Posts by BonaFide

47

Do JW's reveal all their doctrines to those they study the Bible with?

by BonaFide in

yes, the fairly new bible teach book contains some info in the appendix, but do witnesses include that in the study?.

BonaFide

I guess I am being called out? What I meant with my topic title was, "Do most Witnesses know they are not telling the whole truth to their student?" I guess I should have put that as the title.

I usually read the Active Topics, then I post a topic I have been thinking of, then I go back to work, then I come back online to see what you all have written, sometimes it takes a day or two.

When I first got to my assignment, I got about 8 studies pretty quick. They are easy to get in some countries. Then, in the traveling work, when I would accompany others, I would offer suggestions, I tried to be "encouraging." I would go on about 5 or 6 per week. I did that for 7 1/2 years.

What I meant was, I didn't realize all my life that when we tell a Bible Study about the judicial process for example, we put it in a nice light, a provision from Jehovah to keep his Organization clean. We don't tell them what it really is. I didn't realize what it really is. The same with blood, I used to have all these bloodless surgery quotes I used to use for students when we hit that chapter. I put it in a positive light. I used to be so careful what I told a prospective Witness, I put everything I could into the best words possible. I even would say that "Hey there are some imperfect people in the organization, so get ready to be offended sometimes." The student would feel like he was being told the whole truth, when in reality, I was wasn't doing that at all.

BF

7

How do you believe something is true - or reject it as a lie?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

when someone told me something new, or when i heard something new, how do you decide that it is true or not?

this was the way i decided to accept things or not for my entire life until a few months ago:.

1. does what i just heard support jehovah's organization?.

BonaFide

When someone told me something new, or when I heard something new, how do you decide that it is true or not? This was the way I decided to accept things or not for my entire life until a few months ago:

FIRST:

1. Does what I just heard support Jehovah's Organization?

SECOND:

2. Does it make sense? Is it logical?

If what I heard was that about some scientists who believe in creation, or Catholic pedophile priests, or global warming, or a worldly person being unkind to someone else, then I would usually accept it as truth, (unless it was a crazy urban legend), because it supports Jehovah's Organization as being right and others wrong.

I used to love to put current events in my talks, and find a way to apply them to Jehovah's Organization. I would make it fit somehow.

Now my decision on whether to believe something is:

1. Does it make sense?

2. Is there evidence to back that statement up?

I can't seem to write this logically, maybe someone on here can fix it for me. The point I am trying to make is that whenever I would hear anything, the first thing I would do is would relate it somehow to being a Witness and we have the truth.

So now when I talk to my family, and they do the same thing, it drives me crazy. They won't even consider the idea that the Organization could be wrong, THEY WONT EVEN CONSIDER IT.

Even is something is outright stupid or worse, like when we can't call 911 at the Assembly Hall unless the elders approve it, or when we can't accept our blood being stored, but we can accept blood fractions, which are processed and obviously stored. Or when an elder is unkind to someone, or when someone on the platform talks about college not being a wise choice, even though they themselves are in college. Or when a Witness is convicted of child molestation.

When I used to hear any of these things, the VERY FIRST THOUGHT in my mind was: How do I show that the Organization is right? What sentence can I say to show my loyalty to the Organization?

The frustration level gets so high now sometimes when I talk to my friends and family. They will say anything at all, absolutely anything, and allow anything at all, even death. But no way is the Organization wrong.

That is the number one thing to keep in mind as a Witness. Nothing else matters.

BF

46

So are my JW friends really my friends - or not?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

i am being investigated judicially, although weeks are going by without the elders saying anything to me about it.

i still comment and give my talks.. anyway, some of my friends are getting word about me being investigated, some in my family too.

a couple i used to preach with every week no longer call me and bug me to join them.

BonaFide

Thanks everyone for all your comments. I never thought I would be going through this in 2008. I thought we would be in the new system.

BF

46

So are my JW friends really my friends - or not?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

i am being investigated judicially, although weeks are going by without the elders saying anything to me about it.

i still comment and give my talks.. anyway, some of my friends are getting word about me being investigated, some in my family too.

a couple i used to preach with every week no longer call me and bug me to join them.

BonaFide

Ok, I understand that at this point they are not real friends. But I WAS THE SAME WAY. I shunned my own brother, and didnt invite him anywhere for years. But I still cared for him inside, I just thought I was doing the right thing. I would talk to him only sometimes, and I really thought he was a bad guy. The same with others that were "weak" I did try to encourage them, and spend some time with them, but then when I could see they didnt want the "truth" I stoppped associating with them. That all changed when I started to see what is really going in the JW world.

So now that I can see the light, I am back to being great friends with my brother, we are working on forgetting the past.

Won't the same thing happen with my JW friends?

Maybe I am just wishful thinking.

BF

16

Eye surgery and food poisoning, need tea and sympathy

by Wasanelder Once in

hey apostafriends, i eye was scheduled for a procedure to pump dye in me and take pictures of my eye so the ophthalmologist can see the bleeding in my diabetic eyes.

i need laser surgery to stop the bleeding that could encroach on my vision.

this morning i was supposed to go get that done but i awoke with food poisoning.

BonaFide

I have had a couple of eye surgeries, in fact, Bethel paid for them.

It feels weird because the anesthetic was local, not general. I was given something to make me loopy, but I still felt it. Anyway, I hope you do ok. My family read to me cool articles, not the WT or Awake, to pass the time. It helped me so much.

