leavingwt: Thank you for your references, however, as you probably know, the WTBTS has come out and stated many times that they are NOT prophets who prophecy, and they use quotations around that word to point to a limited role of their operation - namely, pronouncing the coming of Jehovah's day. Prophets of old would often announce coming destruction. Do you need me to post this info, or do you know about it already? I do agree they probably should not have even used prophet with the quotations - but they did clarify that, and they no longer use that term.
johnnyc
JoinedPosts by johnnyc
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193
Deceptive or just wrong?
by johnnyc ini have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.
in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.
however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.
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193
Deceptive or just wrong?
by johnnyc ini have been virtually non-stop studying everything i can get my hands on with regards the wtbts, and "apostate" literature and information.
in all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical.
however, i do find about 20% (if i have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning.
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johnnyc
I have been virtually non-stop studying everything I can get my hands on with regards the WTBTS, and "apostate" literature and information. In all honesty, 80% at least is non-sense and over critical. However, I do find about 20% (if I have to create a percentage reference) is appropriate in its line of reasoning and questioning. Of that 20%, a good portion is based upon "failed prophecy" - 1879, 1914, 1925, 1975 etc. The problem with much of what I read is the conclusion which the information is trying to promote - namely, the WTBTS is deceptive or fraudulent in its claims. However, what does the WTBTS gain in promoting such dates as possible conclusions to this system, if they are known to be untruthful representations? After all, it is much more of an embarrassment when these dates come and go without event, and has had a much more negative effect on organization membership numbers....thereby working against what it would seemingly be trying to do - increase membership. If anyone has a legal mind here, as you well know, to prove fraud you must prove motive and improper gain in an action. Where does the WTBTS gain in a failed expectation? From what I can see, they loose memberships and are left way worse than if they never said anything at all. In fact, you could say that when they make such predictions, the motive could only be that they honestly believe such. Unlike Mormons (Joseph Smith etc), the WTBTS has never claimed to be a "prophet". They only claim that they try to interpret prophecy left by others in the bible. Therefore, these dates should not ever be viewed as "prophecy's unfulfilled" but rather "failed interpretation". There is a huge difference between those statements.
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Disfellowshiped Last Night - Elder Question
by johnnyc ini know some of you know me by my posts...as someone very much on the "fence".
recently, i had made an effort to start coming back to meetings after being inactive for 2+ years.
during that time, i did have a prescription drug problem following an injury.
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johnnyc
Where else would I go? Regardless of many issues I may have over certain things the WTBTS, the more important teachings are in line with how I view God would want his followers to act. I can't see how God would find many holidays acceptable for his followers to celebrate. I don't believe in the Trinity. I don't believe in hell. I don't believe everyone is going to heaven. etc, etc. If you know of another group out there who has similar beliefs, without some of the other (more minor) problems associated with imperfect human direction - let me know! I say "minor" because like it or not, the doctrines taught by JW's are much more important than the indiscretions of their organization. Also, I can see that many times God has used sources which have been very much mistaken on a great many of things. In truth, no one can have a serious debate to prove that God's channel should be without error - never has that occurred. Has it ever occurred to you that perhaps members of the GB don't make it, yet his faithful servants still do? Even though Moses was considered very faithful, many Hebrews made it to the promise land whereas he did not. People hold their responsibility directly to God, and cannot hide behind the good or bad actions of another.
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Aussie news today Are most Muslim crazed fanatics or what?
by Witness 007 inin bali yesterday three terrorist who bombed two night clubs killing and injuring many hundreds of aussies were executed by firing squad.
huge crowds of angry people showed up to support these martyrs.
in bali most people treat them like rock stars....the same with 9/11 middle eastern people dancing in the streets.
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johnnyc
You know, it is so interesting to me to see "Christians" talk about Muslims as if their views about violence is so "foreign" to the principles of our God. Jesus is the "Prince of Peace", but how he will bring about this peace will be through the destruction of billions of people. Also, start by first reading the Hebrew scriptures about how God (YHWH) instructed Israelites to wipe out the residence of the promise land - showing no mercy for those people who were just living their lives - granted they were worshiping false Gods. Extreme Muslims view us (Westerners) as the Israelites viewed Canaanites (etc) back then. I know Christians like to place a very peaceable spin on "our" position, and even though we are instructed to be peaceable, let us not forget our God is a God of vengeance - and he will do way more than destroying a few buildings. Following this massive destruction of Armageddon, the bible says we will be joyful and give way to song (and probably dance). JP
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I'm expecting a return visit tomorrow. A little help?
by FreeWilly inso some nice jw ladies stopped by and left the "truth" pamphlet.
i told then that i wasn't a big fan of the bible since it was very divisive.
as an example i told them that my folks became jw's and it devestated our family.
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johnnyc
JW family members may associate freely with non-baptised family members. It becomes a problem only when a family member outside a house-hold becomes dF'd. For that matter, JW family members may freely associate with baptised members who simply "fade" away or simply stop coming to meetings - even going as far as not referring to themselves as a JW. Again, it is only a problem (and a major problem) if a family member is actually announced DF'd or they disassociate themselves. Before you think that just because you see all the negative info is on the web about JW's, check out all the other(ex)members info on all the other religions. You can find negative info like this on any organized religion of substantial size. Make "all things equal" before moving forward with setting your mind one way or the other. Realize there is always two sides to every story, and if perfection is what you are after in a religion, you will not find it. I find it interesting that most of what JW's are criticized for can be found in their own literature with self criticism of those same things (ie Proclaimers book). Also, give contemplation to Jesus' pick of Judas - was that an intentional error, or one allowed to simply go forward. Does God allow errors to go forth from His people as he has done throughout His dealings with Israel. Paul said that you would know God's people by their fruits - not their perfection. Whether or not you think JW's have good fruit or bad, that is only something you can decide. Listen to both sides and make your choice.
