FAITH is NOT a GOOD thing.
I don't know WHY humans presently give faith such a good treatment.
Posts by 10p
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49Who has lost faith?
by logic&reason ini am curious about who (after leaving) went on to other religions vs. lost faith completely.
once i started questioning the wt society, i began to question everything.
as jw's we are taught from childhood up that other religions are false - so it seems easy, after elliminating the last one, to be rid of religion altogether.. .
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21
How many have had a problem with the confession idea to elders?
by Hope4Others ini use to, well i still do think its no better than the confession idea to a priest.. 1. how many elders step down and are removed and what then?.
2. how many people have access to the file cabinet?.
3. my biggest thought is how many that are no longer elders repeat the dirty little secrets?.
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10p
Its not just the privacy issue either that bothered me ... it was that they dig down to get all the filthy details.
All they need to do really is say "this is the JW definition of fornication ..." then explain how it includes oral sex etc ... "are you confessing to fornication?"
And then with dignity and remorse, the person could admit. But the filthy bastards don't ... they ask things like "did he ejaculate in you?" and completely demean you.
And you are not allowed to bring in witnesses either ... thats just WRONG. The whole 'judicial' system of JWs stinks rotten. The society takes their fancy lawyers to supreme courts around the world that have juries and are open to the public, and the defense is allowed an attorney etc ... but they deny these simple 'checks and balances' to the flock.
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66
What do you do when you exit and your wife stays in?
by Quirky1 ini have recently left the wts and almost have my da letter ready to send.
my wife is still in and is higly upset by my stand.
she is afraid she'll lose her parents because they are still jw's and refuses to leave the wts, she still beleives it.
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10p
isn't chocolate really bad for dogs?
my wife and I have always been very much in love - when I first stopped going to meetings, it was difficult, but love has won over adversity. she's only about 70% in now - very happy to miss the odd meeting etc, says she knows there are things that are wrong, but she isn't smart enough to figure it all out and is just trying to be loyal to god. I respect her for that, and she respects my intelligence.
But I think its also a good time to get out of a not-so-great marriage too. I feel very lucky to have my wife - I know not all marriages are like ours.
Not having that whole 'marriage is god's arrangment' in my mind anymore, I dont see a lot of point holding a marriage together just for the sake of it. At least at a time like this, it makes you think about your relationship seriously.
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63
somebody tell me something interesting,
by Hortensia inanything as long as it has nothing to do with jws.
god, i'm tired of hearing about them.
(yes, yes, i realize this is an anti-jw site, but i don't care.
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10p
*boasting alert*
I got an A+ on my last paper (Business Communication). I'm studying for a degree through correspondence. Its nice to finally do tertiary study.
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6
computer question
by rekless inxp home edition 10 gigs there are 1.8 gigs free.
there are two users listed, now i have log on to both and cleaned out the files that are shared, still no improvement.. over the past year it has added vitual memory a couple of times; therefore, i assume (i know the joke) it moves some memory from one section to another and i am running out of memory.. if i removed one would it free up some hard drive?.
if so, how do i remove one of the users?.
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10p
you need to find what is taking up the space first
go to Windows Explorer, and right click->properties on the all the folders off the main Hard Disc (C:) - it will tell you how much space each folder takes
(in case you dont know, you will find Windows Explorer under Start->All Programs->Acessories)
of course C:\Windows and c:\Program Files and C:\documents and settings are where you would expect most to be used.
under C:\documents and settings, you will find the folders for the two users. right click on each one and see how much space they are using.
you might find the space is being used up somewhere you didn't expect.
if you want to delete a user, go to control panel->user accounts. From there you should be able to easily delete an account, so long as the other one is an administrator. Sorry I'm at work on XP Pro, which is a bit different in the way it handles users, so I cant go step by step through it.
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Why don't Elders who are sick and elderly ever step down?
by RULES & REGULATIONS inin my 35 years as a witness,there have been many elders in my congregation who were old,sick,tired,weak,and could hardly walk.
they had a hard time reading the material,couldn't remember names, and sometimes forgot where they were in their reading material and talks.they never stepped down as elders.. what are the reasons why most never step down?
can they be asked to step down because of age?
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10p
The only problem with this, is the duplicity again. As usual, the society says one thing to sound good, but their practise shows otherwise. They always go on about how 'elder' is not a title or position etc.
This is actually one of those things that always bothered me too, when I was JW.
