wobble

Joined

• started 129 topics
• posted 5,719 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by wobble

• 
  17

  Would Christianity have survived if......

  by wobble in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  ...........the roman empire had not adopted it ?

  they were far from being in the majority at the time,although growth had taken place over a large area, but within that area they were still a minority religion, often an underground one.. so hypothetically, would it just have withered and died, have torn itself to shreds with all the schisms and sects ?.

  i think that without the power of rome it would have done just that, perhaps the coptic church may have survived until the 21st century and perhaps the eastern churches, but the western ?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  wobble

  ...........the Roman Empire had not adopted it ? They were far from being in the majority at the time,although growth had taken place over a large area, but within that area they were still a minority religion, often an underground one.

  So hypothetically, would it just have withered and died, have torn itself to shreds with all the schisms and sects ?

  I think that without the power of Rome it would have done just that, perhaps the Coptic church may have survived until the 21st Century and perhaps the eastern Churches, but the Western ? I doubt it, and we would have ben saved from about 2000 sects, and all been happy tree-hugging Druids !
• 
  23

  The new writing department of the WTBTS

  by Aussie Oz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there is a new writing department in wt land.. us.. think about it, the watchtower/jehovah's witnesses are a reactive 'religion', not a proactive one.. that means of course that they react and modify doctrine, rules and direction in response to what ever may be effecting them.

  probably the last time they were proactive was the 40s and 50s but these days its all about preservation rather than growth.. i am sure that the actual writing department have eyes and ears out in 'aposta land'.

  after all, who discuss and disect the books, magazines and letters more than we do?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  wobble

  Exactly Punky, it is just possible that the old farts of the G B are totally deluded, but these writing boys are not, as evidenced by what they write and the devious methods they use.

  What kind of person does that ? A Goebbels who relishes the power of disseminating lies and propaganda and experiences an orgasmic reaction when 7 million people run their lives by it.

  Lying, hypocritical wankers, to be polite about the writing guys.
• 
  2

  mental disease?

  by mamochan13 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  just sorting this concept out.

  so apparently i have a mental disease because i no longer believe jw propaganda.

  hmm.

  1. 
  2. 
• 

  wobble

  Sorry to hear about the terrible way you have been treated, there simply is no excuse for that inhuman way of acting. Any normal family tells the other members, and invites them to attend, or if as close as you, to be involved heavily.

  They are mentally diseased, they caught it from the WT.
• 
  6

  Media notification?

  by mauiboy in

  1. watchtower
  2. child-abuse

  i would love to see the wtb&ts/ wwc case in victoria austrailia come to national or even international media attention.

  i plan on finding as many media sites 'contact us' as i can in the next few days.

  if enough of us email/phone/written bltz hit the tv and newspaper media asking for coverage of the story as it unfolds in the coming months, maybe someone will pick it up... anyone up for sending some emails?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  wobble

  Please do not jump the gun. The media has a very short attention span, and very rarely do they return to a story, if they ran something at this early stage, when the case finally comes to Court and the real meat of it becomes apparent , they will not want to know.

  WE WILL ONLY HAVE ONE CHANCE AT THIS. For goodness sake, let us show our thanks to Steven Unthank by making a good job of it.

  Let's wait until it is resolved, mid November I believe, not long. (Although it could go further)
• 
  21

  If Jerusalem destruction was truly significant- Why would an almighty God allow so much confusion regarding the date?

  by mankkeli in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was just thinking that if truly the destruction of jerusalem would have any significance today, why should there be so much confusion surrounding its date and discrepancies regarding the names of those neo-babylonian kings.. .

  if truly that event was significant, why should it be so difficult for the almighty god to pen down the exact date in the bible and shield us from unnecessary debates, reliance on scholars and opaque explanations from religions with ulterior motives?.

  i cant comprehend any reason to justify the silence from god on this date.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  wobble

  But we do have the evidence to incontrovertably prove the 587/6 date Lars ,why ,in the face of all this, do you try to introduce another date as ludicrous as the WT's 607BCE, is it because you too are an end-times prophet ?

  If so, take a good look at the company you are keepng, from Old Mother Shipton, through Miller, Russell and all the way to Camping they have all proven to be deluded.
• 
  25

  Liberal Christians explain how you view 2 Timothy 3:16, 17

  by ShadesofGrey in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  so the christian (baptist) that i study with says that there are things in the bible that are useful for learning from history, but if god didn't say it (this is what the sovereign lord jehovah has said, or if jesus actually said it, etc.

