts scripture also. They say all the poor old Other Sheep get is what the 144,000 "render" for them, the "overflow" of blessings that pours off the Kings and Priests. After all, Jesus is not their lawyer, but he is the 144,000's lawyer, according to them.
Jayhawk, it doesn't take courage at all, just compassion and a lot of patience. You have to hope for the delayed response that you won't get to see. You have the information, and they NEED to hear it.
OutnFree, I hope you do talk to them. Like I said the only hard part is keeping them from asking if you are an ex-witness, you have to be careful to avoid catch phrases that only witnesses use. I wish you well. If the high quality people on this board were out in front of the car groups it would make for a morning they could all go back and talk about. I like to take the conversational lead and ask them the questions, it humbles them some. I see their two class christianity and contradiction of the whole premise of the new covenant as ONE of their many weak points and it is one most don't understand well and you can get them to realize they have views at odds with the organization over. Ah well, I have to go to bed. Thank all of you (allayall) for responding. -
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What I did on my vacation
by Grunt ini stepped out of the publix grocery in orlando, the heat hit me first and as my eyes adjusted to the glare of the parking lot, i saw him, white hat, white shirt, black as ethiopia with a gray mustache, seemingly untouched by the temperature wafting up off the asphalt, smiling big as he conversed with a middle aged couple by a car.
that would mean his blood pays for your sins, if now.....if.. he is your high priest... and if you are in the covenant.
i have researched the jehovah's witnesses and your church doesn't believe you are in the new covenant or that jesus is your high priest or that jesus is your mediator.
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Grunt
I stepped out of the Publix Grocery in Orlando, the heat hit me first and as my eyes adjusted to the glare of the parking lot, I saw him, white hat, white shirt, black as Ethiopia with a gray mustache, seemingly untouched by the temperature wafting up off the asphalt, smiling big as he conversed with a middle aged couple by a car. Doing streetwork and enjoying it. Thank you God. I love to find a Witness. I look for them all the time and despite all the hours they turn in I have a hard time catching them. I guess that's because I am usually looking in a strange city and am always trying to get somewhere. Still sometimes I tell my wife, "This neighborhood, I just know I could find some on a pretty morning in this neighborhood. I will just take a little while but I want to drive through and check it out." Usually nothing. But not today. Today, when I am not even looking, here one is like a gift! He looks so confident and happy, looks to be in his late fifties, maybe an elder! I've got one. Wouldn't you know I am under a little time pressure. I am on vacation and my wife and I are on the way to my son's place. She wanted to stop and get some odds and ends. Even if it makes us late, I will take some time for this.
I walk up quietly, nod and stop to listen, they all turn and look at me expectantly. I say, "Don't mean to be rude, but if you are having a bible conversation, just thought I would listen in, especially if you are a Jehovah's Witness, which you seem to be. Don't let me slow you down, just go on with what you're talking about, I can wait." The couple seems a little taken aback, but he eats it up, he says with a grin "We all are." echoed by the other two, "Yes, we are all Jehovah's Witnesses." Three when I only hoped for one, I love it. He hands me a tract, on the front it has a picture of a little girl with a basket of flowers in front of a tombstone, it says beneath the picture, "What Hope for dead loved ones?" He asks me, "What hope do you have for your loved ones?" All fine and good but not what I want to talk about. I can see my wife standing in the front of the store now, looking at me with a frown. She knows what is going on, and knows it might be a while, it is hot and we do need to go. "Not what I want to talk about, friend, I was just wondering if you are in the New Covenant?" I know this will probably make him think I am a Pentecostal or something. I should have asked, "Have you been born again?" but just couldn't go quite that far. I DON'T want him to wonder if I am an ex-witness, apostate to him, if he thinks that,... then nothing I say will matter. He grins like a shark in a school of fish, says "Well, the old law was nailed to the torture stake with Jesus and it had already said back here in the Old Testament that there was gonna be a new covenant.." as he says this he is thumbing through the old testament but not finding what he is looking for. I am in a hurry so I butt in and say "It is at Jeremiah 31:31, quoted again in Hebrews word for word and it does say there will be a new covenant, a covenant of the heart that you don't have to teach your fellow man, my question was..... are you, yourself, in it?" He stops a second, me quoting the scripture throws him a little and he eyes me and gets a little cagey, "Well, now, what uh, what would you say the criteria for that would be???" He thinks he has me pegged as a backwoods, redneck, probably some kind of preacher, well, he is in the ball park. I am backwoods, was raised a redneck and I sure want to "preach" to him and his friends. Still, I don't have enough time to really play this game so I cut to the chase, not wanting to sound anything like a witness, "Well,... I'd say if you eat the Bread... and Drink the Wine at the Passover, The Lord's Supper..you know?...., then