I dunno if "pink" is the right word...
Perhaps more "magenta".
--ILOOWY
iloowy
JoinedPosts by iloowy
-
-
-
-
5
Intrigue in Madrid, a clandestine meeting of DO and CO with XJW
by iloowy ini got an error when i tried posting a message about my crossposting from extj.com/foro .
...so here's what i wanted to post... .
some folks wanted reassurance about my post translating .
-
-
iloowy
I agree with you that faking scandals may be stupid.
But the letter is out. It does say that about the family.
It is an outline from the WT Society to COs
and they've been told not to distribute copies.
BTW everything Jeru @ ExTJ.com/foro has posted
in the past has been truthful.
I don't think that the skepticism displayed
by some at JWD is wrong, but it is a bit
too harsh.
The letter exists, it got out and now we can all read it. Thanks to COs that don't quite
follow Mom-WT directives.
With regards.
--ILOOWY -
59
INTRIGUE, SPYING, DO & CO INSIDE INFO @ THE SPANISH EXJW FORUM
by iloowy inthe following is a translation of a message to extj.com/foro (let's call it the spanish jwd).
mary, david, once again ... did you know that you are the new watchtower in many circuits?
original post in spanish .
-
-
iloowy
Jeru @ ExTJ.com/foro
once again had a conversation with the CO
in question.
The guy sounds like he's going
through an awful time and maybe
on his way out.
But slowly, and painfully.
I wouldn't be surprised if we get
more and more traveling reps of the WT
visiting and making contact with the
discussion boards and members.
Thanks everyone for your insights and
for keeping the discussion open and
interesting.
With regards.
--ILOOWY -
2
Personal and Family needs are of secondary importance says the WT
by iloowy inthe letter / outline s-337b-08-s 11/97--pagina 2 has this on the first line: .
"atender las necesidades personales y de la familia es un objetivo secundario (1ti 6:6-8; w96 1/2 14 parr.
basically it's saying that personal and family needs are a secondary objective.
-
-
iloowy
Yeah, it's like stating the obvious.
But some people really want to see it in print.
Of course the WT had told COs that these outlines aren't to be copied or distributed, not even shown to elders.
But thanks to some still active in the Spanish congregations it got leaked out.
With regards.
--ILOOWY
-
5
Intrigue in Madrid, a clandestine meeting of DO and CO with XJW
by iloowy ini got an error when i tried posting a message about my crossposting from extj.com/foro .
...so here's what i wanted to post... .
some folks wanted reassurance about my post translating .
-
-
iloowy
I got an error when I tried posting a message about my crossposting from ExTJ.com/foro
...so here's what I wanted to post...
Some folks wanted reassurance about my post translating
the experience of Jeru at ExTJ.com/foro regarding a
quite clandestine meeting with a DO and a CO.
A letter was mentioned ...
the Letter / Outline in question is:
S-337b-08-S 11/97--Página 2
And it has this on the first line:
"Atender las necesidades personales y de la familia es un objetivo secundario (1Ti 6:6-8; w96 1/2 14 párr. 22)"
Basically it's saying that personal and family needs are a secondary objective.
This is the letter that was spoken about in the post "INTRIGUE IN MADRID".
The letter was leaked out and faxed, scanned then made into a pdf.
You can find a copy in the JWD archives or the ExTJ.com/foro where it first came out. I saved a copy on my harddisk and if you'd like a copy of the pdf send me a PM, I only have it in Spanish. The translation is available in the JWD archives also.
--ILOOWY
-
2
Personal and Family needs are of secondary importance says the WT
by iloowy inthe letter / outline s-337b-08-s 11/97--pagina 2 has this on the first line: .
"atender las necesidades personales y de la familia es un objetivo secundario (1ti 6:6-8; w96 1/2 14 parr.
basically it's saying that personal and family needs are a secondary objective.
-
-
iloowy
The Letter / Outline S-337b-08-S 11/97--Página 2 Has this on the first line:
"Atender las necesidades personales y de la familia es un objetivo secundario (1Ti 6:6-8; w96 1/2 14 párr. 22)"
Basically it's saying that personal and family needs are a secondary objective.
This is the letter that was spoken about in the post "INTRIGUE IN MADRID".
The letter was leaked out and faxed, scanned then made into a pdf.
You can find a copy in the JWD archives or the ExTJ.com/foro where it first came out. I saved a copy on my harddisk and if you'd like a copy of the pdf send me a PM, I only have it in Spanish. The translation is available in the JWD archives also.
