Posts by Switch

43

The copper serpent....drives me nuts!

by oompa in

graven images are so thoroughly criticized in the bible....totally forbidden.

yet any idols made where powerless...just a piece of wood you can also cook on.

yet god sent out zillions of vipers (thanks dude) to bite everybody....and actually has a scary viper impage made an put on a pole....with some serious power attached.

Switch

Its great how they take about 6 lines in the bible about some ancient snake curse and draw a picture of it and have us teach it to our kids (nice bedtime story) so that they know that if you disobey God he will send snakes to kill you.

Our kids are supposed to visualize these stories and believe them as nonfiction, yet they are not allowed to read fantasy stories for entertainment like Harry Potter, etc. I know one sister that didn't let her daughter watch Shrek. Go figure.

(Why don't we make a story about St. Patrick in Ireland chasing off the snakes too. Has about as much credibility.)

I like St. Paddy. At least his story had a happy ending. lol.

-switch

38

Did you return to celebrating holidays?

by song19 in

jw
friends

with this new light, i am starting to try and figure out what to do with my life and my time... now that the world is opened up for me to finally explore.. i have been wondering if i will return to celebrating the holidays with my 'worldly' relatives.

my parents, brother, and in-laws are all witnesses.

i have pretty much rejected the holidays say for 25 years.

Switch

Hi Song. I'm probably at the same level of re-integration into the real world as you are. I stumbled upon the pinata articles that Gopher mentioned last year. Here's excerpts from Sept. 22, 2003 Awake:

We found that for many people in Mexico, the piñata has lost its religious significance and is considered by most to be just harmless fun. In fact, piñatas are used in Mexico on many festive occasions, not just for the posadas or for birthdays. And piñatas can be purchased in many forms other than the traditional star shape. They are sometimes made to resemble animals, flowers, clowns.

When considering whether to include a piñata at a social gathering, Christians should be sensitive to the consciences of others. (1 Corinthians 10:31-33) A main concern is, not what the practice meant hundreds of years ago, but how it is viewed today in your area. Understandably, opinions may vary from one place to another. Hence, it is wise to avoid turning such matters into big issues. The Bible says: "Let each one keep seeking, not his own advantage, but that of the other person."—1 Corinthians 10:24.

And in the July 8, 2004 Question From Readers:

Piñatas

I read with interest the article "The Piñata—An Ancient Tradition." (September 22, 2003) It left me with some questions. The ties to false religion are well-documented. But the article seemed to take the position that as long as it doesn’t bother someone’s conscience, it is OK. What about birthdays and holidays such as Christmas?

S. W., United States

"Awake"responds: Christians refrain from any celebrations or customs that continue to involve false religious beliefs or activities that violate Bible principles. For example, the Bible definitely puts birthday celebrations in a bad light. (Genesis 40:20; Matthew 14:6-10) However, if it is very obvious that a custom has no current false religious significance and involves no violation of Bible principles, each Christian must make a personal decision as to whether he will follow such a custom.

We're taking things slow and I've been testing what I'm comfortable with. I'm not sure how we'll handle Christmas. Our parents are still JW's and we're not officially "out" of the congo yet. We recently took my 5 year old to a friend from school's birthday party. He had a great time. I was absolutely fine with it all and I'm not sure what the big deal was all about. Another post had mentioned that the two examples of B-days in the Bible didn't actually condemn the celebrations. And what if those two deaths had happened at a wedding celebration, would weddings be considered bad for the rest of time? It's simple reasoning to the average person but when you've been brainwashed for so long your mind automatically wants to reject these celebrations as bad.

It's interesting though that the above articles about pinatas say that it's basically okay because pinatas have lost their religious significance. Haven't Christmas, Easter, etc. pretty much lost their religious significance? My brothers that are not JW's have always just considered it a family holiday and gift-giving time.

Nobody says you have to do it the "traditional" way either. Every family can start new traditions. Think about it and enjoy the new possibilities.