I had no problem showing respect to the older men of great experience. I personally had no problem with them retaining the title. But for gods sake, it IS a title, and call it so. Its the doublespeak that irrritates me.
They would always go on about how being appointed was a 'step down', that you became a servant, a minister. Well, if you are not able to serve or minister anymore, then how could you be an 'elder'? It just showed how it was in fact a title, a position - that in reality, the younger brothers had ambition for, for its power and prestige.
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10p
and what would have happened to the insects that ate from the tree of life?
Scientists should be looking around that general area for 6000 year old insects.
surely if you ate from the tree of life, even the flood couldn't kill ya.
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87
WHAT if we're wrong?
by shell69 ini mean, i know i'm bitter.. normally these days quite strong, not feeling so much so much the last few days though.. what i'd give to do the things i was used to.
going doing the weekly shop with my mum, her popping round for a brew in the morning.. a hug from her, just to to know from the way she communicated with me, that she loved me.
i miss her so much.. and what if i'm wrong?.
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11
We've had an influx lately (newbies)
by dinah infirst off, i don't mean "newbie" in a mean way.. do you guys think it might be helpful if we have a "getting to know" you thread started?
let new ones, and long-tme lurkers feel welcome and share stories.. i've been fascinated by what i've read in the last couple of weeks, and frankly, usually too emotional to reply.
it seems the same old story replays.. .
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10p
I'll start then, shall I?
I joined the site a few weeks ago, but I've read it for the last 2 or 3 years ... just little bits at a time - would easily go 6 months without visiting.
I was an MS 3 years ago. I'm in Auckland, New Zealand, BTW. Brought up in the cult ... and always felt a little wrong. I'm a thinking person, and the constant pressure to NOT think wore me down. I like to work out how things work, and always thought I was missing something in understanding the religion .. like I didn't have enough knowledge. Of course, now that I'm 30 years old, I've come to realise that usually when I cant understand something (something that I *really* want to understand) ... it usually means the thing itself doesn't make sense.
There was no one single thing that triggered my 'awakening'. It was a series of very small holes in the dyke. Step one was probably my disbelief in the 'understanding' of Daniel. I actually forget the whole issue now, but at the time ... about 6 years ago ... it was a big thing for me. After reading Daniel and thinking hard about it, comparing it with other doctrines etc, there was one scripture about 1260 days or 1230 days or something like that the society had applied to themselves in the 1920 era ... the days didn't even fit, and the endpoint of this tumultuous prophecy ended with a watchtower mag being published ??? wtf ... they are published every 2 weeks!
But that wasn't even a nail in the coffin. I was still 100% behind the borg. well, maybe 99%. I remember about 10 years ago I said to my parents in law (my new wife and I went away with her parents on holiday) that if I ever felt the organisation wasn't god's one, I would leave and follow god. They were shocked. And so was I. Shocked at their being shocked. Because I got that little inkling that they were loyal to the Watchtower, not to god. I remember saying that god had changed his eartly organisation before ... like when he changed from the jews to jesus. He didn't announce the change through the existing organisation, and so we couldn't expect the WAtchtower to tell us if god had stopped using them either ... we would have to figure it out on our own just like Jesus' followers would have had to - and we would have to have the courage to stand up against the establishment. And I remember my father in law saying something like "be careful, that kind of thinking leads to apostasy". Whadda ya know ... he was right! So that was probably the start for me. Although ..... I could go on about all the tiny little doubts that surfaced in my teen years, which I quickly quenched out of absolute terror of being sucked in by Satan through apostasy.
Oh wait, I'm forgetting the whole thing with my father (an elder at the time) leaving my mother for a younger woman and the whole terrible, terrible way the elders handled that. I was 18 at the time. Oooh ... it was even more complicated than that. heck, its such a long sordid story, I will have to tell it in more detail in another post. Suffice to say, I got my priviledges removed because I went to my DF'ed father's wedding to his new wife when at the same time, a brother in our cong who was my age (he was 19) had just confessed to molesting my little brother (years before when he was like 12 and my brother was about 6). Fuck, I'm getting all teary now. Anyway, he was still allowed to read the watchtower for some reason. Anyway, I've since forgiven him - we were friends up to that time - and I've since found out how he was mistreated in his childhood. We are now good friends again. I will never forget the night he tried to drown himself because he felt so shitty about what he had done to my brother (which in hindsight wasn't as bad as it sounds) hell you forget how fucked up everything was
where was I?