--ILOOWY
-
59
INTRIGUE, SPYING, DO & CO INSIDE INFO @ THE SPANISH EXJW FORUM
by iloowy inthe following is a translation of a message to extj.com/foro (let's call it the spanish jwd).
mary, david, once again ... did you know that you are the new watchtower in many circuits?
original post in spanish .
-
-
iloowy
The fact that on two occasions men with high posts in the WT Organization have expressed similar lack of faith in the Society, that they are fed up and feel change is needed shows that there may be a certain degree of discontent and the possibility that there are many more who feel the same way but wont let it come out for fear of repercussions.
The chunkiness in translation on the post from ExTJ.com/foro is my fault. There's a certain fluency and colloquial feel of the words in the Spanish post that I just couldn't interpret. Perhaps if I spent more time thinking of English words that would really tell the story in a loose paraphrase and keep the feel and sound of the original... At any rate, the translation gives you a very literal rendition of what is said.
That said, I appreciate the post from the archives of H2O. I translated it into Spanish. I think it came out a little better translating into that language since it's my mother tongue.
I've known Seeker4 for years and considered him and the CO he talks about as good friends. This CO in question is someone who I felt had the most impact on my life as a Witness, when it comes to applying oneself as a decent human being and truly putting life in the words of the Gospel, walking in Christs footsteps.
It does not surprise me how fed up he sounds with the Society. He was and still seems to be a man of integrity.
I am sorry if my translation and it's lack of natural flow may have led some here on JWD to think the story doesn't have the ring of truth. It's my fault if the translation and not the content gave that impression.
The folks at ExTJ.com/foro were quite impressed with the similarity of the two posts. And as I said in the beginning the fact we have these two accounts, so similar and with such separation of sources, years apart, a half a world apart, from two different cultures, really tells us that there may be more who feel that way and who look forward to change within the Society.
Thanks for all the comments, and I hope if you give my translation a second read that you keep what I said in mind.
Sincerely, with best regards.
--ILOOWY
-
59
INTRIGUE, SPYING, DO & CO INSIDE INFO @ THE SPANISH EXJW FORUM
by iloowy inthe following is a translation of a message to extj.com/foro (let's call it the spanish jwd).
mary, david, once again ... did you know that you are the new watchtower in many circuits?
original post in spanish .
-
-
iloowy
The following is a translation of a message to EXTJ.com/foro (let's call it the Spanish JWD)
The poster "jerubaal1914" from Spain is very respected and has been a good source of inside info.
Below I've done a quick translation of his message and quote the original in Spanish at:http://www.extj.com/foro/view_topic.php?id=4684&forum_id=1
Hello friends. Yesterday, apart from some sad events, I had a very interesting day, too interesting, and I must tell you what. After going to the cinema, as I said before in another thread, I received a surprising call from an acquaintance, a district overseer in Spain--for whatever reason I happened to have my cell phone with me--and he told me “I need to talk to you. I'm with someone else”. I thought he was referring to my father.
The truth is that I got nervous, I couldn’t help it. I told him that we could have dinner together, and he asked me to please use discretion. And he had plenty of motives to be discreet. We went to dinner at a famous restaurant in Madrid.
My surprise was when he introduced me to the third person in question--a circuit overseer. Imagine the situation. I had to swallow hard because I did not know what was going on.
I did not know what to say. For a moment I thought they were going to talk to me about the discussion forum, everything that I was saying there, and they were going to threaten me with something ... but it didn’t go like that at all.
He (the DO) began to speak in a tone of voice very different from the Assemblies. His first speech was: Do not worry: We're just as fed up as you are.
Dear forum buddies, let me tell you, dinner lasted for over three hours. I do not want to recount every expression and information discussed because the locations and situations can give a lot away, but I can tell you that what I have been told are gems. I’ll tell you some, though.
The DO told me: “We are tired of Bethel and Brooklyn regulations.” He began telling me how they are instructed on supervising circuits, and how their only goal is that everything be done according to the ways of Brooklyn and their guidelines. Whatever else Brooklyn doesn’t care how it’s done. He told me about the arrangement of the Book Study, that deleting it has not settled very well with the WT purists and those who are not, because they have left us with "our asses in the air."
The CO told me that he’d been requested lists of brothers both Ministerial Servants and Elders who’ve been regularly missing the Book Studies so as to remove their privileges, and that now " what were they going to do."
The CO told me that more and more congregations are becoming more independent, that he understands why, and that there are bodies of elders who surpass Bethel Olympicicly, and what that means. Because he also does. In his own words he said: "for years now the talk outlines have me by the b***s " (I won’t say the profanity he used).
