AlanF,
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Posts by Hmmm
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13Key Notes on Ciro's talk on Armageddon
by Dogpatch ini have put up some key points you might want to see from ciro's talk:.
http://www.randytv.com/cironotes.htm.
randy watters.
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33
King of North-Muslims
by Dogpatch injust in case you passed it by, ciro aulicino from bethel speaks out on armageddon, muslims and the king of the north, reading apostate literature, and what the watchtower did after sept. 11th to help.
a must listen!.
http://www.randytv.com/whatfutureholds.htm
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Hmmm
1 thess 5:3 “Whenever it is—the apostle Paul is writing here—whenever it is they are saying peace and security, then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them…”
I must confess that when I was giving talks, I developed this same habit of interrupting myself after reading the first few words of a scripture to interject some inane comment about who wrote it, or where or when it was written. It’s an affectation that seems to be adopted by many JW speakers.
Now up to this time, we’ve been hearing calls for peace and security; we’ve had it during the Desert Storm war, the Gulf War, we’ve heard it when the United Nations have said it, but notice, friends, that this time, in this situation that what happened there in New York has changed things. No longer is the world secure. It’s the truth, yeah.
The WT always quoted this scripture and said that the fulfillment would be cries of peace and security—that the nations would claim that they had achieved some notable measure of peace, and this deceptive atmosphere of security is what makes the “sudden” destruction so surprising.
Are they now changing the interpretation? Will sudden destruction be instantly upon them when they are crying for peace and security or crying out peace and security? Are the events of 9-11 significant because up to that point there was peace, but now things have changed and the world is no longer secure? Come on! People have been crying for peace and security since man learned to congregate into villages. Besides, I thought the WT has always taught that times now are worse than they’ve ever been? Weren’t these critical times, hard to deal with, before September 11?
These terrorists can do a lot of damage. And the whole world is now united for the first time. They’re looking for not only peace, but they want security. The Eiffel Tower, the House of Commons, all the major places are now under threat. And so now people want security. And so the cry is ‘peace and security.’ People are concerned.
All the major places are “now” under threat?
9-11 didn’t make the European countries suddenly sit up and take notice of the dangers of terrorism. I was in London and Paris a few years ago, and there were soldiers with automatic weapons in the airports and train stations. They had wands to ‘sniff' your backpacks and camera bags for explosive residue at the Tower of London.
Probably since the late 60s, and certainly since ’72 (Munich), Europe has been well aware of the dangers of terrorism.
And this is the first time that we have such a situation which has galvanized the entire world. You think of the Vietnam War, the Korean war, even the attack on Pearl Harbor, those were between nations. But now you have a whole world coalition—including the United Nations—whom the Secretary General said on television ‘Now, we must root out terrorism off the face of this earth.’
This is the first time the world has been galvanized? What about the UN coalition in Kosovo? Ever heard of WWI? “Even the attack on Pearl harbor”? Pearl Harbor is what finally brought the US into WWII, which had already “galvanized” the two factions in Europe for years. I guess this is why they discourage Witnesses from attending college.
Hmmm
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33
King of North-Muslims
by Dogpatch injust in case you passed it by, ciro aulicino from bethel speaks out on armageddon, muslims and the king of the north, reading apostate literature, and what the watchtower did after sept. 11th to help.
a must listen!.
http://www.randytv.com/whatfutureholds.htm
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Hmmm
slip,
I was going to post the partial transcript in a new thread, but I was so blown away by your flawless WT reasoning, that I put it here to keep your post up top.
I have some smart-ass replies to the talk that I'll keep posting here. Imagine all the new veiws that'll get you! We'll get you a brainiac reputation if it kills us.
Hmmm
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33
King of North-Muslims
by Dogpatch injust in case you passed it by, ciro aulicino from bethel speaks out on armageddon, muslims and the king of the north, reading apostate literature, and what the watchtower did after sept. 11th to help.
a must listen!.
http://www.randytv.com/whatfutureholds.htm
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Hmmm
Here it is folks, by popular demand, the transcript of Pt I of the talk. I can't bring myself to do the other two parts. Maybe someone else will, and combine them all.
WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS FOR US
...horrific tragedy struck the US. An attack from a religious enemy that changed the lives of everyone in this country, including members of the bethel family who had to see that were traumatized. And it created a great, great change in people’s attitudes. And we have been very very concerned about what this all means.Well, what we’re going to do today, because God’s people have been tipped off by Jehovah as to what the future holds, they are not fearful, but are very concerned but awake as to what this possibly could mean.