you are in the New Covenant, didn't Christ say when he had the last Passover, everywhere it quotes him....the Gospels, even Corinthians,.... "This is my blood, OF THE COVENANT? That would mean his blood pays for your sins, if now.....if.. he is your high priest... and IF you are in the covenant." He says, "I am then." I am surprised, he is lying and knows it.....I guess, hmmmm...this forces my hand a little. I say, "You eat the bread and drink the wine at the Lord's Evening Meal?" He says, "Well, no, if that is the criteria, no, I don't. But, the ransom sacrifice of Jesus pays for my sins and I am in the Covenant." Too much, I have to break cover a little. "No you are not. Not according to what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe. Do you know what the Jehovah's Witnesses believe?" Now he is the one who is surprised, "Oh, YOU gonna tell ME!!! WHAT I BELIEVE???" We are starting to get a little loud so I say low and slow, "Yep. I sure will. See...I know all about you. I have researched the Jehovah's Witnesses and your church doesn't believe you are in the New Covenant or that Jesus is your High Priest or that Jesus is your Mediator. All of Y'all are the same 'cause you think the Covenant is a covenant for a kingdom (the woman nods and says "It was a covenant for a kingdom.") and that only a hundred and forty four thousand kings and priests are gonna be in it and.....NONE of y'all eat the Bread or drink the Wine, now do you? Because you think you are gonna live on the earth. So none of y'all are in The Covenant. Course I think y'all are wrong and that all of you Should be in it because it says in Ephesians, "One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism!" I do say y'all all the time, but as this guy had such good diction and was using proper English, I hoped that allowing free rein to my natural speech would distance me from the Boys in Brooklyn and make me seem less of a threat due to my being a hillbilly, also calling their group a church might help. In addition to that being an accurate scripture it is also one frequently quoted by fundamentalists. I thought that what I said about the mediatorship would stir the ant bed up pretty good as somehow most witnesses haven't let that sink in and I hoped it would make them think a little in spite of themselves. Everything had been so nice and polite up till then. At this all three began to clamor, the woman said, "That's not true, they would never say that! because that is not true! and we all pray through Jesus' name when we pray!" Her husband (I guess) says," There's a verse that says he IS the mediator between God and all men!" I told him it was 1 Tim. 2:5-6, the older guy is looking up Revelation to prove that it was a covenant with only 144,000 and starts telling me the names of the tribes. He (the older black man) says, "I have distributed literature that taught Jesus is the Mediator for all men!" I say, "Nope. They say that is just for the 144,000." Things are cooking. I tell the older guy, "The number 144,000 is symbolic, those aren't the twelve tribes of Israel, you are listing Joseph's sons also and it is all symbolic anyway don't you think? It also says there in Revelation that they weren't defiled by women, are you saying that is literal too?" The old guy says "No, some of the anointed ARE WOMEN so that has to be symbolic!" I say, "So everything is symbolic except the number, huh?" The old guy says "No, but that number is literal." The woman is still telling me that the society has always taught that Jesus is the Mediator, the other guy is just being quite and listening. Probably doesn't like how loud the conversation got for a minute or two. Anyway, it is time to go, my poor wife is eager to leave and has been real patient. She is standing in the shade out in front of the store, I motion for her to come on out and then fire my parting shot, "Look, you can believe it or not, it is up to you. I think you are right in what you think now. I hope you keep believing that Jesus is the Mediator for all men no matter what anyone says, and that is definitely what the scripture says, but not what your religion teaches. I've got to go as my I've made my wife wait long enough in this heat, last thing I want to ask you is.. If I am right, and you will find I am right on this, that they teach he is not your mediator or your high priest and that you are not under the blood of the covenant (they all try to talk at once here) IF I AM RIGHT AND THEY DO TEACH IT, .....WHAT WILL YOU DO??? What will you do? Thanks for talking to me, maybe I'll see y'all around, I hope so." I turn to walk away, the older man is saying, "Hey, she can wait some! I gave you my time out here! You can stay here and talk a little longer!" I was tempted to point out that he was counting time and I wasn't but that would be too much. The woman is looking really troubled. I hope because she knows the ring of truth when she hears it. I open the door for my wife who is looking a little irritated but not saying anything. As we drive away I say, "Baby, this was the most important thing I will do today. Maybe, just maybe when they check it out and see I was telling the truth, they will remember what they said when they were arguing that the society would never teach that." We saw our son that day, the next day on over to Redington Beach, beautiful waves from a storm in the Gulf, live music, great seafood, even had a crab and creamcheese omelet for breakfast this morning at a place called Kenny's Korner, but I still keep thinking back to the bit of time in the parking lot at Publix. That woman, she was so adamant that they would never teach that, as it was against what the bible said. I think she will check, and when she checks...... Maybe, just maybe.