Flipper - this is something hubby and I have been discussing quite a bit over the past few weeks. Especially with his brother being in the writing dept at Brooklyn. His brother has been over in Brooklyn in the writing dept for 12 years now and has done many articles for the Awake and then the WT and the last he spoke to us about it he was a compiler. He and his wife have been in Bethel (Aust) since their 20's - he's now 60 so they have seen a lot of what goes on. He is not a dumb person. So we keep asking ourselves - surely he must be able to see what a load of rubbish the WT teaching is - I mean actually being in the writing dept and having to find a way to make the WTS teaching sound believable in spite of historical evidence against it, to make sure what they are writing fits in with the numerous doctrinal changes and flip flops and is not going to get them a lawsuit - it would make anyone wonder.
But the conclusion we come to is that even if deep down they know it's rubbish - we're pretty sure he won't rock the boat. After all he is on such a good wicket. In fact 11 years ago when we asked them to keep their promise and return to Australia to help look after his mother as we were going through a very difficult time and were finding it very very hard to manage one of the things he told us as to why he wouldn't do it was because of the security for the future that they had living in Bethel. He said he knew they would be looked after when they got older and would always have somewhere to live. (By the way I wonder how many others thought that and got kicked out in the recent 'downsizing'.)
Why would they want to leave now. They have a fantastic lifestyle. He and his wife fly all over the country (USA) giving talks at conventions and assemblies, memorial talks and the like. They are treated like movie stars in a way. They travel so much they get enough frequent flyer points each year to have a free airfare back to Australia every year, where JWs climb over the top of each other to pamper them, give them handouts and tell them how wonderful they are. Where else would they get that kind of prominence and adoration?
Now this is just one couple. I imagine that this same scenario could apply to many many more. Just be a company man, toe the line and all the benefits you receive will help silence the voice inside you that knows it's all a lie. Just my take on it.
Hopscotch
Hopscotch
JoinedPosts by Hopscotch
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48
What % of WT Society Higher Ups Really Believe what the WT Teaches ?
by flipper inas opposed to how many gb members, wt legal, wt corporate attorneys and the powers of the wt society know it's a big scam to exert power and control over it's members ?
as always i look forward to your opinions and observations .
peace out to all, mr. flipper.
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Hopscotch
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New Video on the July 2009 Awake
by rifter ini hope this is the right section to post this!
i just finished a new video discussing the july 2009 awake article, is it wrong to change your religion?.
most of us have been pretty shocked over this one, so i think it's important to get the message out there as much as we can.
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Hopscotch
rifter - That was brilliant. I was so hoping that someone would do a video on this Awake - I was asking in the thread I started last week on here about this Awake article http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/174959/1/No-One-Should-Be-Made-to-Choosee280a6-LIES-from-July-09-Awake if someone could make a video. So well done - I hope thousands or tens of thousands including JWs watch it. Thank you so much for making it.
Hopscotch
PS I don't know how to make the link to the other thread clickable.
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How did your Jehovah`s WItness Family treat you,when you no longer wanted to participate as a Jehovah`s Witness?
by OUTLAW inwhen we leave the wbt$ religious cult "jehovah`s witness`s"..the wbt$ encourages our familys to have little,or nothing to do with us..........our own jehovah`s witness parents will do exactly as the wbt$ commands..mine did.......my jehovah`s witness parents told other jehovah`s witness`s,"i hated all jehovah`s witness`s"..not true..i just did`nt like the religion..i had no problem with most individual jw`s.............................how did your jehovah`s witness family treat you,when you no longer wanted to participate as a jehovah`s witness?...........................................................................outlaw.
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Outlaw - like your 'son of satan' reasoning! LOL
Just want to add that like Homerovah we did the fading, lack of interest thing for 3 years or so. We were never really going to 'say anything' about the WTS. But it's like something inside of you can't keep quiet - deep down you know that to get on with living the rest of your life your way and not the JW way that things needs to come to a head, even though you know the cost might be your family shunning you. I think that's what happened with us. But the freedom to think for ourselves is worth it.
