i was surprized by the deletion of the new book-for-baptism's.
chapter on partaking/being anointed.. can it be that they are thinking of de-emphasizing or fading.
my first reaction would be no, that this.
RunnnigMan,
Your actuarial table evidence was quite compelling. Pretty soon the number of Witnesses in that age group will be greater than the total number of people in that age group worldwide.
I tend to agree with dantheman. They need to dumb down doctrine for the new six-month converts, with the added benefit of it being easier to scrap as they continue to maintstream.
Hmmm
[pesky link doesnt work]
Edited by - hmmm on 16 July 2002 12:7:42
Edited by - hmmm on 16 July 2002 12:8:37
.
i know what it stands for, but who are the u.a.d.n.a., and what do they try to accomplish specifically, and why?
I heard that Panorama was planning on doing an expose on the UADNA, then the story mysteriously "went away"
there will be coffee in the back.
the format for thursday night will rotate, and will include slides, videos, improv talks about subjects speakers choose.
women will be elders and ms's......if they can be kings and priests with jesus, that's good enough for me; paul might not like it but he will get used to it.
I'm kinda partial to that 72 virgins thing.
OK seriously, I love the idea of the romper room for the kids. Expecting a five-year-old bundle of energy to sit like a statue for two hours is inhumane.
The WT study would be a real question and answer session.
You'd never hear " has been disfellowshipped" ...
Or " died refusing blood"
The hall could be used for birthday parties on Saturdays.
.
there is another video up @ bbc http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/live_forums/newsid_2124000/2124808.stm.
it handles some of the feedback they got from jw's and others.. ss
Hey, I just thought that was your name because Dutchie said it... so Sue me!
.
i've only just joined but i would be grateful if you could give me some information on this ngo business.. i live in england, am completly ignorant and no nothing about the un (everything i learnt in school went in one ear and out the other as did much else i learnt!).
i would be grateful if someone could explain what ngo is exactly and how jw's were involved with it.. much appreciated.
Bosho,
First, a hearty congratulations on taking the effort to actually contact the UN and Bethel to find out for yourself what's going on.
I'll try to tackle a couple of your points:
apparantly ten years later, the charter was changed and things were introduced that now would violate scriptural principles. So the WTBS got out when they could.
Hawkaw and others have done a tremendous amount of work verifying facts and refuting claims. All the evidence points to the fact that the conditions for NGO status were set in 1968, and the requirements to uphold the UN charter were in place in 1991-2. See also this thread by SirvetMiguel: http://64.4.30.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=478f003f5078154a1c0b89304549e09f&lat=1026773861&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2ejehovahs%2dwitness%2ecom%2fforum%2fthread%2easp%3fid%3d23877%26site%3d3
Can I ask if everyone here believes the bible to be inspired of God or do you believe it to be man's work.If you do believe it's inspired then which organisation is the correct one? There can be only
one as Jesus spoke of only one road leading to life.
Members here run the gamut; from fundamentalists to atheists; non-denominational Christians to pagans; agnostics to eastern philosophies. Among them, youll find many who profess a strong belief in Christianity, yet dont believe there has to be one organization. They believe that Jesusnot any organizationwas The Way.
Besides if NGO will tell you they were part and they
don't deny it themselves why do you need documentation?
Welcome to the board, Bosho.
Hmmm
.
there is another video up @ bbc http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/live_forums/newsid_2124000/2124808.stm.
it handles some of the feedback they got from jw's and others.. ss
SaintSusan,
Thanks for bringing this to our attention. I almost missed it.
Hmmm
a quote from panorama that i found very interesting:
what they did was keep a record of her fathers name and confession on a church database, a register of suspected and convicted paedophiles to be monitored.
we asked alison cousins to obtain a copy of her records using the data protection act ... there in black and white was proof that the jehovahs witnesses had known for three years that her father was a self confessed paedophile.
teejay,
http://www.dataprotection.gov.uk
It looks like the UK data protection act has a Freedom of Information Act similar to the US'.
I thought the way they handled those cases was beyond damning. It's one thing to sit on the information for three years, but the bastard had already admitted to molesting one daughter, and they looked at that poor girl and said she was lying? (Not, "sorry, we don't have enough proof", or even "we don't know who to believe", but "we know that you are lying to us"???)
If they could only see how pharisaical they've become. Don't these men stop and think for one second and see how legalistic their policies are? Can't they stop their knee-jerk defense of Mother long enough to ask themselves "would Jesus have told this poor young girl, who finally screwed up the courage to confide these terrible violations to her spiritual shepherds, that she was lying because there weren't two witnesses?"
I don't even have children, yet I watched the interviews with a lump in my throat. I can't imagine what you parents and survivors were feeling.
Hmmm
click on the "panorama" banner above, or here:http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/newsid_2114000/2114320.stm.
click on latest programme.
you can now watch the entire airing of last sunday's production, which dealt with the hunt for bin laden.
Countless hours of back-breaking research have uncovered the link for US watchers to catch the webcast of Panama... er, Panorama.
(In other words, BTTT)
Edited by - hmmm on 14 July 2002 20:29:32
earlier today, i spoke on the telephone with a jw who will sometimes listen to "anti" info, but typically regurgitates the typical "party-line" responses.__________ .
however, today, the situation was reversed.
it seems that this jw was "slightly stumbled" at the da held in louisville, kentucky back in late june.________.
blacksheep,
JW's aren't perfect...so exploit that fact in order to get people to see that it's not the "truth."
When one of the "truths" they teach is that they stand out from the world by their high moral standards? Absolutely.
Getting members to see that these fanciful claims of nearly perfect people being part of a perfect spiritual organization are arrogant and baseless is often the first step.
My mother's knee-jerk reaction to the UN scandal was "where else is there to go?" It's the mini-scandals that eventually help victims see that you can go just about anywhere and at least be no worse off.
Hmmm
if ray fanz had never left the watchtower and written his book would you be here now?.
if not, is that worrying for you?
how many here worked out it was not the truth alone without the aid of a specific book and how many needed franz's work or someone elses?.
messenger,
Were you signing your post Silentlambs'? Was this Bill Bowen using messenger's account?
Either way, I don't think Ray Franz is obligated to do anything. He wasn't obligated to write his books, he is not obligated to continue the fight on the Internet and elsewhere, and he is not obligated to help with the molestation issue.
Furthermore, Lee Elder is not obligated to help with molestation, and Bill Bowen is not obligated to help with the blood issue.
I don't think any of us should be castigated for the level of public involvement we choose.
To answer the question. If Ray Franz hadn't written his books, I would have probably wasted another year or so deciding it was all hogwash, but I'd be out by now. Once someone allows themselves to read "apostate" books and visit these web sites, they're already on the way out, they just don't know it, yet. With that thought in mind, I'd lke to welcome the two newest apostates to our fold... YouKnow and FredHall.
Hmmm
