Posts by gumby

13

Good by everyone

by Tammie in

jw
friends

i want to tell every one here good by.

i have enjoyed reading your comments.

i am leaving the internet for a while.

gumby

Bye tammie...Hey! Where's my big ole goodbye kiss?

14

Simply Amazing's story up in entirety

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

many of you read parts of simply amazing's story of life in the watchtower and his encounters with other elders, bethelites and more.

now the entire story is online at:.

http://www.exjws.net/pioneers/partintro.htm.

I think the personal stories are probably the most powerful influence in helping people to see the truth. Doctrinal analysis and discussion confirms doubts but the life stories make you question things as people can really identify with them.

Well said Simon!

On an earlier thread that discussed how many are out because of this site and others, it was mentioned that stories of others help people see the light.

Fredhall

Hey Dogpatch

Fred.....how long does it take you to think of these meaningful posts of yours? Damn your brilliant!

2

ME'NE, ME'NE, TE'KEL and PAR'SIN

by Siddhashunyata in

jw
friends

the mighty hand of technology has written the above words on the walls of the wtbts and on every kingdom hall across the world.

there is a war taking place but it is not being fought by "apostates", which term is a clever ploy by the wtbs to claim the "moral highground".

this war is about "social injustice ", abuse of human and civil rights, repression of conscience .this war is not about doctrine or belief.

gumby

in the past, all voices of opposition were scattered or silenced through the internal organs of the WT/Awake magazines and various forms of congregational and bureaucratic intimidation and coercion.

Gee! When did they quit doing this?

46

What Am I thinking?????

by butalbee in

with all the recent hog wash going on in my life, i can't believe i am even entertaining this notion.

everybody on this board knows how i feel about this path, these beliefs, and here i am thinking, pondering wondering, maybe jehovahs witnesses do have something to offer me, maybe i need their 'close nit' love inside their congregations?

maybe i could see the truth, if i only opened my eyes to it and tried to accept it???

gumby

What damage could it really do?

The fact that you are considering going back is PROOF they have already damaged you!

Fear and intimidation. Cyg is going thru the same crap.
"If I come back....I'll have all the love from family and friends again"............what a pisspoor reason!

You'd better think REAL HARD about this one.

52

WANTING to Believe in God

by dobby in

jw
friends

has anyone had this experience?.

after letting go of my beliefs as a jw, i felt the only alternative was to be atheist.

or maybe it is just logical to there is no god when i am only listening to my mind and not my heart.

gumby

gsx: One of the best things about being a non JW is that you are free to make an informed choice.

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

37

Were any divorced over oral sex?

by gumby in

let me explain:.

in times past, the society's policy was that a witness mate could divorce their mate who demanded or had them perform oral sex and persisted with their views.. later the policy was revised to mean a witness mate could divorce their mate who had oral sex with someone.....outside of the marriage.. are there any here who had this experience with the old arrangement, or do you know of any cases in which this happened?.

my reason for asking is, i wonder how many lives were ruined by another wt blunder.

gumby

WP:..(Muslims)I have heard that they are waiting for their reward in heaven of 40 vestal virgins...

How can I become a baptised Muslim in good standing?

52

WANTING to Believe in God

by dobby in

jw
friends

has anyone had this experience?.

after letting go of my beliefs as a jw, i felt the only alternative was to be atheist.

or maybe it is just logical to there is no god when i am only listening to my mind and not my heart.

gumby

Hi dobby. You are not alone in what to believe in my friend.
This is a long process depending on how long you were involved with the witnesess, and how deeply rooted you were.

As you become familiar with this board you will see many directions ones have turned.

Here is a site that may help and you may want to search other sites that show the flip side.

http://www.carm.net/atheism.htm

This, it seems, is a fair approach to a christian view of Atheism

14

so you want to knock down the wt

by one in

jw
friends

you a right to start a crusade and the right to get a life and still feel free to write and talk as you please specially if the writting and talking is going to help someone.

then a sucker is born and the cycle start all over.. being realistic the usa has been trying to nock down a regime in cuba for half a decade... besides writting and talking against it.

anyway what goes up must come down, but for more than a millenium this law hasn't aplied to some churches, catholic.. why do i care about this anyway?.

gumby

Alamb.......your a lamb!
That was a really sweet post and an encouraging one that adds evidence the net is getting people out.

16

Anyone from metro Phoenix area?

by stocwach in

specifically the old papago park congregation?

gumby

Does Wickenburg count?

I used to assign talks and probably dealt with that congregation if it was in our circuit, but I can't remember.