-switch

138

Why I will NEVER be an elder again

by stillajwexelder in

so the po confirmed what many on this board already know.

at latest round of co to elders meeting, the co quoted from the society outline.

any elder or ms who encourages college for his kids or others or who allows his children to go to college will no longer qualify.. he then asked if i was going to take the cos encouragement and reach out again to be an elder and get my hours on the ministry up.. i replied "i will never be an elder again - i strongly approve of further education and college and have been through college myself.

Switch

I really hope the r&f become aware of this. I suspect this is another one of those things that are spoken but not going to be in print. Elders: write your own interpretation in your personal Flock book. I know of 2 prominent elders in my hall that have recently said they'd send their kids to univ. if they want to go. They still have a couple years before they have to make that decision, but should be interesting. I doubt they'd remove the elders in my hall. Maybe they'd be encouraged to step down??

I remember when the WTS was encouraging young ones (if they reeeally wanted further schooling) to attend trade schools or a local 2-4 yr. college so they'd still live at home and be able to attend meetings/service with their families. They didn't like the idea of teenagers being in the dorm setting with total freedom and being surrounded by overdrinking and sexual encounters. It sounds, like one poster mentioned, that the elders will only have the ultimatum of stepping down or being removed if their kids live at home OR sending their kids away to univ. to that "dangerous" environment and not being responsible for them cuz they're not under their roof anymore.

Yet another thing that I think the brotherhood won't be united in. Some congos will be hardline and others will overlook it. I feel bad for the unfortunates that happen to live in the first category.

32

Congratulations Awakened @ Gilead!!!!

by oompa in

jw
friends

graduating from college right next to bethel........and a gilead grad......too much.........and did you guys know he is the valedictorian.....like top score there.........awesome!.............inspirational!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but you may want to slow down a bit dammit.............oompa.

you are now a serious pain in the ass for wt.........college and bailing on your gilead skills......hope that does not need two l's bthw.

Switch

that's great news! Way to go A@G!

102

ARE YOU AN INTELLECTUAL? Why not?

by Terry in

jw
friends

i think i heard the word "intellectual" for the first time when i was less than ten years old.. my grandmother said to me that the presidential candidate for the democratic party (adalai stevenson) was an "intellectual".. the way she said the word...the timbre of her voice...the look of admiration on her face...led me to believe this was a good thing indeed!.

i think i may have asked her what the word meant, but, i don't recall exactly what she told me.

perhaps enough to confirm that this fellow stevenson was a "thinker" of admirable stature.. fast forward.. by the time my teen years came along there was a kind of dichotomy in society between so-called "eggheads" and common folk.

Switch

I have an avid curiousity and want to learn as much as I can. Unfortunately, my mind doesn't cooperate and retain things like I would like. I haven't touched any books on philosophy like you have, Terry so my powers of reason wouldn't be the same. I try to stay well-read though and love to hear out differing viewpoints. I've only had time for this, mind you, in the past 6 mos. since I've drifted from the meetings. But who knows, given time, I may get a few cobwebs out of this brain.

switch

45

The Most Tasteless Awake Cover ?? - Feb 8th 2003

by BluesBrother in

this magazine was disturbing to me at the time, but i lost track of it and only recently found it .

this is exactly as it was printed, no photo shop, i am not that clever.. it is credited to a newsagency, jan banning , panos pictures - so i do believe that she was a real child prostitute .

there is something that gets to me even now about this picture.

Switch

That child prostitution cover makes me cringe. I didn't realize that was a real victim either. Some WT's and Awakes didn't go out in service with me. They went in the bin. I wasn't about to place sensitive issues like that at the door. I thought we were supposed to be bringing God's message to people doors, not making them aware of MORE problems they don't have and being a public news service.

14

Are all congregations equal?

by kzjw in

i've not posted much, but as i've lurked here trying to find the answers about the wt lies, it only re-enforced my disdain for it's cult like properties.

i've read the horror stories of some who've been trapped in the "jw-multi gen" families trying to extricate themselves from the borg, and truly have empathy for "these ones".. i have also attended a couple of months worth of sun meetings with my wife (i listen to the talk, then walk during the wts) and as you've seen from previous posts, if the speaker lies, i will point it out to him after the meeting.

but yesterday in a conversation with my wife i shared with her what i read on jwd, compared to how her congregation operates.