Now we have been studying the Bible for years, and have been preaching the good news of the Kingdom. And we have also been aware of developments that God’s people have been notified through the pages of the Watchtower and the Awake! magazine.
There are five developments, friends, that we’re going to talk about, but I’d like to talk about the first one that we should expect to see.
I’d like you to open your Bible’s to 1 Thess. 5:3. This one really is electrifying in the sense that it seems to tie in with what happened in New York City a few weeks ago.
1 thess 5:3 “Whenever it is—the apostle Paul is writing here—whenever it is they are saying peace and security, then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them…”
Now up to this time, we’ve been hearing calls for peace and security; we’ve had it during the Desert Storm war, the Gulf War, we’ve heard it when the United Nations have said it, but notice, friends, that this time, in this situation that what happened there in New York has changed things. No longer is the world secure. It’s the truth, yeah.
These terrorists can do a lot of damage. And the whole world is now united for the first time. They’re looking for, not only peace, but they want security. The Eiffel Tower, the House of Commons, all the major places are now under threat. And so now people want security. And so the cry is ‘peace and security.’ People are concerned.
And this is the first time that we have such a situation which has galvanized the entire world. You think of the Vietnam War, the Korean war, even the attack on Pearl Harbor, those were between nations. But now you have a whole world coalition—including the United Nations—whom the Secretary General said on television ‘Now, we must root out terrorism off the face of this earth.’
Now that changes things, friends. That should alert us. That should make us very much concerned. Are we near the end? Well we’re not saying that. What we should say—look at this as ‘it’s time to stay awake. It is time to draw very close to God’s people. It is time not to miss meetings, but to get out and preach’—comfort the people—we have a great opportunity, we’re going to talk about that later.
But this development that’s happening now is going to happen SO FAST—Brother Franz, I shall never forget, said, “It’ll go like this.” [CLAP] He slapped his hand that morning, and he said, “It’ll be a trap. And once it starts, there’ll be no turning back.” Now we have all the springs of this trap ready to begin. But let’s see now what’s going to happen, that will be in this trap.
Now first of all we have to deal with this second develo—now this first development is already on the scene of the earth, there’s no question about it. Even the brothers there at Bethel are very concerned and watching about this ‘peace and security’ movement.
But there’s a development that has been going on, the rivalry between the radical king of the North and the democratic King of the South… Two great powers. How they’re going to run into this, I don’t know, and I’m not predicting, and none of us should. But let’s see what as going to happen:
It says there in Daniel 11:44… [reports that will disturb King of the North out of sunrising and out of north… he’ll go forth in a great rage to annihilate many…]
Now who are the many, here, that he is going to devote to destruction and annihilate? It is not the King of the South, the Anglo-American world power because the Bible tells us in Daniel 7:26 and Daniel 8:25 that he will be totally destroyed without human hands, by the heavenly armies under Michael, or Jesus Christ. So that leaves him out. Who are the many? Let’s let God answer. Let’s turn to Revelation 17:16 and we’re going to get a clue. And when you read that you’re going to say ‘my, they are many.’
Rev 17: 16 [ten horns (including King of the North) and wild beast will hate harlot and devastate her…]
Yes, we’re talking about the populous realm of false religion, you see. Now who is the identity of this Scarlet-colored wild beast—we have to look at them—who God destines to devastate BtheG? Well (and who helps us to see the King of the North’s role in this attackt) it’s the United Nations. The seven-headed, ten-horned monstrosity that she’s riding today, which she has been stroking and cooing sweet names ever since its establishment in 1945. Now the King of the North is a prominent member of this political beast. This shocking event that we’re talking about—this attack—will not be triggered by some human political(?) factors although what has happened in New York seems to indicate that it may!
But what’s going to happen to the destruction is that, in Rev. 17: 17 says that Jehovah God makes it happen. Notice that there. Look in your Bible there. It says he puts it in the hearts of the nations to carry out His thought of destroying this wicked empire of false religion.
Now why does He want to destroy false religion? Well, He has a right to. It’s a divine retribution from the Supreme Judge. Let’s list the reasons:
-She must pay for all her disgusting things. And they are disgusting, at what she’s been teaching and practices.