10

Mistakes made when dialoguing with Atheists

by gumby in

well, to be fair, an atheist can no more prove there is no god than he can prove that there isn't an ice-cream factory on jupiter.

in fact, it isn't even a good request.

it doesn't mean you are wrong.

gumby

I thought this was a GOOD read! http://www.carm.net/atheism.htm

Mistake Christians make when dialoguing
with Atheists

Most Christians mean well when they defend their faith. But, too often, many make fundamental errors when dialoguing with atheists. We need to make as few errors as possible, not simple to win an argument, but to help the atheist come to a saving relationship with the Lord Jesus.
Following are common mistakes made by theists when dialoguing with atheists.

Asking an atheist to prove there is no God
Sometimes Christians will attempt to dismantle an atheist argument by demanding that the atheist prove there is no God. Well, to be fair, an atheist can no more prove there is no God than he can prove that there isn't an ice-cream factory on Jupiter. The problem does not lie with the atheist, but with the theist who demands such an impossible and illogical request. Generally, you do not try to prove a negative. If I asked you to prove there wasn't an ice-cream factory on Jupiter, could you do it? Of course not. It isn't a fair request. In fact, it isn't even a good request. Let's think about this idea of proving there is no God.
First of all, how could an atheist prove there is no God? Can he know all things to know there is no God? Well, of course not. If he knew all things, he'd be God. Can he answer every bit of evidence raised in support of theism? Again no. He is not omniscient. There is simply too much information in the world for one person to know.
Again, in argumentation you don't try to prove a negative. It’s the same thing as making something up and then asking a person to prove it doesn't exist -- like an ice-cream factory on Jupiter.

Labeling Atheists
Some Christians have labeled atheists as evil, stupid, devil-worshippers, or morally void. Though there may be some atheists who fit these categories (as would many in the general population), atheists are not evil, stupid, devil-worshipping, degenerates with no morals. Many of them are fine citizens, honest, caring, loving, and patient. For a Christian, or anyone, to make a blanket statement about atheists in a derogatory manner is wrong. It is the same thing atheists sometimes do when they accuse Christians of being irrational, psychotic, or stupid. Such accusations have no place on either side of the argument of truth.
Generally, atheists are not stupid. Many of them have thought through their position over a long period of time. Some were raised in religious homes, have seen what religion has to offer, and have rejected it. Of course, I think that atheists have drawn incorrect conclusions about God, but it doesn't mean they are dumb. Some atheists have presented very cogent arguments against the existence of God -- which need to be addressed -- and rest their eternity on their arguments.
So, just because someone believes in God and encounters someone who doesn't, that does not mean that either side is stupid. Labeling and name-calling have no place in the discussion.

Ignoring Atheists' Questions
If you were standing on a railroad track and a train was heading your way, closing your eyes and ignoring the locomotive will not make it go away. If an atheist asks a question and you ignore it repeatedly, it would be fair for him to conclude you were incapable of answering the objection. Of course, this does not mean you have to always answer everything because dialogue flows both ways. But, it is important that you face issues. If you don't have an answer, admit it. That's okay. It doesn't mean you are wrong. It means you don't have an answer. Go study and get an answer and get back to him.

Stating that Atheism is a religion
Atheists will repeatedly tell you that they are not in a religion. A religion almost always is defined to include belief in a deity of some sort. Atheism is non-belief in a deity. It isn't necessarily a "belief that there is no God," but is "not believing either way."
To label an atheist as a religious person is to put up a roadblock to any effective communication. It would be like someone saying to a Christian, "You believe in a mean, tyrannical being who likes to torture people." The Christian would simply role his eyes and think that the person doesn't know what he's talking about. So, how much effective conversation could there be in either instance? Not much.

Stating unsupportable facts
No one has all documentation for everything they say. It is not reasonable to require proof from an atheist on everything said. Nevertheless, if you are going to state a fact or two, it is good to have the documentation at the tip of your tongue -- at least occasionally. It adds an air of credibility to your argument. Of course, you don't have to document everything, but if you have some illustrious fact to use, try and have it documented.

Never admitting when you are wrong
Pride is a harmful thing. It caused the fall. It ruins marriages. It leads to anger and self-righteousness. It has no place in the Christian's life. Never admitting you are wrong is being prideful. If an atheist, or anyone, proves you wrong in something, be kind and courteous. Admit you made a mistake and go on. Everyone makes mistakes, even atheists. There is nothing wrong with admitting an error. It no more proves you are wrong about Christianity than being wrong about the color of a boat means boats don't exist. But, if you never admit when you are wrong, you will not be able to convince anyone in a discussion of your position. You will simply loose the respect of the one with whom you are debating.

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