Hopscotch
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How did your Jehovah`s WItness Family treat you,when you no longer wanted to participate as a Jehovah`s Witness?
by OUTLAW inwhen we leave the wbt$ religious cult "jehovah`s witness`s"..the wbt$ encourages our familys to have little,or nothing to do with us..........our own jehovah`s witness parents will do exactly as the wbt$ commands..mine did.......my jehovah`s witness parents told other jehovah`s witness`s,"i hated all jehovah`s witness`s"..not true..i just did`nt like the religion..i had no problem with most individual jw`s.............................how did your jehovah`s witness family treat you,when you no longer wanted to participate as a jehovah`s witness?...........................................................................outlaw.
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Hopscotch
After we (hubby, son & I) missed the memorial last year for the first time in 40 years, my family realised there was more to us not attending meetings and going out in fs than us just being down or stumbled etc. Later in the year my dad asked my husband how he could help us and my hubby told him these are the issues we have with the WTS. Dad immediately switched out of dad mode, switched on elder mode and started using words like 'apostates'. He came to see us in December - still in elder mode, tie and briefcase etc - to supposedly help us with the issues but he really didn't want to hear our side of it. Once or twice the JW mask slipped and I thought we were getting through to him but it didn't take long for the cult mentality to take over again.
As he left to go and 'discuss this situation with the rest of the family' he handed me a letter from my brother. It was a cold, curt business type letter advising my husband, 18yr old son and I we were to have nothing whatsoever to do with him, his wife or young children - no communication in any form at all. This from a brother who up until a short time ago I was very close to and had constantly helped through major problems in his life, especially in the last few years. In mid January, after hearing nothing for 4 weeks I talked to my dad on the phone - he said he was not going to waste his time driving up to see us - a 20 minute drive! He gave me an ultimatum. Either we go to the elders, repent of our sins of apostasy and return to being a JW or the rest of my family cuts us off. He gave me 4 hours to think about it and get back to him. I rang back and said we are not going to return to being JWs. He ranted, raved and insulted me for the next 20 minutes - such as I'm satanic, demonised, lost my intelligence, deceitful, never really was in the truth etc etc and that as far as he is concerned I am dead.
He also said he was going to report us to the elders to have us disfellowshipped - but that hasn't happened yet, probably due to the fact that we have my very elderly staunch JW mother-in-law living with us. I am her carer. Her only other relative who could look after her is her other son who is in the writing dept in Brooklyn and feels his JW career has always been far too important to forgo to care for his mother. So who else would look after her. Very convenient for them not to df us right now. We don't intend to da and play their game.
So here I am, not df'd, not da'd, still talking to the witnesses who pick up mother-in-law for Sunday meetings and my brother-in-law when he does his 5 minute duty phone call to his mother every 6 - 8 weeks. But from my family - Nothing. I am dead to them.
Hopscotch
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some leave & stay quiet...why do some rant/obsess like me/us?
by oompa ini recently posted "why do we do this?
".....good answers btw.......but now.......i so want/need to let go......my wife will not change...and it has been nightmare awful lately.....i will never go back......i have hurt her soooooooo bad for over two years.........why cant i stop?...she is a great woman..........we might could make it if i could just shut up......get bye not just to her but my friends as well....... do i need meds for obsessive thoughts/behavior?..........damm i am obsessed over this cult........why cant i just not be a religious person....just shut up and be non vocal.........i just keep outing myself.......like a deathwish.......i do not really want to lose my family....i have lost most friends already.......but am scared to lose my family too......i know many here have......i just wish i could be a more silent fader....... if we shut up.......we are not really apostate in there eyes......but uh-oh.........if you keep on like me.......you are one.......and since i am even more non-judgemental now........she has a right to her own beliefs...... an old friend of mine just went back to jw.......he is now sober due to this decision...it helps him.....some just need structure.........plus......he has a chick in jw that loves him........and he will get wicked good poontang from her as soon as he marries this goddess.....so that is good too...oompa.
good luck poontang bound jw friend.......
