I predict that it will be a big let down. They will probably encourage them to get out in service more. Having been a party to several of these world shaking messages that were going to be put out and set the earth on its ear only to find them bland as oatmeal, I don't expect much.
Posts by Grunt
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9PROPHETS: go on the record/JW secret meeting
by lisaBObeesa inall prophets: here is your chance to go on the record and tell us all what you think this special, jw-only meeting in sept is going to be about.
then, after the fact, when we know what it was about, you will get all the glory due a true prophet.
all those who were wrong, well, you will taunted and laughed at by the other prophets.
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Beware of those adjectives!
by ozziepost indid you realise that joe ratherflawed spoke in a "fatherly tone"?
well, that's what the july 15 issue of the watchtower says.. in a section obviously intended to boost the reputation of jfr in the minds of modern-day witnesses, the skilful use of adjectives conjures up a picture of kind benevolence.. in just 4 paragraphs, expressions used are "largest convention", "listened intently", "fatherly tone", "children rose as one body", "burst of applause", "prolonged applause", "moving talk", "long line", "gift copy", "moved the audience to tears", "memorable assembly".. now try reading these four paragraphs without the adjectives.
they weren't essential to the story but they sure help to tug at the heartstrings.. it reminds me of the adulation of despots like mao tse tung and stalin who were written about during their regimes in similar language to this article.. note this quote in this section from an "eyewitness": "only a heart of stone would not be moved at the spectacle of youth [showing] complete trust and faith in their god, jehovah".
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Grunt
Ozzie,
As has been pointed out so many times, any group that is as ashamed of their history as the Tower is should just leave it alone instead of trying to embellish or color it. It always amazes me how easily Witnesses brush off their past and don't consider any writings more than a few years old as relevant to them, "Oh, well, that was before we came to a more accurate understanding. You know the apostles thought Jesus was going to defeat the Romans also." Talking to Witnesses involves dealing with so many fallacies that it becomes like an English class. Anyway, Rutherford sounds like he was a candidate for High Prince of Shittem to me. I would hate to have had him for a father. I don't know how his son turned out, but he deserves a lot of slack considering his environment. How so many people got tricked by such a con artist such as Rutherford was, is beyond me. Of course having been a member of the cult, I guess I have little room to talk. Strange that you join due to family bonds and by joining put that same relationship at risk. At least I never shunned anyone, I just couldn't do it. I'll even speak to Fred. Hi Fred. Ozzie, I enjoy your posts. -
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The Amazing Chasm!
by metatron inas i've said before, the present day condition of the.
organization is truly amazing!
- and the most astounding .
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Grunt
That would work. Kind of like American Catholics and birth control. "If my kid needs blood, he's getting it." or "Whether I vote or not is MY business." Or "Shun, shun who??? Shun YOU if you don't keep your nose out of my family business." Yeah, I could go with that. Soon they could be meeting in old filling stations like the fundamentalist snake handlers back home.
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"Waiting on Jehovah"
by jst2laws inmy friends,.
i just finished a holiday week-end with old friends in the organization.
all they knew when they came was that i had recently resigned as a elder.
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Grunt
Hello jst2laws,
I am sure you weighed everything carefully before taking the step and that you are aware of how much stress lies ahead. I wish you well and hope that your estimates on those you care about coming out with you are accurate. Either way, I wish you all the best and commend you for your courage and integrity. -
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The Amazing Chasm!
by metatron inas i've said before, the present day condition of the.
organization is truly amazing!
- and the most astounding .
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Grunt
Good post, Metatron, and I couldn't agree more. Judging by the numbers of kids leaving as quoted in another post, the rubber band has snapped for the very young and they are voting with their feet at the first opportunity. I will be glad when whole house of cards comes down.
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I Said Goodbye
by Farkel inmy father was rushed by ambulance from his rest home to st. marks hospital in salt lake city, utah friday, but i only just heard about it.
i received a call from the floor nurse and she told me he is not expected to live.
his lungs are filled fill up with fluid and are continuing to fill u with more fluid: he has pneumonia.
