thought reform and the psychology of totalism page 429.. regarding the criteria of loaded language, lifton writes:.
...."the language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought terminating clich.
alternate ideas.
Hi Gareth,
May I make a comment on your post?
rf is not talking about brain washing but about thought control techniques and this is something very different. You will note that he has used a term related to brain washing (in a very oblique way) only once and you have done it (very specifically) nine times.
You are using a thought guidance technique closely related to the very point that rf is making.
link
this might sound familiar
a family in the kingdom hall is having some troubles with money.
they are hardly making enough to feed the family and pay bills, because something has happened in their lives that is financially devastating.
whyhideit,
That is a well reasoned and well thought out post.
It is my belief that you have touched on a major point in your penultimate sentence where you speak of child like insecurities.
What happens to us, and the experiences that we have in childhood, play a very significant role in where we go and what we do as adults.
This holds true not only for converts but for those born into the religion also.
We are able to make decisions and be accountable but there are lots of provisos. We need to be aware of what the choices are and have a need and desire to make changes before we can take any action. The basics are sometime lacking because of childhood experiences and we would far rather have the security of what we know or what we are told than venture out and "get hurt".
It is far easier and much more comfortable for some to just let things happen around them and blame the good on God and the bad on satan.
link
nails in the wt coffin-- what kind of nails?
a while back i posted my opinion that the wt's demise would come at the hand of the "home grown" legal department.
in my scenario i see the lawyers flitering cash out and creating legal manuvers to protect the players ( like any other corporate "legal theft").
Mary,
Thanks for clearing that up for me - I can breathe again. What you have said is almost identical to my understandng.
If anyone might be wondering (I bet you're not), this is important to me because I have challenged my wife to provide me with one shred of evidence that Ray was disfellowshipped for apostacy, as she and her JW friends claim.
I thought for a moment that I was about to be undone!
Thanks again.
link
nails in the wt coffin-- what kind of nails?
a while back i posted my opinion that the wt's demise would come at the hand of the "home grown" legal department.
in my scenario i see the lawyers flitering cash out and creating legal manuvers to protect the players ( like any other corporate "legal theft").
Interesting post but:
Scully
Ray Franz left the GB and was later DFd for apostasy
Can you clarify this for me. I never understood it to have happened like that.
link
taming of a beast.
it was back in 1993, the last day of work before christmas.
70 of us were laid off that day (after 6 months notice), and left at lunch, never to go back.
animal,
Just want to say that this is one of the best posts that I have read on this board for a long,long while, I could identify with everything you wrote.
Many thanks for sharing this with us.
link
i realise that i could well get shot down in flames here but it is my personal belief that the wbts will make a concerted effort to reinvent itself in the not too distant future.. i also believe that at this very moment they are working on ways to change the major doctrines that have become a millstone for them, without causing major problems and a mass exodus of the r&f.
as i see it they have to leave the vast majority of their teachings intact whilst removing or changing the problem ones.. by receiving some sort of new light on 607 b.c.e.
they would be able to change, or completely do away with, the significance of 1914. although this would need to be the ultimate aim i think it would be difficult to achieve without altering many of their current interpretations of scriptural prophesy.
Elswhere,
If it is that simple why dont they just do it? This teaching has to be an enormous mill stone around their necks. It would be one less impossible belief that they would have to try and instil into converts making the operation a lot,lot easier.
link
Edited by - link on 27 December 2002 13:40:54
i realise that i could well get shot down in flames here but it is my personal belief that the wbts will make a concerted effort to reinvent itself in the not too distant future.. i also believe that at this very moment they are working on ways to change the major doctrines that have become a millstone for them, without causing major problems and a mass exodus of the r&f.
as i see it they have to leave the vast majority of their teachings intact whilst removing or changing the problem ones.. by receiving some sort of new light on 607 b.c.e.
they would be able to change, or completely do away with, the significance of 1914. although this would need to be the ultimate aim i think it would be difficult to achieve without altering many of their current interpretations of scriptural prophesy.
Hi Analysis,
Do you think that the 1914 doctrine, based on 607 as the year of the fall of Jerusalem, is unimportant?
The reason that I ask is that it was this and the teachings connected to it that were my most important consideration when rejecting the religion. I also understand from other threads that this is true of a number of posters here.
Doing away with shunning would be an excellent step forward but you would still be asking people to believe something that does not stack up against the present known facts.
link
i realise that i could well get shot down in flames here but it is my personal belief that the wbts will make a concerted effort to reinvent itself in the not too distant future.. i also believe that at this very moment they are working on ways to change the major doctrines that have become a millstone for them, without causing major problems and a mass exodus of the r&f.
as i see it they have to leave the vast majority of their teachings intact whilst removing or changing the problem ones.. by receiving some sort of new light on 607 b.c.e.
they would be able to change, or completely do away with, the significance of 1914. although this would need to be the ultimate aim i think it would be difficult to achieve without altering many of their current interpretations of scriptural prophesy.
I realise that I could well get shot down in flames here but it is my personal belief that the WBTS will make a concerted effort to reinvent itself in the not too distant future.
I also believe that at this very moment they are working on ways to change the major doctrines that have become a millstone for them, without causing major problems and a mass exodus of the R&F. As I see it they have to leave the vast majority of their teachings intact whilst removing or changing the problem ones.
By receiving some sort of new light on 607 B.C.E. they would be able to change, or completely do away with, the significance of 1914. Although this would need to be the ultimate aim I think it would be difficult to achieve without altering many of their current interpretations of scriptural prophesy. They would also need to utilise anything they had left to retain their appointment to the position of F.D.S. and additionally retain the threat of an imminent Armageddon.
Obviously this would be an enormous task but one that will need to be undertaken at some point. Does anyone with Christian beliefs and some knowledge of WT doctrine have any ideas as to what might be the best way that the WBTS could go about this?
link
as i was sitting in my living room staring at my christmas tree the other day, for some reason, my mind turned to a possible way for householders who don't want jw's to call on them to get them to stop once and for all.
i'm not sure whether it would work or not.
now, we know that putting oneself on the "do not call" list doesn't work, because they will continue to call at least once a year to determine whether the householder's "circumstances have changed".
Could I make a suggestion here?
Some years ago I lived in a country where Jehovahs Witnesses were very, very unpopular with the general public. Just about everyone had a large notice on their mail box which just said: NO JEHOVAHS WITNESSES and it worked like a charm.
Perhaps a smaller version of this sign placed by the door knocker or bell would save an awfull lot of time and effort in dealing with them.
link
.
i'm just not interested in celebriating christmas.maybe the witnesses had that one right.. if i had children i would probably give presents , just so they don't feel left out , thought not having them myself did me no harm , maybe it made me stronger.but christmas is just one big fake pushed by big businessess, i am not their pawn to be played with.. ok you can have a good laught a few drinks and all that but all the while we are being taken advantage of by the comercial world .imagine the money they would lose if their was no christmas.. can't wait for that big turkey tomorrow though.
I have to agree with you on this one sleepy although I do see others point of view. I never enjoyed Christmas even as a non JW kid and all my life I have thought of it as over commercialised hype. Its just one big scam for the big boys to make money as far as I am concerned.
Have to admit though, I like Birthdays!
link