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Disfellowshiped Last Night - Elder Question
by johnnyc ini know some of you know me by my posts...as someone very much on the "fence".
recently, i had made an effort to start coming back to meetings after being inactive for 2+ years.
during that time, i did have a prescription drug problem following an injury.
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johnnyc
Thank you all for the time in responding. I want to clarify a couple things. First, my addiction did lead to doing things that were "over the line" with regards simple "dependence". I "doctor shopped" (more than one doc), and even purchased pain killers illegally (street). No question I had a problem and did things I shouldn't have. However, I do firmly believe that the elders on my JC should have determined my level of repentance at that moment based upon my acts to that point only. I can't imagine that I can only prove myself repentant by how I conduct myself when DF'd. I think anyone should have an opportunity to not be DF'd based upon their repentance at the time of their committee. If people are getting DF'd this way, it is no less than a perversion of what disfellowshiping is supposed to be about. I guess I will find out in my appeal committee. Again, thank you all for responding - I have taken what many have said to heart, and appreciate the recommendations of some. JC
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91
Disfellowshiped Last Night - Elder Question
by johnnyc ini know some of you know me by my posts...as someone very much on the "fence".
recently, i had made an effort to start coming back to meetings after being inactive for 2+ years.
during that time, i did have a prescription drug problem following an injury.
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johnnyc
Quandry: I said I was not a JW since I had been inactive for so long - and no longer professed to be one. I've only been back to meetings for the last couple weeks before they came to "help" me. - JP
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Disfellowshiped Last Night - Elder Question
by johnnyc ini know some of you know me by my posts...as someone very much on the "fence".
recently, i had made an effort to start coming back to meetings after being inactive for 2+ years.
during that time, i did have a prescription drug problem following an injury.
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johnnyc
Hello All. I know some of you know me by my posts...as someone very much on the "fence". Recently, I had made an effort to start coming back to meetings after being inactive for 2+ years. During that time, I did have a prescription drug problem following an injury. I confessed that recently, met with Elders, and was then disfellowshiped (DF) last night. They said I seemed repentant, though because I had not been to meetings long enough, they thought showing my repentance through being DF'd would be the best way towards "true" repentance. To be honest, I was shocked that I was DF'd since I know in my heart I was/am very repentant...and my acts were, in fact, my coming back to meetings on my own - not to mention getting help with my addiction. I left the meeting with my asking if there was any way I could not have been DF'd - perhaps there was something more I should have been doing to show the "acts which befit repentance". They answered by saying they simply felt there was no way for me to show repentance except through the long haul of now coming back from being DF'd. Essentially that answered the question with: "No, there was no way you could not have been Df'd from the point of you telling us what your problem was". I am going to appeal the decision based upon the seemingly contradictory approach to repentance. The WTBTS says "only willful, unrepentant sinners are DF'd". If you have to be DF'd to show your repentance, than that statement is not true. Any other thoughts? Johhny
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Does God direct the WTBS through Holy Spirit?
by Honesty inthe watchtower society and/or the governing body of jehovah's witnesses claim that god is directing them (may 1, 1961 watchtower magazine page 274 paragraph 11).. .
they say that it is vital that jw's appreciate this fact and respond to the directions of the slave as they would to the voice of god, because it is his provision (june 15, 1957 watchtower magazine page 370 paragraph 7) and that only people with independent and rebellious spirits ignore the fact that god is directing them (june 1, 1985 watchtower magazine page 18 paragraph 12).
they also claim that that jehovah is directing their steps by means of his holy spirit (may 1, 1961 watchtower magazine page 274 paragraph 11).
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johnnyc
Did Holy Spirit select Judas as one of the 12? Did Holy Spirit/God direct Jonah to Ninivah with a message and prophecy that ended up not occurring? There are many examples in the Bible of God's people who were often directed by Holy Spirit either making poor decisions or having things said by them not occur. Moses, who unquestionably was God's "channel" for the (to be) nation of Israel, made numerous mistakes - even being called out by certain men and their family's for his errors - only to find out that Moses had direct responsibility for his actions directly to God, but the people had a responsibility to continue to follow Moses. My point is that if you believe in the Bible, there are too many examples of the fact God's channel can make many errors without losing God's granted authority.
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What is the financial cost to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses?
by Thechickennest inhas anyone ever figured out what the cost is to be an average active jw?
i am thinking of the jw costume of clothes for the whole family & drycleaning.
the four door sedans, the fuel, repairs, and auto cleaning up costs after running a shuttle service at least serveral times a week.
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johnnyc
I am surprised no one quotes anywhere from the WT in response. The reason I think that's the case is due to the fact the WT does not say "You should not go to college" or "You should not participate in higher learning". Perhaps what my good friends here are trying to relate is the WT's position that someone would want to think about the best way to spend their time in view of the bible's instruction of living as if the end were imminent. This is not a WT teaching, but a bible command. Yes, I know the WT has been saying a "short time" for a long time now, and without a doubt they have made claims to certain dates as "significant" - with 1914 and 1925 as being a virtual certainty of the end coming (which they later stated how foolish they were in that thought). Paul speaks to young adults about trying to remain unmarried so they can dedicate their lives to the kingdom work. Paul does not say "DO NOT marry". The same could be said about the WT's "recommendations" on how one should keep kingdom interests first - as almost EVERY religion would claim as their official guidance. These are strong recommendations on life course directions - not absolute rules. Placing the right perspective on your claims is very important so one can ascertain what is truly being conveyed by the WT.