Posts by diamondiiz

179

The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet

by The Quiet One in

regarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.

but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.

that would clearly have been a mistake.

diamondiiz

re: Oct 15 1913, pg. 303-307

Maybe look at older pubs. What you are doing is lying to yourself by ignoring the facts. Russell preached and taught publicly that 1914 was the end rather than the beginning and he taught that for a long time. As 1914 was drawing closer, he start to have doubts and this was shown in the publication closer to 1914, as he revised some publications to read 1915 from 1914 and started to make a way out for himself if nothing happened in 1914.

This is similar to what wts did with 1975 when they blamed the r&f and said they never said the end would come in 1975 which is somewhat true. What they did though was they strongly implied 1975 and made r&f read between the lines enough that they were praising those suckers who sold homes and went preaching their shit only to be disappointed because nothing happened in the marked year only to be blamed for mis-reading what wts was saying.

If you cannot publicly reject a teaching within a congregation then you can assume that the teaching is on the level coming from God which means it equals a message from a prophet and if it fails it's false = false prophecy!

179

The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet

by The Quiet One in

regarding what some have said here about the wt being a false prophet.. i would like to make my point regarding the wt not being a false prophet... so please, if you can be patient enough to read this, at least try to understand what i am getting at.. a false prophet is one who, according to deuteronomy, makes a false prediction of the future and claims that the prediction came from god, or in other words claiming that 'god has said he will do a certain thing at a certain time' etc.. for example, hypothetically speaking, if someone had claimed: "god will bring about the end of the world in 2010", they would have been proven to be a false prophet, obviously.

but, as an example, imagine a man who claimed the position of a prophet of god, (as moses did, because although he was not the type of prophet that predicted the future.. he was still a prophet or spokesman for god) and that he had publicised worldwide, according to his interpretation of a (for example) prophecy found in the book of isaiah, that the world would end in 2010.. and he had also stated that he was not saying that god will end the world in that year.. but only that there was biblical evidence that god might do so.

that would clearly have been a mistake.

diamondiiz

Maybe you should re-was examine wts. WTS said that they are GOD directed. 1914 was the end not the beginning. 1925 was more biblically sound than 1914. 1975 end of 6000 years, we're not saying the end will come but you brothers know.... (read between the lines)

All these sort of things equal to prophesying. Because these things are being taught and preached outside of a circle of friends where you could claim you were speculating. Also no one is allowed to publicly disagree with these sort of teaching or they will get disfellowshipped for apostasy. When you go in the public and open your big mouth to the world and say that 1914 is the end while claiming to represent God, you act as a prophet.

Prophet is a messenger of God, and wts has that in print, which they applied it to themselves - I would have to find the article if necessary. Deu. can be applied to wts end of story. If you can't see it, then it's your problem not ours.

2

1260 & 2520 day false prediction charts from GTR - C.O.Jonsson

by diamondiiz in

for any lurkers or those doing research, these charts may help you with how many people tried and failed at reading into numbers in the bible.

table 1: the multiple, shifting applications of the 1,260 yearsexpositorpublicationapplicationremarks date (all dates c.e.

)joachim of floris119511260.

diamondiiz

For any lurkers or those doing research, these charts may help you with how many people tried and failed at reading into numbers in the bible

TABLE 1: THE MULTIPLE, SHIFTING APPLICATIONS OF THE 1,260 YEARS
Expositor	Publication	Application	Remarks date (all dates C.E.)

Joachim of Floris	1195	1–1260
Arnold of Villanova	1300 c.	74–1364	Gentile Times=1290 years
Walter Brute	1393	134–1394
Martin Luther	1530	38–1328	Gentile times =1290 years
A. Osiander	1545	412–1672
J.Funck	1558	261–1521
G. Nigrinus	1570	441–1701
Aretius	1573	312–1572
John Napier	1593	316–1576
D. Pareus	1618	606–1866
J. Tillinghast	1655	396–1656
J. Artopaeus	1665	260–1520
Cocceius	1669	292–1552
T. Beverley	1684	437–1697
P. Jurieu	1687	454–1714
R. Fleming, Jr.	1701	552–1794	1260 years of 360 days
""	1701	606–1848	= 1242 Julian years
William Whiston	1706	606–1866
Daubuz	1720	476–1736
J. Ph. Petri	1768	587–1847
Lowman	1770	756–2016
John Gill	1776	606–1866
Hans Wood	1787	620–1880
J. Bicheno	1793	593–1789
A. Fraser	1795	756–1998	1242 Julian years
George Bell	1796	537–1797
""	1796	553–1813
Edward King	1798	538–1798
Galloway	1802	606–1849	1242 Julian years
W. Hales	1803	620–1880
G. S. Faber	1806	606–1866
W. Cuninghame	1813	533–1792
J. H. Frere	1815	533–1792
Lewis Way	1818	531–1791
W. C. Davis	1818	588–1848
J. Bayford	1820	529–1789
John Fry	1822	537–1797
John Aquila Brown	1823	622–1844	1260 lunar years