Switch

Congregations are SO varied I've attended 6 different Halls from moving around and they've all been dramatically different from each other. They take on their own personality depending on the area and mix of people's personalities. The hall I grew up in was very strict, follow the rules to the letter, and if you're not a pioneer or striving to be a pioneer then you're a nobody. After I moved away, the second hall I attended was in an affluent area so the brothers were largely materialistic and loved status. I think my records from my old hall had barely arrived before we quickly got out of there. The third hall was more the same with lots of young people leading double lives. The fourth hall was a decent mix of people and seemed friendly, though had some real oddballs in it. The fifth hall was in a big city and the brothers and sisters were very humble but very social and not judgmental in the least. The sixth hall (which I've currently been in) has a wide range of nationalities and doesn't mix well together. Not that there are spats or anything, just little cliques everywhere.

You can get a decent sense of a hall by attending a few times. Certain halls have affected my spirituality over time. If I had attended a couple of them as an interested person, I definitely wouldn't have gone back. As it is, I was pretty much raised in so I accepted all the unbrotherly love as pretty much normal. Everyone is imperfect...God will correct things in his due time...blah, blah, blah. Now looking back at the majority of people I've met, the percentages of genuine, loving people can't be any different than people in other religions. So I guess that love that is supposed to be so evident between brothers and sisters doesn't really match up to what I've witnessed.

78

Why do you put up with crap off your JW famlies?

by dawg in

i see where many of you have jw family members that give you a ration of crap once in a while; i've heard many rationalizations as to why some of you refuse to speak out.

as many of you know, i wrote a series of letters and exposed my apostasy formerly; in the letters i told my family they had better beware of shunning me of treating me like a pile when they run into me, i realized that i couldn't make them accept me into their houses, but in public was a different matter.

i basically told them that in public, especially at funerals, that i would rain down a load of crap on any family member that shunned me or treated me badly in anyway.

Switch

I hear ya too Dawg. I've said before that I can't understand how people do a slow fade and keep any sort of sanity. My life has done a total turnaround in only 6 mos. I went from being a totally faithful, little lemming to NOT believing in the organization (obviously) but also pretty much chucking the idea of God, the Bible or any sort of eternal future. I'm keeping an open mind but if nobody has come up with all the answers in thousands of years past then I hardly expect a brilliant breakthrough in my life. At least I feel like I'm in reality now with the rest of the world.

Anyway, I know I couldn't possibly dump all of this on the family at once. Gotta take that in stages. But I've definitely stated my views of the Gov. Body to my friends and family. They are still reeling from the shock and audacity of me, I'm sure.

Also, I have to take into account that I always have to take crap from my mom on a weekly basis anyway. Usually it's not religion related. So why should the JW issue be any different? I guess that's what families do....or maybe it's just JW families? hmmm. Now you got me wondering. I think my mom has a very critical personality but maybe the cult has emphasized it more.

Well, my point was...families are going to give ya crap all your life. They criticize, question your decisions, treat ya like a child when your 37 yrs. old, etc. Hopefully, they'll still talk to ya after all is said and done. I don't care if my friends and family agree with me but they should at least show some respect and hear what you have to say. Unfortunately, my mom doesn't (so far) want to hear anything from me, but at least I have opened my mouth and I feel better for having expressed myself to her.

switch

4

My notes from the circuit assembly ( sorta )

by Metamorphosis in

jw
friends

as i sat through a day of the latest assembly - these are some of the notes i was inspired to write:.

(entry #1).

there's a light.

Switch

very poetic....remember to read your notes whenever the review of the assembly is covered at the KH. ha, ha

2

The Skeptic's Annotated Bible

by easyreader1970 in

this is worth taking a look at.

the skeptic's annotated bible.

er.

Switch

thanks for the link, ER. I love looking at different viewpoints now that I'm mentally out of "the Truth" and part of the world....or nearly. I'll have to check it out in more detail later. I noticed it had the Quran and Book of Mormon on there too. Should be very insightful and good for a laugh.

switch