.
any biblical support?
please remember that there are a lot of things we consume which contaminate us, even in the everyday food we eat.
I wonder how many witnesses are alive by virtue of having to give up smoking it's the second biggest killer?
erm which do I prefer an org that says 'well smoking isn't in the bible so it's ok'
or one that has the strength to say....
'looking at the principles of the bible we can see this is something bad for us that God would also condemn'
i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.
i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.
those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.
hi one the way out
your points are correct but since 99% of christianity does do the trinity thing the few that don't? I have checked them out, the christeldelphians appealed the most but they don't believe in satan and have a lot of jewish slant in their teachings.
and as for having a faith just for myself...
passwordprotected your making a similar point
Religious groups may claim to be the mouthpiece of God, how many faiths do?
You're doing the classic JW thing in equating a group or organisation with faith, when in fact that are completely different concepts.
I have faith and for me it would be in Jehovah how do I express that faith? the NT lends itself to a support group environment, a faith of one is a lonely place to be and not an easy road to walk, Accept for certain times in my life i've always had faith but it is more than a word it is a condition that brings forth actions.
Reniaa
i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.
i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.
those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.
How many faiths could stand the sort of scrutiny this site gives the WTs?When a group claims to be the mouth peice of Yahweh, and fails miserably, what other result would you expect? Your captive of a concept.
Erm how many faiths do not say they are the mouthpiece of God? None! they all do.....you even get it on here I've lost count the times quite a few on here say to me "I have holy spirit now God tells me what is the right thing to believe!" they are advertising they have their own personal mouthpiece..
I am not a captive, I've made a judgement on comparison and bible study and to be honest It was always a atheism or Jw choice for me, because the inconsistancy of the trinity doctrine never got my vote.
Reniaa
tonight i was sent this e-mail by a conserned brother it's going around australia....it gets wierder and dumber further down!
comments in brackets are mine.. food for thought!!!
t______ {no how are you just this comment and the article}.
i've been debating in my mind as a returning witness if this is a good thing, I think we won't know till it happens, this email is just someone being silly and drawing more than is there.
i came to this realization last night.
i got into an argument with my mother.
she said that maybe i should be looking at myself as the cause of hubby not becoming an ms. she said that i was not letting my husband make the decisions and not letting my husband be the head of the household.
I have had a similar problem,lets face it some people are not cut out to be grand parents but I persevere and my children still get a lot from the contact even if its me taking them to the grandparents all the time.
I will say I don't agree with those that advocate a sort of reverse shunning were you keep the child and yourself away from the grandparents.
In my opinion children are worth the sacrifices of keeping at least were the kids are concerned contact for their benefit.
Reniaa
i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.
i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.
those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.
hi barry
With the child abuse I don't think any faith is guiltless or government organisation for that matter, and if someone does an unbiased search you'll find Jw's don't particularily stand out, like I've said I've known a few non-witness cases and in one the case wasn't deemed strong enough to take to court and the other it was dealt with without involving the police basically the guy was thrown out but no more and in another it was revealed too late and the perpetrater already dying of old age, in one the police were called in and he went to prison, in the witness case I only know that the police were called and the man was convicted got 2 years in prison and also got disfellowshipped. Sometimes we have to judge from personal experience, I was never molested or left alone with elders or brothers who were not family members and this was through the 70's and 80's and I won't have other people tell me my experiences are not as valid as their's. There is a danger on these forums of having things rewritten for you by other people who try and replace your memories with a kind of group memory, it's easy to tell which people on here were once witnesses and which are just ones repeating what is the group line and various things come up again and again. This happens on all subjects
I watched an old black and white movie last night it's a classic with john mills called "The gentle gunman" lol not a western but a inside look at IRA and Irish people during the war, and it made a point that has just come back to me. there's a woman that has just had her husband die as an IRA fighter and her son is about to die for the cause too and she says to the leader 'you killed him because before you came he was happy and free but you told him he wasn't happy and he wasn't free and in doing that you took away his freedom and his happiness because he'd have lived his life without thinking these things"
You can use the same points against Jw's but this is were you can decide for yourself...if what this site says is what you actually have experienced then fine. If when I went from door to door and people thought I was talking rubbish then they have decided using their own judgement. when I go back to Jw's I go back having experienced 11 years of the opposite and much was fun but much was exactly as I had be warned of but ignored. JW's give me information but I still put it agianst my own memories not someone else's.
Many on here are sincere they genuinely think they are saving us but that doesn't mean you can't judge for yourself, and when your reading a wt on here thats been edited to certain bits and taken out of it's time context I recommend checking the date and remember that even 20 years ago the world was a different place. because we are radically changing as a world nearly as much as the beginning of the industrial age, it's the "internet age" family dynamics are radically changing too.
You know I never was really aware of the wts when I was a witness it was all 'we are Jehovah's witnesses' the wts was just a magazine and I prefered the awake (especially the crossword puzzles I miss them) How many faiths could stand the sort of scrutiny this site gives the WTs? None! in making ourselves delve so deeply into it's past and the lifes of gb members we fall into the trap Jesus mentioned luke 4:22-24
22 All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. "Isn't this Joseph's son?" they asked.23 Jesus said to them, "Surely you will quote this proverb to me: 'Physician, heal yourself! Do here in your hometown what we have heard that you did in Capernaum.' "
24 "I tell you the truth," he continued, "no prophet is accepted in his hometown.