The table shows a sample of the many different applications of the 1,260 and 1,290 “year-days” from Joachim of Floris in 1195 to John Aquila Brown in 1823. It would have been easy to extend the table to include expositors after Brown. However, the table ends with him because at this time another interpretation of the Gentile times began to surface, in which the 1,260 years were doubled to 2,520 years.

TABLE 2: APPLICATIONS OF THE 2,520 (OR 2,450) YEAR

Expositor	Date	Publication	Application BCE–CE	Comments

John Aquila Brown	1823	The Even-Tide . . .	604–1917	= “Seven times” of Daniel 4
William Cuninghame	1827	Dialogues on Prophecy, Vol.1	728–1792	Report of the prophetic conferences
Henry Drummond	1827	” ” ”	722–1798	at Albury Park
S. Faber	1828	The Sacred Calendar of Prophecy	657–1864
Alfred Addis	1829	Heaven Opened	680–1840
William Digby	1831	A Treatise on the 1260 Days	723–1793
W. A, Holmes	1833	The Time of the End	685–1835
Matthew Habershon	1834	A Dissertation . . .	677–1843
John Fry	1835	Unfulfilled Prophecies . . .	677–1843
William W. Pym	1835	A Word of Warning . . .	673–1847
William Miller	1842	The First Report . . .	677–1843
Th. R. Birks	1843	First Elements of Sacred Prophecy	606–1843	Gentile times = 2,450 years
B. Elliott	1844	Horae Apocalypticae, Vol. 111	727–1793
” ” ”	1844	” ” ”	606–1914	A second alternative
Matthew Habershon	1844	An Historical Exposition	676–1844
” ” ”	1844	” ” ”	601–1919	A second alternative
William Cuninghame	1847	The Fulfilling . . .	606–1847	Gentile times = 2,452 years
James Halley Frere	1848	The Great Continental Revolution	603–1847	Gentile times = 2,450 years
Robert Seeley	1849	An Atlas of Prophecy	606–1914	Counted from “606 or 607”
” ” ”	1849	” ” ”	570–1950	A second alternative
” ” ”	1849	” ” ”	728–1792	A third alternative
Edward Bickersteth	1850	A Scripture Help	727–1793	Another of his calculations
” ” ”	1850	” ” ”	602–1918	was 677-1843
Anonymous	1856	The Watch Tower	727 –1793	A pamphlet
Richard C. Shimeall	1859	Our Bible Chronology	652–1868
J. S. Phillips	1865	The Rainbow, March 1,	652–1867	A London periodical edited
”J. M. N.”	1865	” ” April 1,	658/47–1862/73	by William Leask
Frederick W. Farrar	1865	” ” November 1	654–1866
Anonymous	1870	The Prophetic Times, December,	715–1805	A periodical edited by Joseph A.
”	1870	” ” ” ”	698–822	Seiss et al. These are some
”	1870	” ” ” ”	643–1877	examples; the writer gives twelve
”	1870	” ” ” ”	606–1914	different alternatives!
”	1870	” ” ” ”	598–1922
Joseph Baylee	1871	The Times of the Gentiles	623–1896
”P. H. G.”		The Quarterley Journal of		A London periodical edited by Horatius
” ” ”	1871	Prophecy, April,	652/49–1868/71	Bonar
Edward White	1874	Our Hope, June,	626–1894	A London periodical edited by Wm. Maude
N. H. Barbour	1875	Herald of the Morning, Sept & Oct.,	606–1914	Periodical published by Nelson H. Barbour
C. T. Russell	1876	The Bible Examiner, October,	606–1914	Edited by George Storrs
E. H. Tuckett	1877	The Rainbow, August,	651/50–1869/70
M. P. Baxter	1880	Forty Coming Wonders, 5th ed.	695–1825
” ” ”	1880	” ” ” ”	620–1900	A second alternative
Grattan Guinness	1886	Light for the Last Days	606–1915	These are only some of his many, diverse
” ” ”	1886	” ” ” ”	604–1917	analyses
” ” ”	1886	” ” ” ”	598–1923
” ” ”	1886	” ” ” ”	587–1934
W. E. Blackstone	1916	The Weekly Evangel, May 13	606–1915	This article sums up his viewpoints as
” ” ”	1916	” ” ” ”	595–1926	published many years earlier
” ” ”	1916	” ” ” ”	587–1934

