How is saying that "fornication is a sin" judgemental? It's very clear what Jehovah's laws are. Even Baptists read the Bible and know that God does not approve fornication. It might be true that he is just using excuses to live together with you and not taking the responsability of marriage, but the fact remains. Fornication is condemned. Galatians 6:5.
humble
JoinedPosts by humble
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23
JW Boyfriend is being brainwashed !
by Camay inmy boyfriend and i live together and have been for about 3 years.. he wants me to convert, after research i will not.
(i was raised bapstist) he hasnt went to the hall in two weeks, last nite he went because a "elder" called him, why did they have him in a meeting till.
11 at nite, he came home and told me he confessed and he is in trouble.
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Doubletalk
by Norm insome times the inconstancies and contradictions in the watchtower literature seems almost unbelievable.
the double standard of the watchtower writers seems to be without limit.. one of the explanations for this is that some watchtower articles deals with how jehovah's witnesses want to be perceived and how they want to be treated by society in general, and the contradictory articles deals with how the faithful and loyal witnesses should regard their enemies and outsiders.
in psalm 139 this is spoken of as a complete hatred.
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humble
So rejoice all of you fellow apostates, we will all be a part of the great banquet Jehovah will throw for the Watchtower Society and all Jehovah's Witnesses
Finally, somebody makes sence and acknowledges what will happen. Very soon.
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23
JW Boyfriend is being brainwashed !
by Camay inmy boyfriend and i live together and have been for about 3 years.. he wants me to convert, after research i will not.
(i was raised bapstist) he hasnt went to the hall in two weeks, last nite he went because a "elder" called him, why did they have him in a meeting till.
11 at nite, he came home and told me he confessed and he is in trouble.
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humble
You two are fornicators. That is not anti-jw, but anti-biblical. Of course, the situation can be fixed by following God's commandments and just doing what is right. If you love each other, get married. Marriage is wonderful.
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I"m finally gonna do it afterall these years!
by nojw86 ini"m finally going to do it , write that dang da letter.
being that we still have family in, i would like some assistance in starting out this task.
i have so much already in mind, but after being on these board and reading about so many of you, i can see the strenght coming from you the beautiful way some of guys can write.
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humble
Don't do it. Don't make a decision based on the manipulation of this board. You'll be happy if you leave things in Jehovah's hands and stick with his organization. Errors have been made and will be made, but look at the overall picture. Jehovah will clean up this earth, and bring his new system of things. Keep in unity with your family and just make sure all of you make it. It will be worth your patience and perseverance.
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RE: Ozzie's post on "Restrictions"
by had_enough ini have a question about restrictions on df'd persons wanting to come back to the org.. i finally joined here on mar 26, after reading posts for about a month, with telling my story first.
what moved me to join in was reading ozzie's post on mar.23(i think), about "restrictions" regarding reproofs, probations, and df'ing.
i appreciated his comments and was so glad when he brought the subject up.
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humble
bigboi: How did the Apostle Paul know that the man from the Corinthian congregation was not repentent? Why did he write to disfellowship the man? Why did he ask the congregation to forgive him in the second letter to the Corinthians? He could not read the persons heart either, but we know he had Jehovah's approval and his holy spirit guided him in those decisions. Today, elders in judicial committees pray to Jehovah for his guidence. During deliberations, they pray for his guidence many times so that they don't disfellowship a person that it truly repentant. Even at that, the person has the right to appeal to a new committee if they see that an injustice has been done.
LovesDubs: Wow, I sence a bit of anger on your post. You must feel good and secure at referring to all the thousands of elders in the thousands of congregations around the earth as hypocrites. You must of had a hard time with what? 3 or 4 of them in your congregation. Let's address some of your comments if you don't mind:
Then how can anyone including the Society SPECULATE about how he handled things afterwards?? Do you read what you say? They could just have easily said what happened between the time Jesus was 12 and when he was 30 as say what happened after this banquet...and oh by the way. ITS AN ILLUSTRATION. You know..just like the ILLUSTRATION about the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" which the Society also somehow made into a literal group, like the 144,000 of Revelation.