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Grunt
Dear Farkel,
I am so sorry for your father's situation and for you and your mother's pain. I am glad that you were able to talk to him and to be honest with him, glad that you are aware of all he did for you and what a good man he had to have been to shoulder your mom's criticism and still be there for her with her problems when she needed him. That takes a lot of character. As I read some of the other posts on here my heart breaks for them and I think you were very fortunate. I also think you were a good son. If I were your dad, what you said would have been a great comfort to me. I'm sure it was to him. When you and I face our own departure, I hope our children can say that we taught them a lot, that in their eyes we are great men, and that they will always love us. I would say your dad is a roaring success and that his life counted and was a force for good. I hope that as your mom realizes just what she lost that her depression doesn't become unbearable. I know you will be there for her, just like he was. I wish you and your family all the best and will quote one of my favorite poems if you don't mind. It is by Tennyson and was about the death of a good friend.Oh, yet we trust that somehow good
Will be the final end of ill,
To pangs of nature, sins of will,
Defects of doubt, and taints of blood;
That nothing walks with aimless feet;
That not one life shall be destroy'd,
Or cast as rubbish to the void,
When God hath made the pile complete;That not a worm is cloven in vain;
That not a moth with vain desire
Is shrivell'd in a fruitless fire,
Or but subserves another's gain.Behold, we know not anything;
I can but trust that good shall fall
At last--far off--at last, to all,
And every winter change to spring.So runs my dream: but what am I?
An infant crying in the night:
An infant crying for the light:
And with no language but a cry.Your friend,
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Erica's 98 Sentencing Hearing
by silentlambs inbelow are listed quotes form the 1998 sentencing hearing for manuel beliz, the man who molested erica.. do you see any similarity between this and the berry sentencing?
why are jehovahs witnesses so keen to have convicted child molesters keep their children?
also unique in this hearing brother beliz asks to speak.
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Grunt
"Therefore, it's a jw truth based on assumption." I think you hit the nail on the head again, Waiting. So many, many JW Truth's have been only their egotistical assumptions that as God's Favored they MUST be right. To have these fools volunteering to have this child molester and the other one on the other coast, watch their children, well, I can only hope it is empty posturing and that in fact they would flee before allowing this pervert near their children. His brother seems to come closest to facing the facts. I feel for him and hope none of his kids were ever left alone with this guy.
I hope Erica and the others are now able to put this as far behind them as it is possible to do. I also hope the OTHER elder that molested children in this case is also prosecuted and put in jail. You know, in a way this reminds me of the Israelites offering their kids to idols in Canaan. It seems to show support or get peer/cult approval too many of these parents like those, are willing to put their kids on the altar. -
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Food at Proper Time:Insider's Insight from Barbara
by Maximus inbarbara anderson's attention was called to the thread about the differences in policy of great britain and the us regarding child abuse; as you know she has championed a change in that policy.
another post caught her eye, and she expressed the desire to share some thoughts with you.
i'm delighted to share her first post, which i know you will find riveting.
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Grunt
Proplog2,
"THEY" were never your tribe or mine. We just thought they were. They (the leaders in the cult) always saw you and me and the other injun's as burden bearers for the B'wana. They were full of themselves and some other stuff I could mention but won't. An exception to this rule was Ray Franz. I don't approve of just the way he handled everything, but doubt that you or I could have done any better. To me he kind of left the spanish guy, his friend in New York out on a limb when the inquisition began. I think he was wrong to defend the party line in Africa about the mediatorship when he thought it was wrong. Still, what he did changed my life and many, many others. Having the intelligence and the power to expose the cult known as Jehovah's Witnesses and doing it, puts him way up on my list. If I ever had a chance I would shake his hand and say thanks. I hope he makes a million on his books though I imagine the best they will do is fill in for a retirement he never accumulated. I left alone. His book and the internet made me feel justified and helped me to KNOW I had made the right decision. Now every chance I get (I was out today) I seek out Jehovah's Witnesses and try to engage them in conversations that will give them a clue as to just what the hell they really believe and are involved in. Ray Franz did a good thing and did it with the right touch to get the maximum effect from it. If the Tower had it to do again, they would buy him a house in Gadsden and pay him enough so that writing a book just wouldn't be worth the effort. If they'd had a brain among them they would have allowed him to help shape them into a real religion instead of a cult.
I am glad they were idiots.You said:
"But, JW's are still my tribe and I feel they are still a horse worth betting on."
They are not horses, they are Jack Asses. They will lose every race and stubbornly refuse to admit it when they do. Get close and they will kick your face in through shunning. Never bet on a Jack Ass in a horse race. You got out. You were right to get out. Don't cling to a false illusion about this cult. The Moonies and Garbage Eaters have unity too, it is a sign of a cult. Goosestepping away from families while screaming "Heil Jehovah" is a pretty good indicator also.