135

Ouija Board Hysteria

by Megachusen in

jw
friends

i always wondered why jw's were always so afraid of ouija(pronounced as "wee-yaw" not "wee-gee") boards.

does anyone have any speculation about who started these jw myths?.

anyone who has actually tried the board and would like to give their opinions are welcome.

diamondiiz

Questions:

Spirits need an alphabet made on a board to communicate? Why couldn't they communicate using a computer? Couldn't they simple type out their answers?

If asked who god is, would they respond Jehovah to Jehovah believer and Allah to a muslim or Jesus to a trinitarian?

Spirits need our invitation to make ouija board piece move why can't they move a computer mouse if I invite a spirit to do so?

Why do people need to hold the pointer piece when stories abound with spirits opening cupboards and moving objects, spirits can't move the pointer by themselves?

Do they work for atheists or for believes only?

Why are they so elusive that science can't prove their existence? Big Foot of the spirit realm?

If they can possess people why don't we ever hear of these events on the local news

and so on.....

I just find it odd that a spirit needs to be invited through a toy board with alphabet, they can move things but can't talk and are seem real to believers. Just some things that make me wonder about this whole ouija board business ;)

29

COC in public libraries

by diamondiiz in

i haven't researched this but do library have copies of this book?

did you ever look for coc or any other book in a local library when you were a believer or when you began to have doubts?

how hard is it to find this book in a public library?.

diamondiiz

I haven't researched this but do library have copies of this book?
Did you ever look for COC or any other book in a local library when you were a believer or when you began to have doubts?
How hard is it to find this book in a public library?
Would you of have you donate(d) your old copy and do you think dubs would make the book "disappear" if they found it in the library?

I was thinking of donating my copy to the local library as I have a pdf copy and really won't read the book again but it might be more useful to curious JWs, or those with doubts or even outsiders who might find it interesting to learn about the inner workings of the cult. It might do more good sitting on a library shelf than on my shelf. Opinions welcome.

22

How Dangerous Is Putin?

by scotoma in

jw
friends

russia is facing the same dilemma that the dictators in the middle east have been facing.. in the middle east the leaders have tried to kill or at least beat up demonstrators.

this hasn't worked.. putin has been watching this and he has been opposed to the west getting involved.

he no doubt knows what the consequences.

diamondiiz

The public doesn't care who rules as long as they have a so called satisfying lives. We seen a small part of US protests against the wall street, they'll be back bigger and stronger - has nothing to do with the man at the top. The bigger violent demonstrations like in Egypt and Syria, has to do with standards of living and people's perception that they can get someone better. If EU doesn't do something soon Greece protests will spread and get more violent. US will follow. Positive thing is we're seeing history being made as the shift in human outlook of the world is taking place and what kind on financial system with political powers we will have in the future will play itself out in front of our very eyes. 2012 might be one hell of a year, maybe more memorable than 9/11 for all of us.

120

Do YOU Believe That JWs Have A Huge Problem With Pedophiles?

by minimus in

i don't think there are more pedophiles in the religion than there are in others.. i understand that one is too many.

but i think some believe that it's an epidemic within the organization.

i believe their 2 witness rule can help pedophiles secretly abuse kids.. but i don't think that this particular crime dominates those in the religion.. .

diamondiiz

How many children are abused and neglected in the United States? (annual stats)

135,000 child victims of sexual abuse in US

2006 American population, 299,000,000

ratio = 4.5 children sexually abused per 10,000 population or 0.00045%. Also have to remember that 1 pedophile can have multiple victims so you don't need 4 pedophiles per 100 congregations but just 1 or 2.

Didn't do a deep research but simple stats for 2006. 1-5% of population molesting children is unfounded. Without having the full context of his claim it's impossible to determine what he was talking about. To say 1-5% of general population molest their kids is quite outrages if you ask me.