The CO drew from the right pocket of his Summer jacket, by the way a brand name one, a letter .... guess which one! The outline of the meeting of Elders and MS with the Circuit Overseer. And he had underlined the words: “family needs are secondary.” Does that sound familiar? He told me it was the most absurd thing he’d ever heard. He got a little more heated and said: “F**k’em up the a**.”
So now I told them: “Well, and why talk to me about this? I don’t know anything” I said. “I don’t understand.” Until this moment, I was quiet and waited to see whether it was a conversation-trap.
The replied that they know about me, and that if I chose to leave as a JW it was for a good reason. They told me they knew of my conversations with other elders (How ???), and that what I thought and I said in my committee was the same thing the majority of CO’s and DO’s were thinking... I asked them how it was they knew what I’d been saying at these meetings. They answered with: "Do you need to ask or are you telling us?"
They told me that they are privy to letters that get passed around between very important members of Bethel (Spain Branch) and the Society, and that people very HIGH UP in Bethel tell them everything up to the second. They didn’t name names... but said "let us say that if I were the branch committee, I’d be wary of EVERYONE at my table. Verbatim Text of the DO. He told me: “I can read up to here."
Here comes the funny part. They asked me to please join this forum EXTJ.COM, that many CO’s read the forum more that their own Watchtower, and publish letters they will give me, or comments they make to me, because they can communicate with other CO’s this way. Mary, David ... are you hallucinating? I spoke of the forum, and some of those who post here. Mary, David, once again ... Did you know that you are the new Watchtower in many circuits?
They told me they have suspicions of having "spies" behind, and assured me that Bethel has begun a witch hunt, as they are very nervous with people who are giving inside information. They told me that in Bethel nobody dares to send e-mails with "sensitive" information, because they fear that they are spying on the computers.
Well, then we talked about doctrines and started to laugh at Daniel and Revelation. One of them, with a glass of wine, told me: “What do I look like, Rutherford?”
I swear it’s like I was having hallucinations. I did not know that until this point how things were. They told me that they are embarrassed to do the Book Study with Revelation, and that when they're in meetings, sometimes they go to the lobby so as not to listen to the nonsense, making like they’re going over paperwork. Hallucinating it seemed, friends of the forum.
Incidentally, the CO’s tongue was getting warmed up, he told me: I’ve been tired of the circuit for quite a while. Let’s see if I can get drunk and they’ll assign me to Bethel, like they did Juan V. (those in Spain know who I’m talking about)
Forum members ... Do you know that I'm still feeling like it was a hallucination? I’ll tell you more things the next time. But I assure you that this is the strangest thing that has ever happened to me. By the way, finally, I told them that I would join the forum.
CO and DO if you are reading my post, you know who I am. Since I told you night that there would be a surprise.
=====================================================
Original post in SpanishHola amigos. Ayer, aparte de los sucesos tristes que hubo, tuve un fin de día interesante, demasiado interesante, y os lo tengo que contar. Tras ir al cine, como antes expresé en otro hilo, recibí una llamada sorprendente de un conocido superintendente de distrito en España. Por la razón que sea tenia mi móvil, y me dijo: Tengo que hablar contigo. Voy con alguien más. Pensé que se refería a mi padre.
La verdad es que me puse nervioso, no lo pude evitar. Le dije que si cenábamos en un sitio, y me pidió por favor discrección. Los motivos sobran. Fuimos a cenar a un conocidísimo restaurante de Madrid.
Mi sorpresa fue cuando se presentó el tercero en discordia: un superintendente de circuito. Imaginaros la situación. Tragué saliva, porque no sabía de qué iba todo.
No sabía qué decir. Por un momento creí que me iban a hablar del foro, de todo lo que estaba diciendo, y que me iban a amenazar...pero todo fue distinto.
Comenzó a hablar el SD, con un tono de voz muy distinto al de las Asambleas. Su primera expresión fue: No te preocupes: Estamos igual de hartos que tú.
Queridos foristas, la cena duró más de tres horas. No quiero contar todas las expresiones y datos, pues por ubicaciones y situaciones los pueden descubrir, pero sí puedo deciros perlas que me han dicho. Cuento algunas.
El SD me dijo: estamos hartos de Betel y de las normativas americanas. Me empezó a contar cómo los instruyen para supervisar a los circuitos, y cómo su único objetivo es el de que todo se haga a la manera de Brooklyn en cuanto a directrices. El resto les da igual. Me contó que el arreglo del Estudio del Libro, de eliminarlo ha sentado muy mal, tanto en puristas como en los que no lo son, porque les han dejado con "el culo al aire".
El SC me dijo que él había pedido listas de hermanos SM y Ancianos que faltaban a los Estudios del Libro con asiduidad para quitarles los privilegios, y que ahora "qué iban a hacer".