  ) then it isn't something that god is saying, so that helps us understand it?.

  i know i need to say more in my question, but hopefully i will learn from your responses to the title.. .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  wobble

  The writer of Timothy , whoever he was, purports to be Paul, so the words would mean what the writer would see as Paul's view. It is more than likely that Paul, and the writer of Timothy too, viewed "scripture" very differently from the modern day literalists. ( a less than 2 centuries old phenomenon really, and still far from universal)

  The method common among Rabbinical schools of the time was to re-tell the stories of scripture, often changing many details, so that the stories had an impact on thinking and action in their day and circumstances. They did not view them as literal truth to be held sacrosanct as to every detail, but as a basis for "teaching and setting things straight".

  The God -Breathed bit did not make them view the Bible as the WT and other Fundies do.

  Leolaia has an excellent thread on the Midrash method.
• 
  45

  How to convince someone to question the authority of the WT

  by LanaMich19 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have someone in my family that is a jw and she has engaged me in conversation.

  for the record, i consider myself an evangelical christian.

  after some debate and research, i backed out of a verse by verse debate and switched the convo to get on some common ground, asking if she believe the bible was the inspired word of god.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  wobble

  The tipping point for every individual is different, and you will not know what it was until it has had its effect and she has left, and she then tells you.

  All you can do is keep adding to her Cognitive Dissonance, it is not a comfortable mental state, so keep at it, show the logical fallacies for what they are, show the lies up too, it will work in the end, like water dripping on a stone.

  You can return to the WT's status in her belief system, she does beleive they expound truth , ask her when that started ? they have rejected their own "truth" so many times over the years, when did it become wholly "the truth" ? is it now? if not, what does she struggle with ?
• 
  2

  Does the congo with the thickest envelope get all the circuit assembly talks?

  by Alfred in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  ok... i might be speculating here but i just have this sudden need to get this purged from my system once and for all.... it always seemed to me that the congo that handed over the thickest envelope to the co at the end of his visit got all the circuit assembly parts... this is just my personal observation from having been in 4 different districts for over 3 decades.. of course, i could be completely wrong about this but i rarely noticed elders from the poorer congos in the district giving talks at any assembly i've ever attended, while the elders from the more affluent congos in the district seemed to get all the talks, simposiums, dramas, everything.... in fact, about the only thing the "less fortunate" elders were used for at assemblies were for "interviews" (during an affluent elder's talk) where they would briefly explain how they gave up higher education, higher paying jobs, etc.

  to serve jehovah full time because jehovah always provides, etc.

  just to make the "materialistic" young couples in attendance feel guilty and sign up for aux pionsneering, reach out, etc.. meanwhile, several affluent and well-known business owners in the district got all the front-and-center 15-min discourses... i always thought: "why are they up there giving these talks, instead of the more humble brothers in the district who are all but running themselves into the ground in field circus 6 days a week while the affluent elders barely get in 10 hours a week visiting not-at-homes?.

  1. 
  2. 
• 

  wobble

  Yup, same old gang time after time were given the talks, usually a number of them would be RBC guys, but it was remarked on that it was an "old boys club" , a new face was a rarity, unless one of the old fovourites had been DF'd or faded.
• 
  23

  The new writing department of the WTBTS

  by Aussie Oz in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  there is a new writing department in wt land.. us.. think about it, the watchtower/jehovah's witnesses are a reactive 'religion', not a proactive one.. that means of course that they react and modify doctrine, rules and direction in response to what ever may be effecting them.

  probably the last time they were proactive was the 40s and 50s but these days its all about preservation rather than growth.. i am sure that the actual writing department have eyes and ears out in 'aposta land'.

  after all, who discuss and disect the books, magazines and letters more than we do?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  wobble

  You could be right I think, that they pay attention to "da word on da street".

  What else would prompt them to try the pathetic and deceitful defense of the undefendable 607BCE date, but the furore on the Net about the lack of proof ?

  They know that even retaining many of the older ones will be hard in the "paying" countries who all have easy Internet access, so they react to the major criticisms.

  It is ironic that a religion that styles itself the "Truth" and is supposed to get the "Spiritual Food" by some secret process direct from Heaven, has to resort to lies and half-truths in articles reacting to those who supposedly have left, and do not have the "Truth"

  Hi from me too, you mendacious scribblers for the WT !
• 
  51

  Uber Dub wants to have dinner....

  by outsmartthesystem in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok. the good news is that my wife has eased up on the whole "talking it out with the elders" thing.

  she now insists that she is doing her"own independent research with unbiased materials" on some subjects.

  unbiased?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  wobble

  At some point this arsehole will ask you the loyalty question, something like "But you do believe we are in God's organization don't you?"

  it will come, in some form, over dinner, in front of witnesses, now, what do you do ? Lie ? O.K if you want to, but that doesn't get you anywhere, he will then ask you why you are not fully supporting God's Org. etc etc

  DO NOT GO, as they used to say on the old maps "There be dragons"