-She has to pay for inebriating mankind with the wine of her political fornication,
-And for shedding the blood of God’s Prophets, and Holy Ones,
-And the blood of all those that have been slaughtered on the earth.Now God’s implanting in the hearts of the political leaders the determination to annihilate Babylon the Great could very well be those reports out of the sunrising that disturb the King of the North against false religion.
Now, it’s incredible, people might feel, ‘Huh! Could the United Nations do that?’ But we have the scene ready. I mean, the situation’s already there on the scene today. Our lives are never going to be the same. We’d better accept that now.
The UN is suddenly going to—and she’s already working with the US to empower, and to go against this false religion. Now, we should not think that the UN is a helpless organization. It will some day, with the backing of the coalition, gain great power and do this attacking.
Now, when that happens, friends—and by the way, I’d like to mention something, too… Now, if you open up your books called Mankind’s Search For God book, and if you look at the opening—we know the front page, where the pictures are usually—we call it the front page, the inside cover. Look at the map and see how big the ‘Islamic empire’ is. I was told that it has more than Christendom. So maybe we have been looking at the wrong part of Babylon The Great.
It is the most aggressive. It is the one that is irritating the king of the North, and the Wild Beast, isn’t it? So we have to stay alert, friends. We do not know everything, but Jehovah’s giving us enough clues to keep us aware. Stay awake!
Now when the nations begin devastating Babylon The Great, including ALL these religions, including the aggressive terroristic ones, it’s going to signal the beginning of the Great Tribulation. Now there’s no turning back. This is the beginning of the end for all of Jehovah’s enemies!
But, friends, like we said yesterday at our Kingdom hall, it is the beginning of a new beginning for all of us who are His friends. Isn’t that beautiful?
And it means that the fourth development foretold by Jehovah God is about to begin—a development that is going to test our faith and trust in Jehovah to its very foundation.
Now friends, if we hope to survive it, we must take God’s prediction of this particular aspect as a very personal warning. We MUST be prepared for its coming. We MUST keep ourselves in expectation of it. All the more so since Jehovah not revealed many things about it, but just given us what we need to know.
What is that development? It’s a vicious attack that the nations will launch against us--Jehovah’s people. And Ezekiel 38 and 39—those two chapters, you may go home and read them—describe this assault, the motive behind it, and the final outcome.
Jehovah names Gog, G-O-G, as the protagonist[sic] in this prophecy. And from what he does, this Gog is really Satan the Devil, the ruler of the world, whom God has given the glory, and the authority of all the kingdoms of all the inhabited earth. As the God of this system of things, only he has the super-human power to direct such a massive maneuvering of nations depicted in this prophecy.
And, it’s in keeping with his character. He’s the original Serpent, the great enemy of God. He wants to wipe us out. So let’s not minimize him, you see. And ever since he was cast down from heaven, in 1914—err, between 1914 and 1908 [1918?]—this dragon, this fiery-colored Satan the devil has been trying to destroy every one and every thing devoted to God. And he wages war against all who observe God’s commandments, and who bare witness that now Jesus is ruling as king in heaven.
Now we can well imagine, friends—and this now begins to fit--how INFURIATED he is going to be when he sees us dwelling quietly in God’s peace and security, and his Babylonish prostitute screeching in pain as the wild beast chews up her blubbery, fleshy parts.
His frustration will explode into a paroxysm of rage that can be appeased by only one thing: He must completely eradicate Jehovah’s pure worship from the face of the earth—that’s what his aim is.
So, as Ezekiel 38:10 forewarns, Satan is going to think up an injurious scheme.
A scheme to whip up nations hatred of false religion, which is now probably building, as you can see it. But in it to wipe out TRUE religion, at the same time. He’s going to exacerbate the greed of these governments, and their anger, in their desire for peace and security.
Their economy’s in threat. Look at what’s happening to the US, the stock market. That’s going to happen to the whole world. The whole economy is dependent. It’s not one stock market, and the rest can go on. No, the whole thing is like a domino.
So they’re going to all unite. And it SUGGESTS in Dan. 11:45, that the King of the North will be leading the force in this Gogian attack. It tells us—now watch this—that this King is going to audaciously plant his palatial tents between the grand sea, and the holy mountain of decoration. Now what does that mean? It means that he’s going to plop himself in an area that is very precious to Jehovah God.
Yes, according to Ezek 38:12, God gets the King of the North and all of the nations to storm against us, in order to get a big spoil, and to do much plundering, you see.
Now you can imagine what’s going to happen here, in Ezek. 38:13: [observers asking Gog, you’re going for spoil and plundering?]