there was the district convention 3 years ago where they announced the brother's credentials in addition to his name before he came up to give the talk. that didnt go down well with me. then there was the pathetic demonstration at the same convention where a brother is at his computer on the net, searching for how his brothers are doing in a country thats had a disaster. he googled "Jehovah's Witness disaster" and the result was "Jehovah's Witnesses: Avoid the Disaster". For some reason, that made me actually WANT to go to that website. Of course, he immediately shut his web browser. That little scene made me feel wrong. I just couldn't help feeling that the society really had something to hide. Its one thing to recommend you to be careful of apostasy and that the best thing is just to stay away from it. Its another thing to use scare tactics and those OTT demos.
So there were all these little things, and there were a whole lot more, but I can't remember them all now. Anyway, I was "spiritually weak". One day I looked up JWs on wikipedia, which 2 years ago was my new most loved thing in the world. I love learning, I love information. I wish I could have been a scientist, but I didn't get to go to university for obvious reasons. Anyway, the wikipedia article mentioned Ray Franz, and that fuckin' floored me. I never knew one of the GB had become apostate. In my mind, there was NO WAY that could ever be right. I know all about Judas Iscariot, but this is different. I was literaly shaking when I read that. My pulse was racing, I was in a cold sweat. It was the scariest thing I ever went through so far. Well, maybe the night my wife was rushed to hospital was worse.
Anyway, there was always this nagging doubt I had ... ever since I got married ... about oral sex. I knew there was a watchtower that condemed it, but it was just so nice ... and my wife and I engaged in it regularly (even though I was an MS). I know, sorry, too much information! Anyway, so I thought I'd look that up finally. Finally had the courage to read whatever they had to say and be defiant against it. hehe. well, that WAS the final nail in the coffin. The final nail coming OUT and releasing me from the coffin I was buried alive in!!!!
Because it was the first time I became aware of what we apostates call flip flops. And its one of the best still, because it is so clear cut, a complete U-turn and still quite recent (1980's). At the time, I remember reading the second of 3 articles that were written about it from about 1975 to 1982. I really agreed with the second one - it said that the bible says nothing on the subject, that the prvious understanding was wrong, and that it is up to the couple's consciences, and the elders had no jurisdiction over it at all. I LOVED that article. I cried when I read Crisis of Conscience about a year later and found out that Ray wrote that article. Ray is a real hero. He stood up for righteousness. Even though he says he finds oral sex repugnant, he didn't see how the GB could force their own views on the brothers. Even though I'm now more an atheist than a theist, I still respect Ray for his courage, as I'm sure we all do here.
So about 2 years ago I stepped 'down' as an MS. it felt like a step up. 6 months after that I stopped going to meetings or putting in a report. My wife and I nearly split up. At one stage, it was only our 2 wonderful kids keeping us together. Happy ending though ... we are now closer than ever. My wife still goes to meetings and reports, but she has changed. She knows things aint right, and she's just trying to be loyal to god. I respect her loyalty, it makes me feel more secure in our marriage too. She takes in little bits and pieces of what I read now - she read over my shoulder little bits from my Richard Dawkins books, Newscientist mag etc. Evolution is a fact, people. It needn't cause you to become an atheist, but the funamentalist, literalist approach to Genesis is just plain wrong. Evolutionary theory may still change a heck of a lot as time goes on, but the main stem of the idea fits the evidence much, much better than Genesis.
And I no longer feel stupid. Things DO make sense again. I'm not trying to make things fit that don't. Try and write a proof that 1+1=3 and its bloody hard work. Writing a proof that 1+1=2 is a lot easier. And the things we don't know? Well, we don't know. simple. its like taking a puff from my puffer during an asthma attack - the feeling of being able to breathe freely again. aaahhh ... ventolin for the mind - thats what apostasy is to a JW.
I'm a fader, not DF'ed. Flying under radar, as it were, for the sake of my family. My wife is close to her family, we spend a lot of time at each other's houses having barbqeues and good times. Dont wanna spoil that.
Thats my story, sorry its so long, I even left out a lot of stuff. Thanks for reading it if you got this far!
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10p
This just made me realise that if it were true ... it means God invented the first weapon.
What would you think if the scripture read "and a flaming gun guarded the way back into Eden", or "a nuclear warhead guarded the way back into Eden"?