El SC me dijo que cada vez las congregaciones son mas independientes, y que hay cuerpos de ancianos que pasan "olimpicamente de Betel" y que el lo entiende. Porque él también lo hace. EN sus palabras me dijo: "desde hace años me paso el bosquejo por los mismisimos" (no llegó a decir la palabrota)
El SC sacó de su bolsillo derecho de una chaquetita de verano, por cierto, de marca, una carta....adivinad!!!! el bosquejo de la reunión de ancianos y sm con el circuito. Y tenía subrayado la expresión: las necesidades de familia son secundarias. ¿os suena no? Me dijo que era de lo más aberrante que había oído. Este se le fue un poco más la olla y dijo: Que les den por el culo.
En ese momento les dije: bueno, y porqué habláis conmigo de esto? Yo no sé nada les dije. No os entiendo. Hasta este momento, yo callado, y esperando ver si era una conversación-trampa.
Me respondieron que saben de mi caso, y que si yo opté por marcharme de ser TJ fue por algo. Me dijeron que sabían de mis conversaciones con otros ancianos (¿¿¿cómo???), y que lo que yo pensaba y dije en mi comíté era lo mismo que piensa....LA MAYORÍA DE LOS SC y SD. Les dije que como sabían de mis conversaciones en el comité y em respondieron: "nos lo preguntas o nos lo cuentas?"
Me contaron que se cartean con miembros muy importantes de Betel las cartas de la Sociedad, y que gente MUY ALTA de Betel les cuenta todo al segundo. No me dijeron quien........pero dijeron "digamos que si yo fuera el comité de sucursal, miraría extraño a TODOS los de mi mesa. Palabras textuales del SD. Me dijo: hasta aquí puedo leer. "
Aqui viene lo gracioso. Me pidieron por favor que me metiera en este foro EXTJ.COM, que muchos SC leen más el foro que las propias Atalayas, y que fuera publicando cartas que me van a dar, o comentarios que me hagan, porque es su manera de comunicarse con otros SC. Mary, David....¿no alucinais? Me hablaron del foro, y de algunos de los que aqui postean. Mary, David, una vez más...¿sabiais que sois la nueva Atalaya de muchos circuitos?
Me dijeron que tienen sospechas de que tengan "espias" detrás, y me aseguraron que Betel ha comenzado una caza de brujas, pues están muy nerviosos con las personas que desde dentro están dando información. Me dijeron que en Betel nadie se atreve a enviar e-mails con información "sensible", pues se temen que les estén espiando los ordenadores.
Bueno, luego hablamos de doctrinas y se partían de risa con Daniel y Apocalipsis. Uno, con una copa de vino me dijo: A que parezco Rutherford?
Os juro que alucinaba. No sabía que hasta este punto las cosas están así. Me llegaron a decir que se averguerzan de dar el E.L. con el Apocalipsis, y que cuando están en las reuniones, por no escuchar sandeces, a veces se van al descansillo, a hacer que están viendo papeles. Alucinar amigos del foro.
Por cierto, al SC se el calentaba la lengua, y me dijo: hace mucho que estoy cansado del circuito. A ver si me emborracho y me llevan a Betel, como a Juan V. (los de España saben de que hablo)
Foristas....¿sabeis que todavia estoy alucinando? Os contaré mas cosas de la próxima vez que nos veamos. Pero os aseguro que esto es lo más extrano que me ha pasado. Por cierto, por ultimo, les dije que me metería al foro.
SC-SD, si me estáis leyendo, ya sabéis quien soy. Ya os dije anoche que tendríais una sorpresa.
-
27
Brother Guy Pierce gave concluding talk at D.C. in Los Angeles
by BonaFide inthe last talk at the convention was about serving loyally with jehovah's spirit-directed organization.
i had such a hard time sitting through it.
even last year i actually enjoyed it.
-
-
iloowy
Thanks BF.
I too feel the zing has been zonking out of the R&F.
People are growing old.
In my KH I gave half a dozen talks for friends who passed away in their 80's and 90's.
And so many do have emotional issues and depression.
Where is the refreshment from the elders' care? With their noses high in the air.
Thanks for your post and your experiences. And...
Keep your chin up! It counteracts their noses being high up in the air.
--ILOOWY
-
32
Why don't JW's have their own school for young people?
by QuestioningEverything inthis is something that i have been asked several times and have wondered myself.
it would alleviate all of the uncomfortable situations involved with flag saluting, birthday parties, etc...
-
-
iloowy
There's also Pearblossom Private School which is run by JWs and a lot of homeschoolers follow their program.
http://www.pearblossomschool.com/
--ILOOWY