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Hopscotch
oompa of the dots….It’s so easy to please others when we are young. Simple – we play by other’s rules and we get what we need and want. But as we get older and become more independent we find it harder and harder to keep up the motivation to live our lives as others want us to. Keeping up appearances and pleasing others is tiring and frustrating the older we get. We realise how short our life really is and that we have our own dreams and yearnings to follow – tagging along following someone else’s dream just doesn’t give us satisfaction anymore. Our own true self is bursting at the seams trying to get out until eventually it forces us to say or do things that will release it. If we ignore this voice inside us crying out for us to do something to get our lives more in line with our true self, then it will eventually give us us a big whack on the head someway or another to make us listen. And choosing to totally ignore it eventally destroys you (heard the term 'soul destroying') - you die a little more inside each day/month/year.
The need to be authentic and true to ourselves and live a life that feels right to us becomes stronger and stronger each year. It seems that deep down inside us the approval of others is no longer as important so we take risks to lead a life of our own choosing. And the older we get the more of a sense of urgency we seem to have about living our lives on our own terms so we find ourselves (I know I do and have done) speaking up even though we vowed to stay quiet.
And it eventually gets to the point that even if it means losing your family (like it did in my case) you say. “This is my life and I’m going to live it the way I want to. I don’t need your approval – you are living the life you want, now it’s my turn”. And you go ahead and do it – and all of a sudden you’re free! And boy does it feel good to be free of the chains of bondage that the WTS held me in for 40 years.
I like these two quotes:
Your only obligation in any lifetime is to be true to yourself . – Richard Bach
"Sometimes you've got to let everything go - purge yourself. If you are unhappy with anything - whatever is bringing you down, get rid of it. Because you'll find that when you're free, your true creativity, your true self comes out."
- Tina Turner
Anyway oompa that's my take on why some of us can't/couldn't stay quiet even though we thought we wanted to. All the best.
Hopscotch
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The hidden message in the June 15 2009 watchtower.
by Hobo Ken inthis study will set the tone for future-proofing the watchtower society doctrine that their governing body is "the faithful slave" mentioned in parable by jesus in matthew24.. i thought as i read the study article starting on p.20 that the most important thing about this piece is what is missing, what is not said.. the first paragraph sets the tone of what they are trying to convey.. "while giving the composite sign of the last days jesus said, who really is the faithful and discreet slave?".
i believe what they are doing with the opening paragraph is placing the authority and position of "the slave" within the context of the signs of the times thus attempting to validate it.
without mentioning when they became such.. they then say that jesus would "reward" and appoint this slave over all his belongings.
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Hobo Ken
This is interesting. I have been thinking for a while that somehow the WTS is going to have to quietly drop the 1919 thing. So many today have access to the internet and are able to find out what rubbish Russell & Co were actually teaching in 1919, the year that they were supposedly appointed as the faithful and discreet slave. Not long before my family started shunning me I tried to point out this to them, telling them about Russell and the pyramid thing and all the other ridiculous stuff he was teaching, but my sister just said to me "haven't we (JWs) moved on from there!". Typical witness, head in the sand about what they actually believe, response. But in my opinion there is too much knowledge out there today about the origins of the witnesses that the WTS will have to try and distance themselves from it. Just my take.
Hopscotch
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No One Should Be Made to Choose ..LIES from July 09 Awake
by Hopscotch inthe following quote is taken from the article is it wrong to change your religion?
in the july 2009 awake p29:
no one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.
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Hopscotch
Ziddinia - The article about the Mennonites that Scully was referring to is possibly the Sept 1 2005 entitled "Mennonites Search for Bible Truth". Here is some information from this article along with some direct quotes.