“Here you are mustering the entire world to go after a small organization of maybe 6-10 million people? You’re mobilizing everybody? What is that?” You see they just don’t understand that.
We know what it’s about, don’t we friends? God has tipped us off, right?
Oh, the Devil wants to destroy our spiritual paradise, you see. That’s something he’s been trying to do since 1922, and now he thinks he has a chance.
Now, it’s very obvious why he wants to do this. Do you realize that we in this spiritual garden are wielding an influence for Jehovah’s messianic Kingdom?
Why, our very presence in this park—right here this morning—is evidence showing that God’s government is now ruling in heaven. And it means that Satan’s short period of time is ending. That’s what you’re doing, you don’t realize that!
And you are declaring God’s great glory worldwide. And your very presence shows that you authenticate God’s claim to his sovereignty over the earth. You are devoted to him. You want him to be the King. You want him to take over this earth.
And you prove one other thing, friends: That Satan can’t turn all of mankind against god, as he boasted. But he wants to suppress these things. He doesn’t want anyone to know that.
But here we are in a spiritual paradise. And we’re not only here, in this park friends. Our brothers all over the world are meeting today—in New York, in Brazil, all over—just think.
And we’re flourishing at the very figurative center of the earth. That is where he can see us.
Publicly exhibiting these fruits, and look how lovely this park is. We have big trees of righteousness—faithful men who lead exemplary lives, who humbly feed and care for God’s people.
And look at all of you. A park is not only made up of trees. It’s made up of all kinds of vegetation—yes—in the form of all kinds of men who are bearing the sweet fruitage of the Holy Spirit. Little children that are like flowers—devoted little children, eh? A garden is made up of a lot of pretty little flowers—not big flowers—sometimes they’re little violets, you see… Lilies of the Valleys. All of you are there, friends, all of you maintaining and expanding our beautiful spiritual paradisaic [sic] state.
Now imagine how it fills him with rage to see us in this exclusive garden growing luxuriantly in the spiritually poisonous environment that he has purposely set up in this system of things; an environment of hedonism and rampant materialism.
He thinks he’s set everything up so that he can make every man unconscious of his spiritual need. But we’re a miracle, that he can’t hide. Our ongoing spiritual prosperity is proof that Jehovah God, the Supreme Sovereign of the Universe must be the one who is blessing us, that we could be growing in such an atmosphere.
Oh how this frustrates Gog. So, like his Prime Minister Haaman, that Amalachite crony back there, he seeks to kill off Jehovah’s people—scattered and separated—and who do not love his world, or the things in his world. People that he can not enslave with the desires of the flesh, and the desire of the eyes, and the showy displays of one’s means of life.
And you know in spite of everything that he has done to stifle our spirituality, here we are. And millions of our brothers around the world who keep on seeking first God’s kingdom and His righteousness.
Ohhhhhhohoooooooo how this galls Gog. He is so mad! He’s going to defoliate and denude God’s spiritual paradise if it’s the last thing he does! And it will be the last thing he does, friends. [Maniacal laugh]
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The King Is Dead. Long Live The Queen.
by Englishman inits strange how you can always remember where you were when you first learn about a cataclysmic event.
9-11 being the most recent case, or 11-9 in the uk.
theres been other times, of course, jfks assassination being the most well recalled event up until the wtc affair.. but, i can actually remember what i was doing at this very hour 50 years ago to the day.
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Hmmm
Come visit! Mind you I often see first-time American visitors quail in terror...our driving on the left blows them away!
It wasn't the driving on the left, if was sitting in the front seat, up top, on a double-decker bus while the driver sees how close (we're talking millimeters) he can get to the lamp posts at 50KPH on a busy London roundabout that freaked me out! Driving in the Plymouth countryside on one-lane shoulderless roads, with 3 meter berms on each side so you can't see what's ahead, and a space every so often to pull over to allow oncoming traffic to pass, was also pretty interesting.
I thought London would be drab and dreary, but it was pretty amazing. What really made an impression was seeing builings with cornerstones that read 1690 A.D.
Hmmm
Mind the gap! -
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The King Is Dead. Long Live The Queen.
by Englishman inits strange how you can always remember where you were when you first learn about a cataclysmic event.
9-11 being the most recent case, or 11-9 in the uk.
theres been other times, of course, jfks assassination being the most well recalled event up until the wtc affair.. but, i can actually remember what i was doing at this very hour 50 years ago to the day.
