it's funny, how the bible describes it is far different from those i had spoken with or heard about.
let's all start listing the many different stories.
i'll start.
Two pioneer ladies were at my house for an extended convo. I asked this very question. One of them went into this long story about beavers finding their mates by various ways, including scent, etc, and how they "just Know." And how it's kind of like that.
The other pioneer, the smart one, looked like she wanted to crawl into a hole!
we just chat occasionally through my blog.
i've tried several times to tell him stuff about the wt, but he's in that know-it-all stage, and prefers talking to listening.
oh well... here's his take on it, after receiving an awake.
Kurtbethel - I'm kind of out of the loop on Awake magazine - around here they just give out WTs. Are all those images real? Even the one of the guy on his laptop in the igloo? Or are they just designed as part of the guy's parody?
we just chat occasionally through my blog.
i've tried several times to tell him stuff about the wt, but he's in that know-it-all stage, and prefers talking to listening.
oh well... here's his take on it, after receiving an awake.
We just chat occasionally through my blog. He's a twenty-something. I've tried several times to tell him stuff about the WT, but he's in that know-it-all stage, and prefers talking to listening. Oh well... Here's his take on it, after receiving an Awake. I guess it shows the purpose the "Awake" serves; it's so low-key it can disarm people?
"That reminds me, I was handed an issue of "awake" magazine, the companion mag to the watchtower and I skimmed it - it's practically a secular magazine, they just give a scripture verse every now and then and talk about things barely related to the bible. The cover story is "Is your food safe?" They go on for pages then talk a little about hygene in the bible. I tell ya they're going the way of the church of england and getting all mellow and secular. I think this is a good thing because christianity does much better as a philosophy than a "religion" imo."
"all mellow and secular".....
relationship issues: boundaries, freedom of choice and codependency .
i just read a very interesting thought in the book, "boundaries" by cloud & townsend.
the basic problem in human relationship is that of freedom.
000DAD: I'm SO glad you mentioned that book! It's an awesome book for anyone, and i can see how it applies to people who grew up JW in particular. As an 'outsider", this issue was something that i found just heart breaking in young JWs i and my kids have known fairly well in real life. The complete enmeshment is unbelievable. They are so smothered and controlled. Now they are in their twenties, and seem like little boys still in many ways. The CONTROL thing does NOT Work anyway, these guys have done "stuff" just like other teenagers, it's just that the parents don't know much about it. There are four of them, and last i heard, they all still live at home, aren't married or even close to it, none could support a family financially, not even close. :( For me as a parent, one of the most satisfying things is when kids MOVE OUT, and DO STUFF in life! These parents are missing out on one of the greatest pleasures and rewards, and what should be our GOAL - for them to make their own decisions, grow up, move out, move on, etc.
Quendi: Thanks for those additional titles, they sound really interesting. I love this topic!
apparently this gal was a relative, and was baptized at the ripe old age of 10!
i let them tell the story, after i had begun talking about how wt splits up families.
i responded that i did not agree with this at all, that this girl could not possibly have the mental capacity, the research/analytical ability, (or even the freedom, considering the info control!
Yes, PTN, they didn't say too much to that. Just kept insisting that this young girl was so zealous, and really ready, and understood. A relative suggested that maybe she was too young, but the girl was so insistent.
apparently this gal was a relative, and was baptized at the ripe old age of 10!
i let them tell the story, after i had begun talking about how wt splits up families.
i responded that i did not agree with this at all, that this girl could not possibly have the mental capacity, the research/analytical ability, (or even the freedom, considering the info control!
Apparently this gal was a relative, and was baptized at the ripe old age of 10! I let them tell the story, after i had begun talking about how WT splits up families. I responded that i did not agree with this at all, that this girl could not possibly have the mental capacity, the research/analytical ability, (or even the freedom, considering the info controL!) to be baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Spirit-directed organization! I shared that i have eight children myself, so am familiar with child development. I know how much kids want the love and approval of those around them. And in the case of JW children, they are so isolated many times, that the only other people really in their sphere are other JWs.
There were 2 women; the younger one , about 30 , completely understood the point i was making, and even clarified to the older one.
They wanted to rant about infant baptism in some churches, but i turned it on them, and said this baptism was more like infant baptism than they are admitting. Plus, those mainline churches that infant baptize, they know those kids might leave as adults, and don't practice severe shunning because the kid was baptized!
Talked about many other things as well outside at their literature table.
last saturday i was home with my wife,having a leisurely brekky pottering around in the kitchen ,then i noticed her standing still pondering ,what`s up i asked , wife :i thought i heard someone knocking ,i looked out the window to see two middle aged guys exciting my front drive.why didn`t you tell me they were their,i didn`t hear them.
i would have engaged them in conversation , but my wife doesn`t think i ought to,just let it go ,is her motto.. but my point is : i`m not deaf , and i didn`t hear them at the door , we were both in the front room ,my wife only thought she heard someone at the door only to be proved right observing them leaving i was in my pj`s and dressing gown so was not going to pursue them.
we have been living here nearly 5 years now and i can honestly say they have never been on our doorstep more than 4 times if that , i personally have only encountered them 3 times at the most.
Smiddy: To answer your question...YES! I'm just a never beenJW, but i'm a Protestant who likes to talk with Witnesses. I've seen a difference in the last 2 years or so in zeal, in even being willing to "argue", play Bible ping-pong, answer questions, etc.
I was talking with 2 guys that had a lit table outside about 2 months ago, and through them met a sister who asked me if i wanted a Bible study, and i said yes, gave her my info, etc. She only phoned me back once, to say that she was having trouble finding another sister to come with her, but she hadn't forgotten me, but has never called me back since then.
Also recently a guy came to the door with a Convention invite. I invited him in, but he said he didn't have time, so i said, can you call me , so we can make an appointment to talk later when you have time? And he never called back either. (now i may have missed the call, but he definitely didn't leave a message, which everyone does if you're really trying to get in touch...)
I'd say that many years ago, JWs that would come around seemed much more like they really believed in it, and were more well-versed in how to use the Bible. At least that's my observation in my area.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_5PLf-2FYIM
Maybe they should sign on this guy! (actual singing starts at 0:45)
garrit will be delivering the last talk today in huntsville, al for those interested in attending.
.
Agreed, Cedars! Does he do stand-up comedy on weekends? awesome!
i have a query about 1874/1914 for the beginning of the lord's presence.. .
in the literature, this is what was said-->.
when a foreign head of state visits a country, the dates of his presence there are generally announced.
Jesus reigning as King since 1878:
The Life-giver is present; and, since 1878, when he took his great power and began the exercise of his authority, none of his members need to sleep. -Thy Kingdom Come, 1891, page 240.
Since that time it has been emphatically manifest that the time had come in A.D. 1878 when kingly judgment should begin at the house of God. It is here that Rev. 14:14-20 applies, and our Lord is brought to view as the Reaper crowned. The year A.D. 1878, being the parallel of his assuming power and authority in the type, clearly marks the time for the actual assuming of power as King of kings, by our present, spiritual, invisible Lord-the time of his taking to himself his great power to reign, which in the prophecy is closely associated with the resurrection of his faithful, and the beginning of the trouble and wrath upon the nations.-The Time Is At Hand, 1902, page 239.
Jesus' Invisible Presence began in 1874:
"Pastor Russell...believed and taught that we are living in the time of the second presence of our Lord, and that his presence dates from 1874..."
(WT December 1, 1916 p. 5998)
"Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the Lord Jesus Christ is present and has been since 1874. "
(WT January 1, 1924 p. 5)
