yesterday as our family entered the parking lot of our kh, we realized it was not our congregation entering.
soon afterward we remembered that this week was our co visit and we had missed the tuesday night meeting.
i think it's the first time in over 20 years that i missed a meeting with the co. tonight is our bookstudy/co talk, i wonder if anyone will ask where we were (not likely, everyone is so over us).. it's weird though because a large part of me could care less, and we were laughing about it all the way home.
Yes it does get easier, to easy! praying and bible reading become a thing of the past. One of my main motivations for returning was the loss of Jehovah in my life.
I have always believed in God and when you get right down to what you believe in regards to God, the bible, christianity. Strip it to bare essentials of belief, I discovered I was a One God believer in Jehovah and loved his actual son as my king.
Reniaa
hi deputy Dog
your question in reference to what.
hi isaac
okay where do it say God can be three persons.you might say it is implicit but look at things like Jesus calls his father 'My God' right upto revelations well after his return to heaven whereas the father never calls Jesus 'my god' only 'My Son'
this is a site written by a man who once felt as strongly as you do about the trinity I recommend it. take care you too.
http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/theology/deity/trinity.html
Reniaa
isn't the "blood components are still blood, thus a jw wouldn't accept them" essentially the same argument that jws reject when discussing the trinity?.
i.e., "the father is god, the son is god, the holy spirit is god, and yet there are not 3 gods but only 1 god"...isn't that pretty much the same as "red blood cells are blood, white blood cells are blood, platelets are blood, plasma is blood, yet there is just one 'life-giving substance' named blood"?.
if a jw asks you "if jesus was god, who was he praying to?
hi dark
flood stories have many points of commonality to show a flood racial memory and yes while there are triune Gods, there are also single gods, many headed Gods, many limbed gods, animal gods etc All this shows is there is a God racial memory too. that both the flood stories and God gets twisted and distorted by men and time is what happens but the tracce of truth is there in both.
that we had a global flood and a God.
Reniaa
does anyone know how many religons believe jesus was the son of god rather than god in human form?
those of you who are still christians, do any of you now believe jesus is god?.
hi dark
I have done my own scriptural research and found the oppostite to be true of john and paul's opinion of god.
John 17:3 jesus himself speaking as quoted by John.
3 Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
the only ONLY TRUE God and Jesus christ kept completely separate here by John.
1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
a trinitarian would say this is the headship principle but again they are reading the word Father into the word God to suit their theology and also they are ignoring that Jesus is the HEAD of man if headship meant you were part of God both man women and Jesus would be God too.
Pauls words here and absolutely no hint that Jesus is God.
if you want a good site this one shows a lot of trinity issues. The man on it isn't a witness and was a trinity apologist for 40 years till finally realised trinity wasn't biblically supported.
http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/theology/deity/trinity.html
Now to our God and Father be the glory forever and ever. Amen. (Philippians 4:20).
The God who made the world and everything in it, being Lord of heaven and earth, does not live in shrines made by man, nor is he served by human hands, as though he needed anything, since he himself gives to all men life and breath and everything. And he made from one every nation of men to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods and the boundaries of their habitation, that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us, for "In him we live and move and have our being'; as even some of your poets have said, "For we are indeed his offspring.' Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the Deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, a representation by the art and imagination of man. The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now he commands all men everywhere to repent, because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom he has appointed, and of this he has given assurance to all men by raising him from the dead." (Acts 17:24-31).
This scripture here is so powerful on God and showing that Jesus isn't God. and that Jesus died something God cannot do. The bible very specific that Jesus died and God raised him. trnity theology demands that the bible is lying here.
What really puts me off trinity is the amount of oxymorons it needs to support the theology.
Reniaa
hi isaac
I have the shema it states clearly that my God YHWH is one God where is your scripture that says God is 3? thats right it doesn't exist. And thats simply why we shouldn't believe in the trinity it isn't biblical as a doctrine.
Psacramento please don't start buying into trinity lies you will find yourself having to avoid most of the hebrew scriptures in an attempt to rationionalise the doctrines that are not supported by trinitarian scriptures. like no awareness after death etc.
Reniaa
last night my grandson got a blood transfusion.
it occured to me how stupid the belief is that to "abstain from blood" refers to a transfusion.
how would you reason with someone to show that abstaining from blood would not refer to accepting a blood transfusion?.
interesting way to twist acts 15 which was the jerusalem elders and appostles deciding what the christians should keep to as christians.
idolatry blood, immorality/fornication things strangled (which retain the blood) this was not about erm not hurting the Jewish christians feelings but what requirements to keep as highly important now they were no longer under the jewish law.
Unless you guys think immorality/fornication was just nothing so they were now allowed to sleep around commit adultery etc and just make sure they didn't do it near the Jewish christians and hurt their feelings because they were still kinda on strict on immorality.