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MAXIMUS - Don't Ever leave
by hawkaw inmax,.
i just read another thread where someone took a "shot" at you with the f__k word etc.. go hug your wife and remember what happens in october with your family.. you may meet 10 idiots on this board but i assure you, you will help save at least one life and another one's freedom.. hawk
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Grunt
Wasasister,
I am sorry for the pain you have had to endure. I am glad that you stayed as I have enjoyed your posts. I hope your situation is better now and that your golden motives are rewarded with the happiness you deserve. To me you just have to overlook some of the people who are boors. No doubt their circumstances have given birth to their problems so I try to feel a little compassion for them and to ignore as much as I can. Once again, I am glad you are here and I enjoy reading what you have to say.Max, I said what I have to say to you and others like you in my post to the Insiders. Thanks. Thanks a lot. I appreciate not only your knowledge and information but your attitude.
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To the Insiders
by Grunt injust on a personal note i would like to thank anyone and everyone that can tell me anything to expose the jehovah's witnesses for the cult that they are.
i especially appreciate information from any who have dedicated enough years to gain responsibility and inside information within the cult.
i appreciate it because no doubt with the investment of so much and discovery of the truth, comes much grief and regret.
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Grunt
Just on a personal note I would like to thank anyone and everyone that can tell me anything to expose the Jehovah's Witnesses for the cult that they are. I especially appreciate information from any who have dedicated enough years to gain responsibility and inside information within the cult. I appreciate it because no doubt with the investment of so much and discovery of the truth, comes much grief and regret. I profit from your time in, what you lost, and I thank you for sharing information bought with a coin so precious. If anyone is to bring down this cult it will be those with information on just what kind of dirty and illegal tricks have been pulled and are being pulled and just who could be held liable and how. It has been my experience that as soon as individuals stand to lose money or face jail time they quickly distance themselves from the the others in trouble and start taking care of their own problems and making deals. I would love nothing more than to see the individuals on the GB held liable and sued as well as the corp. I believe the individuals would sing like the Mormon Choir if they were facing jail time for themselves. I do believe there are many at the top who should be in prison. This cult is guilty of so many serious crimes.
To me money would not be enough, they should do time for the lives lost over their lies and egos. It will be people of conscience like Barbara, and Silent Lambs who connect the dots if and when they are connected. Ray Franz did more with his books than any other individual has done to expose this cult, and I will always owe him a debt of gratitude. Even though I left before he did, also as a matter of conscience, it meant little to any other than my family. I didn't know enough, couldn't do enough to effect any change. What those of you who do know are doing is very important to so many. Please continue.
As for revealing information, please don't if it harms anyone. On this board most of us use handles that are not our real names to conceal our identity. I try never to say anything here that could cost me my parents. I have given details about my daughter and how I lost her to the cult, that would identify me and that worried me after I posted it. Knowing her to be a Jehovah's Witness zealot I know she would never read on this board, but I wouldn't be surprised if some who know her do. I still have my parents, so far. I have no fear of the cult, their only power is their hostages. I would love to somehow get to the people in power who cause so much pain and their GB conference table and read them some of the cases of children's deaths, of divorces, of boys sent to prison and sodomized, of wives and children abused and their abuse covered over.... just before they were shackled and led away.
I do however fear having my mom and dad die not speaking to me. I fear their needing help and refusing it from me, or needing to live with me and refusing. I fear their shunning, not as much for what it would do to me (though it would be awful) as much as what it would do to them. So I use a handle that reflects a part of my life without identifying me. As do most of you. Do any of you doubt that if we were identified we wouldn't lose our families, or at least what we have left of our families? I didn't think so. No vets do anyway.
We have been to the wars. We have a common enemy. That enemy, in my opinion, is all cults, but in particular for me it is the cult that has cost me time out of my life, had me alienate good friends, and lose immediate family. That cult is of course Jehovah's Witnesses. It continues to deceive the uninformed, to persecute those who would dissent, and to deny any wrong doing. It continues to allow children to die and to be sexually abused, to encourage family ties to be sundered, marriages dissolved, and custody of innocent children from these shattered families to be fought for under false pretenses. It has lied to countries as well as individuals. Depression, suicide and divorce follow where it goes and it paints it all in rainbow colors of denial. It shrugs off all responsibility and has a company policy that telling a lie to protect the cult is not wrong, in fact telling the truth is casting their pearls before swine. That is the nature and identity of our enemy and they are rampant as I speak.