BTW, you quoting Russell isn't going to get you any brownie points either because today's watchtower doesn't give a shit about what Russell taught. Russell may have had crazy ideas but his crazy views were 100% better than that of wts today. If wts today followed Russell's teachings people would be allowed to have their own views, people wouldn't have to accept the leaders as God's appointed and people wouldn't have to believe in BS dates. You create a cult atmosphere, you encourage cover-ups so the flock doesn't find out.

120

Do YOU Believe That JWs Have A Huge Problem With Pedophiles?

by minimus in

i don't think there are more pedophiles in the religion than there are in others.. i understand that one is too many.

but i think some believe that it's an epidemic within the organization.

i believe their 2 witness rule can help pedophiles secretly abuse kids.. but i don't think that this particular crime dominates those in the religion.. .

diamondiiz

”We would not refuse to treat one as a brother because he did not believe the Society is the Lord's channel.
If others see it in a different way, that is their privilege. There should be full liberty of conscience.”

To quote this tells me you're deluding yourself. You're quoting old old theology that has no place in today's wts. This light is so old, they forgot all about it, that's why it's not on your WTS CD-Rom.

This thread exists because there is so many victims of wts, and there are pedophiles that are allowed in. The fact that so many here known of a pedophile within their old congregation or someone that was molested by a witness tells you that this problem is greater than that of a general population.

1. Policies cannot be administered by uneducated class of elders who have hard time keeping their own homes in order.

2. WTS are hypocrites, there is no doubt about it. In fact people that understand the false teaching and preaching that have occurred for decades and continue to participate and distributing deceitful propaganda like the Oct and Nov watchtowers dealing with 607 are no better than the liars at the top.

Imagining that there are few renegade elders while ignoring the fact that these are directed by wts and supposedly guided by holy spirit won't fly here. Few elders named in the lawsuits doesn't represent many that dealt with thousands of these cases and yet still ignored to call the proper authorities tells us that the problem is deeply rooted involving more than just a few renegade elders. WTS follows rules that are only beneficial to them while they have no problem sacrificing it's followers in the name of "religion".

27

Satanists have Longer Life Expectancy?

by shaii in

jw
friends

i'm curious about which is the healthier choice: satanism or jehovahs witnesses?

it seems to me that you hear alot less about satanists having problems, than you do witnesses!

diamondiiz

Different people view satanism differently, similar to that of christianity. Here's some info on Chuch of Satan. Though movies usually potray the dark side of occult.

Beliefs

The Church of Satan does not worship or support a belief in the Devil or other supernatural entities. "My real feeling is that anybody who believes in supernatural entities on some level is insane. Whether they believe in The Devil or God, they are abdicating reason," said Peter Gilmore. [ 3 ] Gilmore defines the word Satan: "Satan is a model or a mode of behavior. Satan in Hebrew means 'adversary' or 'opposer'; one who questions." [ 3 ]

Satanists within the Church of Satan adhere to these as guidelines on how to live. However, it is important to remember that Satanists generally do not view the Satanic sins, statements, and rules of the earth as things that one must go out of their way to do. The Satanist ideally sees these things as truisms and how they naturally live their lives, as opposed to a Christian or Jew, who would strive to follow the words of Christ or the mitzvot, respectively.

The Nine Satanic Statements [ 11 ]

The Nine Satanic Statements outline what "Satan" represents in the Church of Satan: [ 12 ]

Satan represents indulgence instead of abstinence.
Satan represents vital existence instead of spiritual pipe dreams.
Satan represents undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit.
Satan represents kindness to those who deserve it instead of love wasted on ingrates.
Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek.
Satan represents responsibility to the responsible instead of concern for psychic vampires.
Satan represents man as just another animal, sometimes better, more often worse than those that walk on all-fours, who, because of his "divine spiritual and intellectual development", has become the most vicious animal of all.
Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification.
Satan has been the best friend the Church has ever had, as He has kept it in business all these years.

[edit] The Nine Satanic Sins [ 13 ]

22

TRY AGAIN - QUESTION: HOW HAVE FRANZ'S BOOKS HELPED YOU?

by binadub in

jw
friends

apologies all.

my questions did not appear in the body of the first post and i didn't know the reason.

thanks leavingwt for informing me that another drawback of the new internet explorer is that it is not compatible with jwd.

diamondiiz

1. If you haven't done any research all 3 books are excellent. I liked Jonsson's book the best.

2. ya

3. no thanks

4. no

5. depends what stage the individual is in. If the individual isn't afraid to ask questions from "apostates" that would be it. Otherwise, internet research or books.

6. no other than there is 7 self righteous stooges in the tower