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Hmmm
The King had died. The nation was in mourning. Starting immediately, I was to wear a black armband every time that I ventured outside. I was not to whistle, skip, run, shout, play, make a noise, laugh, smile or do anything that could be construed as being that I was not totally devastated at the nations tragedy. We were all in mourning. No comics, no sweets (they were still rationed anyway), no playing of my only 78rpm record ‘How much is that doggy in the window’, no anything other than a sombre and serious demeanour was acceptable.
Sounds like the dark ages.
Hmmm
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33 Questions
by Yadirf inthe moody bible instititute wrote the watchtower society asking for a debate on the radio.
brooklyn sent them a list of 33 questions and stated that if they could not answer them, there was no use in debating.
23. was one penalty passed against his soul and another against his body?.
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Hmmm
33. If the real Lazarus had been in Heaven for four days, and then came back to live with his sisters again, can you explain why he never told them a word about his wonderful trip and what he saw up there?
A. He was molested while in heaven and was told that if he discussed it with anyone he'd be DFd, because their weren't two witnesses to the crime?
Hmmm
(who actually thinks #10 is a good question) -
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The return of Nibiru
by Okidok inis this the one of the most hidden secrets of our time?.
http://www.rense.com/ufo5/nib2000.htm.
in january 1981 several daily newspapers stated that pluto's orbit indicates that planet x exists.
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Hmmm
One quick question:
When Planet X passes between earth and our sun, earth will align to its strong magnetism temporarily instead of our sun's. For a short while Planet X will be earth's strongest magnetic voice or influence. Earth's rotation will then pause for 2-3 days. The controllers of NASA are fully aware of this.
For planet X to pass BETWEEN the earth and sun, it would have to be revolving around some other body. What is the center of planet X's system? Why hasn't something large enough to capture planet X in its orbit been found? (OK that's two questions--what are you gonna do, exile me to Zebulon III, the prison planet of the feared Tasoenthueco'entuh?)Methinks this is another plot of Emperor Ming to enslave us all. Sounds like a job for Flash Gordon.
Hmmm
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Christmas and other Holidays?
by lv4fer inhow can you go back to celebrating the holidays after you leave the organization.
don't you still feel that they are pagan?
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Hmmm
It cracks me up that wedding talk outlines have the disclaimer that the wedding rings are only a symbol of the couple's joining, there's nothing special about them, yadda yadda yadda. (Tell that to your wife, if you lose your ring, and see how that goes over.) The last three JW weddings I attended said this, but didn't specifically say that wedding rings can be traced to pagan roots.
So by the Watchtower's reasoning, I can celebrate any "pagan" holiday I want, as long as I use their wedding ring disclaimer? No? Then why not? Why can JWs wear pagan rings on their fingers 24/7/365 (not counting the odd extra-marital affair), but can't give gifts on one specific day?
The whole holiday=pagan thing was probably the last hang-up that I let go of. I still don't celabrate them because of my family, and there's no rule book that says you have to if you leave the JWs, but the society is being inconsistent in forbidding one thing with "pagan roots" but allowing another.
Last month I went to my nephew's birthday party--my first, his third. After the ritual slaying of the virgin, it was a pretty tame affair. I figured he was getting old enough to realize who was and wasn't there, so I swore his parents to secrecy and went. When I saw his joy at getting his presents, and eating pizza and cake with 15 of his 2-4 yr old friends (oh, his brave mother), I couldn't see how this could possibly be a bad thing.
Creature worship? Please. Parents want to make their kids feel special for one day, and a bunch of isolated men (well, 2/3 of them at least) in NY twist it into a bad thing?
Ray Franz writes about a couple he knows who had a tough time with the birth of their child. If I recall correctly, the child wasn't expected to live. Because of this, the couple felt more joy on the anniversary of his/her birth than on the anniversary of their marriage. Yet the Society has deemed that it was OK to engage in creature worship of two people--complete with pagan rings of matrimony--but not the celebration of the children of that union.
Hmmm
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Raymond Franz /key and gate
by Masterji inhow many of you agree with amazing that ray franz "handed you the key" and that "his writings became the gate to ...liberty?".
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Hmmm
I think that most of us are our own gatekeepers.
The information was there before Ray Franz shared it, and many of us didn't even read his writings until years after it was published. He presents it in a very compelling, non-threatening way, and certainly adds weight with his "insider's" view, but most who would read his books were probably looking to validate doubts they already had.
Hmmm