Or idolatry time to get our cupboard Gods out now we are no longer under the jewish laws?
approximately 10 years later this list was reamfirmed in acts 21 as things still to be avoided and applied to ALL.
Reniaa
keep it simple if possible........i like the ice core samples.........thanks, this was not my big issue but i may be able to use it.......oompa.
feel free to direct me to another thread btw...... or maybe i should read the second page of olins thread!.
how did God produce Manna for the jews? how did Jesus walk on water? how did Jesus raise a 3 day old corpse.
I think it is safe to say with God's power you have to accept the impossible can happen if the bible says it does.
I'd rather have faith in God than a random big bang :)
Renia
isn't the "blood components are still blood, thus a jw wouldn't accept them" essentially the same argument that jws reject when discussing the trinity?.
i.e., "the father is god, the son is god, the holy spirit is god, and yet there are not 3 gods but only 1 god"...isn't that pretty much the same as "red blood cells are blood, white blood cells are blood, platelets are blood, plasma is blood, yet there is just one 'life-giving substance' named blood"?.
if a jw asks you "if jesus was god, who was he praying to?
lol it doesn't mention that their only has to be one blood in the bible like God is one and in fact when it comes to fractions it is a concience matter because they cannot in all conscience say it is still blood and so leave it to the individual.
What your saying is more like if I chop up a cow and I eat it's foot, I am not eating a cow I am eating a pig.
but more likely that You'll just get a straight "Blood isn't God" ...end of
Reniaa
hi isaac
well nice try on echad but wrong and every jew could tell you why. Shema - deut 6:4
Because the Shema is part of the foundational concept of Judaism, and because of the need to proof-text their doctrine, the Trinitarians twist the Shema totally out of its context of how it was originally given to the Jewish people by the hand of Moses. They wish to inject into the Shema the idea of a three-person Godhead, even though the Shema along with its complete original meaning and context out dates Christianity by more than a thousand years!
What they will willfully withhold and avoid is that echad , like out English word "one" is an adjective and is subject to the noun(s) it's describing. In English, as well as in Biblical Hebrew "one/ echad" can be used to describe one set of eyes, as well as one nose on a face. Example:
"There is one [ echad ] alone, and there is not a second.." - Ecclesiastes 4:8
.
There are not multiple subjects in the opening declaration of the Shema to be united with the adjective, echad . "God" is the single subject and "one" is that single subject's adjective. Again, there are no two or three subjects in the opening statement of the Shema to united under the adjective "one" ! Multiple subjects such as three God-persons within the Shema are only a figment of a Trinitarian's imagination. It's simply not in the text. A Trinity can only be injected into the text outside the confine structures of the Biblical Hebrew and English languages.
as this jewish site confirms in the shema deut 6:4 ONE is ONE never 3.
http://judaism-now.blogspot.com/2009/04/trinity-part-two-echad.html
john 8:54 is Jesus declaring he is the promised messiah nothing to do with the jews rejecting him as God.
Your explanation of 1 cor 15 27 shows your cognitive disonance reading the person father into the word God when it says 'it does not include God' to equate it with your theology. Yet the context keeps it to meaning completely God as God only, as the same scripture shows Jesus will subject himself to God.
Adam and eve are a race of humans you cannot use them as comparative to Jesus, father and spirit it would make them a race of gods thus polytheistic.
the word 'honour' is not the word 'worship' and if john wanted us to worship Jesus he would have said it. And JEsus is very specific about worshiping the father why wouldn't he mention himself and the spirit in this scripture?
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
Reniaa
the first and most important commandment according to Jesus is this one.
4 Hear, O Israel: YHWH our God, is one YHWH. [a]
trinitarians have to get past it because it shows YHWH is the only true God and the ONE.
I found another interesting scripture recently. Here Jesus is talking to Jews.
John 8:54
Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.
The jews God is the father only according to Jesus.
That Jesus is given much and glorified by his father God is understood but does any of that translate to making Jesus God himself?
1 Corinthians 15:27
For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.
Trinity in all it's versions has one commonality it is trying to say 3 = 1 God because the bible is very Clear there can be only ONE Almighty God to be worshiped
and Jesus confirms this when satan tempts him and notice Jesus is Showing who should be worshipped.
Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.' "
again quoting scripture in reference to YHWH. and here Jesus confirming which God we should worship even more specifically
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."
Again confirming the father is God and the one to be worshipped and he calls God "him" not them? even if you go with 3 separate persons under 'God' you need a lot of cognitive dissonance on this scripture.
Remember trinity isn't trying to say Jesus is 'a god' or divine-like with qualities from his father, they want to worship him and make him into ThE almighty God 3 = 1
Reniaa