Are you skipping from one thing to another, or what? I'm not speculating anything, but you have to understand that there are repercussions to all our actions. King David was very repentant, but he was also disciplined and suffered the consecuences of his wrongdoing.
Yes it does show jehovahs forgiveness which is immediate and the sin FORGOTTEN. It in no WAY comes CLOSE to the way the Society/Elders treat the sheep in actuality. Love does NOT keep account of the error. The society and the Judicial Committees are anything BUT forgiving and forgetting entities, and that person's "sin" follows them even to death as a Jw and is a permanent part of his record.
This is not true. There is no permanent record. The only permanent record is if the person abused a child. Even if that person moves to that congregation, the previous has to inform the new congregation of the persons past to protect the congregation. If that person was disfellowshipped for any other reason, then it is not necessary to inform the congregation of his/her past. I should know, I'm the secretary in our congregation.
They dont EVER have the ability to give nor take anyone's status before God. The entire punishment is to make them a spectacle to others and humiliate them. Their relationship with God is neither proven nor disproven by their ability to fool people in the congregation...least of all the elders. The whole scene is a mockery of Jehovahs forgiveness.
I don't know your past, but by this these words you seem to be extremely pissed at someone. As elders, we are not there humiliate anyone. I know that I love my brothers and sisters very much. Even when they sin bigtime, it is very sad for me. But if they are stubborn in following their ways and want to continue their wrongdoing, then we follow what Paul instructed. You say that elders should not judge, but at the same time, what gives you the right to judge the motives of those elders.
Again...that person's record in the congregation will never ever again be "clean" and no one will ever treat them the same. If they ever change congregations, their records follow them and they will once again have to "prove" themselves to the hypocrites there who dare to judge them.
You need to calm down and not be so judgemental. Once again, the persons record does not follow them everywhere.
That person's conscience is CLEAN immediately upon his prayer of repentance to Jehovah. Not one single moment later. And that happens not when the SOCIETY decides it did..but when God and that person say it did.
This is very true, but if the person expresses this during the committee, he/she will not be disfellowshipped.
Well, I'm not here to convince you of anything. I'm just stating facts about the procedures. Obviously you are extremely mad about how things were handled in your case or someone else that you care for. One thing is for sure, going back to the case of the man in the Corinthian congregation that was disfellowshipped by Paul. If he would have thought the way you do, Paul would have never instructed them to reinstate him into the congregation. Meditate on my handle "humble".
Adios.
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39
RE: Ozzie's post on "Restrictions"
by had_enough ini have a question about restrictions on df'd persons wanting to come back to the org.. i finally joined here on mar 26, after reading posts for about a month, with telling my story first.
what moved me to join in was reading ozzie's post on mar.23(i think), about "restrictions" regarding reproofs, probations, and df'ing.
i appreciated his comments and was so glad when he brought the subject up.
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humble
I understand when you say that you don't agree that the "efforts" required are a good standard for judgement. But it's the only thing that is available since elders can't read the figurative heart. The purpose of this is to help the person gain his relationship with Jehovah.
I realize that some elders may be harsher that others when it comes to viewpoints contrary to the Organizations'. Again, if that person is publicly preaching his point of view, which is only that, his point of view, then that is a threat to the rest of the congregation. Each one can read his own Bible and come to his own conclusions. Time and time, the literature states to wait on Jehovah and he will reveal things in due time. The thing is not to concentrate on little bitty things, but to make it through this old system into the new one. Many things will make sence then. The apostles were humble and waited on Jesus. When Jesus told them that they could not understand things yet, they did not criticize him saying "well if you have the truth, that why keep us in the dark", or they did not say "we will study on our own and come to our own conclusions on what your illustrations and words mean." No they waited until most was revealed during the pentecost of 33 C.E.
Sometimes we don't understand at the moment why things are handled the way they are, but let's keep in mind that jehovah is in control at all times. He will not let us down, that's for sure.
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Re: "You wouldn't understand it unless you...
by Simon ini remember at a book study the conductor saying something about ho simple everything was and that anyone of us could easily talk for a minute about our beliefs.. everybody froze of course and was hoping he wouldn't pick them.. no one could or wanted to do it even amongst each other !.
it's a sad indictment of the 'faith' isn't it.
i have a theory that 90% of jw's could not tell you what the current beliefs were.