After describing some of the things that are controlled and forbidden by some Mennonite groups, the article states:
"Many feel oppressed and live in dread of being expelled from the community - a terrible prospect for one who has never experienced life outside"
It then gives the story of John, who saw a copy of the Watchtower magazine and obtained a subscription for it. After he died 10 members of his family met some JW missionaries and started a study. After the first study, this is what the article said happened:
"A few days later, the church elders came to the home of Johns family with an ultimatum for the interested ones. "We heard that Jehovah's Witnesses visited you. You must forbid them to return and unless you hand over their literature to be burned, you face expulsion"......."We cannot do as you ask" replied one of the family heads. How did the elders react? They expelled them for studying the Bible!. This was a cruel blow indeed."
The article then goes on to describe the hardships faced by those that were expelled, such as being dismissed from their job and a wife taken away from her expelled husband.
So according to the Watchtower, this type of punishment is "a terrible prospect" and "a cruel blow" and yet they happily dish it out to any of their own members who want to investigate the Bible using literature from other religions or to those who decide they can no longer follow an organisation that they believe is teaching falsehoods.
Hopscotch
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No One Should Be Made to Choose ..LIES from July 09 Awake
by Hopscotch inthe following quote is taken from the article is it wrong to change your religion?
in the july 2009 awake p29:
no one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.
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Hopscotch
drew sagan - well said. Moral cowards indeed.
Scully - exactly right - the WTS has no accountability to anyone. They make policies and rulings for the R&F that impact on JWs lives to a huge extent, sometimes causing enormous damage to their lives and in some cases even their deaths, and then the society turns around and changes those policies or rulings at the drop of a hat without a thought of apology to those who's lives have been irrepairably damaged by following them. They also seem to be totally unaccountable for the lies and hypocrisy that they spew forth such as this Awake article.
passwordprotected - hopefully your dad will write to Brooklyn and ask for clarification. Be interesting to see what more doublespeak they come up with to justify this article.
boyzone - that's what I am doing at every opportunity - tell as many people as possible about, as you say, 'the blatant dishonesty' of the WTS and the difference between what they tell the public and what actually happens. I have actually had the opportunity to talk about this in the last couple of months to quite a few people and they have all been shocked to hear what really goes on inside JW land. I tell them that I was one for 40 years so they know what I am saying is genuine. One person I met actually had a couple of witness girls calling on her and had just started a study with them when I had a couple of really good chats with her about it. She said that the girls were really friendly and had told her they were calling on her as friends. She was horrified to learn what really goes on and the implications in your life of becoming a witness, as well as the fact that these girls weren't really being her friend, they had an agenda of getting her to study. She was also horrified to hear about my family shunning me. Needless to say she stopped the study and thanked me for informing her of this.
Amha'aret - I like the 'inoculate' thing. But that's really what we're trying to accomplish. And as you say you tell someone, they tell one or two and on it goes. Slowly slowly the word is spreading.
Hopscotch
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No One Should Be Made to Choose ..LIES from July 09 Awake
by Hopscotch inthe following quote is taken from the article is it wrong to change your religion?
in the july 2009 awake p29:
no one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.
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Hopscotch
boyzone - great result. The thing is that those workmates may also talk about this to their friends and relatives - so more find out about it. Good on you for linking passwordprotected's blog to the BBC christian message board.
passwordprotected - fantastic blog
isaacaustin - great work with the emails. Lets hope some of them get read.
besty - as you say if it helps just one JW wake up and get out then that is a fantastic outcome.
Hopscotch
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No One Should Be Made to Choose ..LIES from July 09 Awake
by Hopscotch inthe following quote is taken from the article is it wrong to change your religion?
in the july 2009 awake p29:
no one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.
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Hopscotch
Hobo Ken - that is so true what you say about shunning probably being the most emotive issue affecting ex JWs accross the board. I was thinking that a youtube video using this article and comparing it to say the new 'bookstudy' book (can't remember the name of it at the moment) that has pretty straight guidlines in the appendix about shunning family members who leave the WT and also some of the watchtower magazines that have it in black and white what the real policy of the WT is on this issue, might be quite effective. I know password protected has made some videos and also there is the watchtower comments videos and there are no doubt a few others, so maybe someone might be able to do this. Just thought the more people know about this cruel policy the better.
Hopscotch