BF

46

So are my JW friends really my friends - or not?

by BonaFide in

jw
friends

i am being investigated judicially, although weeks are going by without the elders saying anything to me about it.

i still comment and give my talks.. anyway, some of my friends are getting word about me being investigated, some in my family too.

a couple i used to preach with every week no longer call me and bug me to join them.

BonaFide

I am being investigated judicially, although weeks are going by without the elders saying anything to me about it. I still comment and give my talks.

Anyway, some of my friends are getting word about me being investigated, some in my family too. A couple I used to preach with every week no longer call me and bug me to join them. Others that used to invite me to movies havent been calling me. I am getting weird vibes from a lot of my friends.

But these are the same ones who have visited me when I was a missionary, they have laughed with me, we have gone backpacking together, vacations, fun. And some tough times too.

Now they are acting strange towards me. The thing is, they feel that they are doing whats right, that they want the best for me. They want me to have everlasting life.

I really feel they care for me, but they are stuck. They are taught how to act. The same was I used to treat my brother, who is disassociated. He told me last week he still can't believe I am so nice to him now, its like a dream he got his brother back after so many years. So I did care about him, but I was stuck with the rules and I thought I was doing the best for him all that time.

I know for sure if my family and friends were out of JW, or if they knew what I knew, they would act normal again.

What do you think?

BF

33

I met with a surgeon yesterday about blood - wow

by BonaFide in

i was asked by a friend to go with an older sister yesterday to the hospital to talk with her surgeon about her upcoming major surgery.

hospital liason committee told her to watch the society's video on blood, and if she can't get her surgeon to agree on non-blood treatments, then they will help.

it was the weirdest experience of my life.

BonaFide

I was asked by a friend to go with an older sister yesterday to the hospital to talk with her surgeon about her upcoming major surgery. Hospital Liason Committee told her to watch the Society's video on blood, and if she can't get her surgeon to agree on non-blood treatments, then they will help.

It was the weirdest experience of my life. The sister looked at the surgeon as if he was Satan himself. He said she would only lose a unit of blood during surgery and he would recycle it back into her body. She asked him if the blood would "stop." He asked her for clarification. She said that if her blood leaves her body it has to keep moving. He tried to be nice to her but she kept on repeating words like "albumin" and "cell saver" although she didn't know what they meant. I cut in, because she had asked me to help her, and I said I am sure the surgeon will do fine, and she will be fine. He respects her position. But she didnt want to look at him and she kept on reading from her notes from the video. She would say, "Do you do hemodilution?" He would then try to explain, and then she would ask another one.

I then asked the surgeon what is his experience with Witnesses. He said we are all different, some reject some things and other Witnesses don't.

But the sister kept on getting mad at him, now she said, "Well, I really think you are a great surgeon if you refer me to another doctor who will respect my wishes." He asked her again what specifically she didn't want done, but she said, "I don't want you to store my blood." He said he wouldn't store it. Then she asked him if he would clean it, she wanted her blood cleaned with a machine that keeps the blood moving.

At that point I jumped in and said that since she had said she would accept blood fractions, and blood fractions have been stored, that I think it would be ok, but it is up to her. She said ok, finally. But she looked confused and angry.

The surgeon got out of there quick. He looked a little frustrated, he said at the end that he has a lot of experience.

Then the nurse came in and asked for a donation of blood. The sister said no.

When we left, I asked the sister what she thought of different Witnesses agreeing to different procedures. She said that we all have a conscience. I reminded her that blood fractions, which she said she would accept, are mentioned in the new "Keep Yourself in God's Love" book, and that they are made through processing the blood, so the blood would be stored during that processing time.

She ignored me and changed the subject.

She said she was happy to be faithful to Jehovah and even if she dies thats ok. And that so many doctors can test your faith because they dont care about God's laws.

132

What Is Your Present Status In The Organization?

by minimus in

jw
friends

are you disfellowshipped?

disassociated?

a fader?

BonaFide

I am still active, going to the meeting in a couple of hours. Elders havent met with me again to discuss judicial matter. I have a talk this coming week.

47

Do JW's reveal all their doctrines to those they study the Bible with?

by BonaFide in

yes, the fairly new bible teach book contains some info in the appendix, but do witnesses include that in the study?.

BonaFide

Yes, the fairly new Bible Teach book contains some info in the appendix, but do Witnesses include that in the study?

70

active jw's visiting here?

by Ronnie38 in

jw
friends

i was just curious---.

i assume that there are active jws that visit here.. any idea on the percent that the board has?

does it just seem to be a very few or is it a substantial number?.

BonaFide

I have been reading some of the posts from Rosalee, Renaia, and Worf.

I know that sometimes we feel strongly about things, especially when it involves lives. All of us have been affected by our being a Witness.

But does that justify our saying those things you were saying to each other?

There are so many of us that come on here who lurked for quite a while, who really want to discuss the important things in life and how to deal with so many difficulties of being a Witness, ex-Witness, or in-between. How to help our families, our friends.

I have gotten into those arguments before, and I know two things. One is that all of you will be thinking you somehow "won." And the other thing is that you will not have accomplished much.

One of the things that really hurts about some Witnesses is their judgmental, hating, biting, unkind way of treating each other. And they all have an excuse for it.

I am sure that you are kind people. I read your profiles. Is there any way to keep these discussions on what this forum is about, that is, to enlighten each other and support each other?

Some of us stay as Witnesses simply to help family and friends. I would never have spoken to someone who was like me even a few months ago.

Come on people.

BF