No faith run by and full of imperfect people can stand that sort of scrutiny, That why I go with doctrine and not imperfection issues.
barry said - With the issue of smoking other churches have sdvised their members of the dangers of this habit decades before the WT
Yes advised but how many listened? In England our government has spent millions on advertising to advise us of non-smoking over many many years but it didn't yield much result but since they actually brought in the law putting a total smoking ban in Public buildings there has been at least a 17% drop in smokers.....
reniaa
i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.
i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.
those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.
The bible warns us of false prophets. Why does the bible warn us of these prophets if by your reasoning "they are just imperfect men and make mistakes"? Because all humans are imperfect, what is the point of the bible warning us of these false prophets? Do tell!
It does but if we only measure false prophets on dates then the majority of christian faiths have done this, the older ones have learned to stick their head in the sand but once they were the WT equal on this. 1000 ad was popular for predictions. If you want to try and make wt into a false prophet you'll have to use more evidence than this, unless you aquit other christian faiths because there date naming was so long ago.......One thing I've notice is people on here will bring up paperwork from 19 century on wt onwards but they act like all other faiths are wiped clean by virtue of time.
Reniaa
i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.
i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.
those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.
Reniaa..Where a few pages back?..Your the Queen of Cut and Paste..This thread is 12 frigg`n pages long!..It`s unlikely I will find something,that does not exist..Can you save me some time?.........Why would I let Rutherford stumble me?..Reniaa that is lame,even for you.....You write about the WBT$ being against war..I show you "Yesterdays WBT$" tried to cozy up to War leaders..And..Today`s WBT$,is involved with War!!.......What the Hell is Wrong with you Woman?!!..I saved you from Disfellowshipping on another thread!..LOL!!.....I want some Real Answers,not the Crap you just served up.....Please answer my 3 questions!.................... ...OUTLAW
Outlaw your questions are just you trying to stumble me with showing me the org has made mistakes, you already know the answers you just want to get into a wt are evil because they have got accidently into a, b, c, they are also old stuff ackk but if you really want answers go onto topix and ask thirdwitness I think he can cope with loaded questions from you type of debate. http://www.topix.net/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness
i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.
i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.
those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.
Thank you scholar
for your support it was getting lonely in here.
Hi Outlaw
the apology someone has pasted a few pages back :S but don't ask me which ^^ Why do you let the actions of men (rutherford) stumble you?
hi caliber
your right it the dates did cause hurt and stumbled many but Men make mistakes and so do men-run Orgs. If holy spirit was enough and this is to Mouthy as well, why did the catholics go wrong? the whole history of christianity shows us that being God's faith doesn't guarantee that the leaders won't make mistakes quite the opposite and we see this from Moses downwards.
Many things can be forgiven, moses got arrogant and lost his opportunity to get into the land of plenty and look what happenned to the jews. I can pretty much guarantee any faith run by man while we are in this imperfect state is liable to make mistakes but......there are deal breakers the jews commited one, jesus came to them first and they rejected then killed him thats a biggy.....and for me the catholics commited another deal breaker when they became unevenly yoked with Rome and allowed False triune God worship to pollute their teachings......since then the consequences of this is 33,000 christian faiths and anyone could be chosen except instead of throwing off the mantle of the catholic false teachings they embraced them and So when Jesus does come He'll be looking for the faith of people still viewing his father as God and preparing for armageddon there isn't many to choose from.
hi orangefatcat
you use Aarons staff to support cross usage, well let me take another from the same time it was a snake......
14 Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
i thought long and hard before making this thread, that many will not agree with it but i think there needs to be balance and people to realise there are alternate viewpoints out there on many of these subjects, the ones that are most spoke about on this forum.
i was recently sent a full message containing mary's book and these links give the rebuttal to many of her points.
those that are still open-minded enough feel free to look over them even if in the end you still don't agree at least you have heard both the defence as well as the attack as they are on the internet.
hi caliber
I was jumping from peoples question to question but this thread is just throwing to many subjects at me, 1/20+ is not really good odds but I have answered a little as my life allows and the original links are there for those who are interested.
Isaac
when I said apposing I missed an 'of 'out i meant you and I are in fairly opposite religions.
now back to the dates I think I put up some evidence earlier in this thread showing that thousands of religions have predicted armegeddon and the second coming of Christ including all the major ones and so far it 0/0 on any being correct so do we throw tham all out as false prophets?
I personally don't put much faith in dates because of knowing the bible says we won't know but some will be knowing enough to try and prepare us, I'm not going to pick and choose a faith based on dates but on a list of things that i've already mentioned things that concern living with God in our everyday lifes. not a god that conveniently lets me do all things the bible condemns. God doesn't like us making dates and thats understandable from the sounds of it many have been stumbled for this very reason but please understand, I am stumbled by religions that encourage warefare and immorality and drug use etc
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Someone said you only want to save me, how can you save me? Do you know how to give me and my children everlasting life? as far as I know only Jesus and his father have the power to save anyone. All people on here can try and do is get me out of a faith they disaprove of, but my condition on removal is still a person who loves God and needs an expression to show it and for me as I've said before small niggling issues aside(i'm sorry but dates, whether rutherford or russel were deeply flawed men, or leadership is wrong despite the fact you all just voted a new president in but apparently you only disprove of religious leadership, and whether we are preaching EXACTLY the way paul did it, and if we can't we chouldn't bother is the consensous, these are niggling to me) Jehovahs witnesses are unique in so many of their teachings/doctrines, I can even see a time when they maybe the last faith strict on sexual morality.
If you choke on the little things but swallow the larger sins what can you say.