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humble
JW beliefs:
The kingdom of God headed by his son Jesus Christ is the only solution to the worlds problems. Jesus gave his life so that we had a shot at eternal life. We must follow in the steps of Christ.
That's it in a nut shell. Not too hard. Why poke fun at that? A bit childish I think.
JW's come all backgrounds, eduction, etc. and some just get nervous when asked simple questions. That does not make them insencere about their beliefs. It does not mean that they don't know anything. If someone asked me 'how is it possible for an airplane to fly', I would freeze, but after a few minutes of collecting my thoughts I could explain it.
Don't judge others, just because you think you have all the answers.
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RE: Ozzie's post on "Restrictions"
by had_enough ini have a question about restrictions on df'd persons wanting to come back to the org.. i finally joined here on mar 26, after reading posts for about a month, with telling my story first.
what moved me to join in was reading ozzie's post on mar.23(i think), about "restrictions" regarding reproofs, probations, and df'ing.
i appreciated his comments and was so glad when he brought the subject up.
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humble
I will respond to all three posts here if I may:
unanswered: Elders cannot decide or know if the conscience of another is 'clean'. It could be clean or it could not. Jehovah only knows what's going on with that person. The theme here were restrictions after being reinstated. Restrictions like 'not commenting in the meetings', or 'not being able to represent the congregation in prayer' gives ther person a goal to work towards. By that persons effort, the elders perceive that the person has made his peace with Jehovah and that Jehovah is blessing those sincere efforts.
BadAssociate: Thank you for your counsel, although I understand that it is not sincere but sarcastic. I will not reason with sarcasm. Elders will not disfellowship me for my views. Now if I stubbornly start spreading my ideas trying to turn the flock against Jehovah's appointed servants, then there is a problem. If one is humble and is sincere then there is no problem there.
had_enough: You said: how can they tell the person's 'true motives' by not allowing that person any contact with others'. Once again, I want to clarify, are we talking about the time while one is 'disfellowshipped' or the period when one has restrictions after being reinstated?
You say "A family member is not even allowed to sit with that person". This is not so, a disfellowshipped person may sit anywhere he/she pleases in the kingdom hall and with whomever. Disfellowshipping is a temporary discipline for not showing repentence for our wrongdoing. When someone is reinstated they can talk and associate with anyone in the congregation.
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39
RE: Ozzie's post on "Restrictions"
by had_enough ini have a question about restrictions on df'd persons wanting to come back to the org.. i finally joined here on mar 26, after reading posts for about a month, with telling my story first.
what moved me to join in was reading ozzie's post on mar.23(i think), about "restrictions" regarding reproofs, probations, and df'ing.
i appreciated his comments and was so glad when he brought the subject up.
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humble
The 'prodigal son' illustration was used by Jesus to show Jehovah's love for those that repent from their wrongdoings. He did not go into details on how the father handled the situation. For example, what happened after the banquet? Where there any repercussions to the prodigal son's actions?
One thing is for sure, it is a beautiful illustration of compassion and forgiveness fromt he Almighty, Jehovah.
Now, why are there restrictions after being reinstated?
First of all, it is true that the discipline is being disfellowshipped, but can the elders in the judicial committee read the persons' heart. Of course not, only Jehovah can do that. Anyone can cry and say that they have changed their ways. Restrictions allow elders to see the persons' true motives and these restrictions are lifted when the reinstated person asks for them to be lifted. Of course, this happens one at a time. The last restriction to be lifted is the priviledge of representing the congregation in prayer.The final purpose of all these procedures is that the person that has sinned will have a clean conscience and be able to serve Jehovah with a clean record.
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39
RE: Ozzie's post on "Restrictions"
by had_enough ini have a question about restrictions on df'd persons wanting to come back to the org.. i finally joined here on mar 26, after reading posts for about a month, with telling my story first.
what moved me to join in was reading ozzie's post on mar.23(i think), about "restrictions" regarding reproofs, probations, and df'ing.
i appreciated his comments and was so glad when he brought the subject up.
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humble
testing first post...testing...