Posts by Cadellin

18

Cadellin Gets Confronted by Parents

by Cadellin in

well, i knew it was only a matter of time before my parents confronted me on my "loss of spirituality" (their term).

i love them dearly and would rather cut off an arm than hurt them, so i was hoping (naively) that my so far successful fade might escape their notice.

we live about an hour apart so my lack of theocratic activity would go unnoticed.

Cadellin

Wobble and Palm: yes, you're totally right; they do love me and I understand their motivation totally. Thank you for your comfort; it helps TREMENDOUSLY to know I'm not alone.

Little sister: Yup, you're right as well--I could see the cult mentality kick in, honestly! And they both just glided over my explanation as if it were insubstantive. Thank you for being here.

Mickey Mouse: I'm not completely sure about that. I think its probably true with most but the ultra-zealous? I tried to slide around any ultimatums--and my dad did, at one point, as "Do you believe the Bible is the Word of God?" I'd been pretty honest up to then but at that point I felt the irresistible need to throw them a bone (okay, I hate that expression but it works) and so I said, "Well, I think so.." Damn it! Yup, I LIED. Just to make them feel a little better.

Besty: I appreciate you sharing that with me. Doesn't make me feel any better... It's really a no-win situation, as you point out. I was really DUMB to think I could find my way around it.

Thank you all; You mean more to me than you know. Mad, can you do me a coin trick????

10

New discovery.

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

what do you make of this?.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8583254.stm.

Cadellin

I think its an exciting, though not terrible unexpected discovery. Technological advances in mining ancient DNA--which have been significant over the last decade--are going to make the hominin family tree a lot more detailed and it makes perfect sense to find that our species was as diverse as any other. Still, the information gleanable from mDNA is limited--I'm looking forward to seeing what the x-woman's nuclear DNA will reveal, if, in fact, any is salvageable.

I wonder if the "new" Creation book supposedly due out this summer will have a chapter about ancient DNA???

18

Cadellin Gets Confronted by Parents

by Cadellin in

well, i knew it was only a matter of time before my parents confronted me on my "loss of spirituality" (their term).

i love them dearly and would rather cut off an arm than hurt them, so i was hoping (naively) that my so far successful fade might escape their notice.

we live about an hour apart so my lack of theocratic activity would go unnoticed.

Cadellin

Thank you, Mad. I needed to hear that.

Side point: Are you the leprauchan from Gaiman's American Gods?

18

Cadellin Gets Confronted by Parents

by Cadellin in

well, i knew it was only a matter of time before my parents confronted me on my "loss of spirituality" (their term).

i love them dearly and would rather cut off an arm than hurt them, so i was hoping (naively) that my so far successful fade might escape their notice.

we live about an hour apart so my lack of theocratic activity would go unnoticed.

Cadellin

Well, I knew it was only a matter of time before my parents confronted me on my "loss of spirituality" (their term). I love them dearly and would rather cut off an arm than hurt them, so I was hoping (naively) that my so far successful fade might escape their notice. We live about an hour apart so my lack of theocratic activity would go unnoticed. Okay, I'm a coward, too; that played into it.

I'd had a discussion w/my mother about 2 years ago so she was aware of my doubts, but it came to a head this morning. They showed up at my door (after calling me the day before to let me know they'd be by) and, once we were all seated, wanted to know what was going on. Now, let me say that they're both in their mid 70's and extremely zealous--they live and breath by the Society. Well, what could I do? I was as honest as I could be, letting them know the basis of my doubts, the problems with the Creation book, the misrepresentations about the nature of evolution, the baseless claims for the last days, the failed predictions. And it was basically pointless; my dad, who did most of the talking, just kept coming back to "but this is God's organization" and how wonderful and amazing and truthful it was. Oh, and that the Society DOES apologize when it gets something wrong. He didn't address any of my specifics (and honestly, I didn't expect him to) except to say that evolution was a dogma perpertrated by scientists that had a vested interest in keeping the system intact or something of that nature. It's amazing how someone as intelligent as my dad, who loves science, can literally banish an entire field (biology) as entirely misguided and just waiting for some mysterious, inevitable, panacaeic discovery that will turn the entire discipline on its head and prove that humanity was an act of special creation 6,000 years ago.

After that, I just let my dad talk because I love him anyway. He talked for close to 2 hours. My mom said a couple of times, "But can't you just put all your doubts on a shelf, wait for Jehovah to correct them and get on with the preaching work?"

I don't know what's going to happen. At one point, my dad made an allusion to how our actions affect others, including our family, even to the point of continued assocation. I knew what he was intimating and I said, rather adamantly, "I want to be perfectly clear: I haven't DONE anything and I don't SAY anything about any of this to ANYBODY. I don't want to be accused of "teaching falsehoods!" He backed down at that point and admitted that I hadn't and that he wasn't going to repeat any of our conversation to anybody.

Still, there's nothing like the feel of a sword over your head...Damn it, I hate this! There's more but I don't feel like typing right now; I'm feeling a little sick. My fade was going so well, too.

51

how long in truth,,,what was the final "straw"

by peaches in

jw
friends

i was in for 30 years.....my ex was an elder...."holy spirit appointed" he tortured me....i was married 33+ years....you know,,,marriage is sacred...you can leave,,,i know,,,,if abuse is intolerable....but that starts a series of events...etc etc etc....i finally left everything...and moved far away.....people actually believe "holy spirit" appoints people,,,my ex would not pray unless there was an audience...you know,,,,people invited over for supper kind of thing,,,you get the point..... my best friend had a mental breakdown,,,,she basically became psychotic.....had to be hospitalized....she took up smoking,,,got disfellowshipped...and lost all emotional support....to this day,,,,as far as i know,,,she is still disfellowshipped...needs to be hospitialized every so often....she is on complete disability.....and still trying to get back into the org....her mother does support some what,,,,even though she is a witness herself,,,,,takes her to assemblies,,,,memorial,,,etc,,,,this has gone on for years.....she cannot mentally handle the organization,,,nor can she mentally handle not being a witness...lost everything....guilt....etc..... did not mean to ramble on so much......i have mental scars that will not go away....because i stayed in a "mess" for god,,,,i could write page after page of things like the above....as being my "last straw".......curious about you here on the board....any specific "breaking point" or a collection of many things..... thanks for your in put...peaches.

Cadellin

It's been said before, but I'll second it--what a great thread! For me, I was raised in, bap at 15, reg pio through my 20's, married a sweet, spiritual Bethel boy, everything great but like sd-7 said, I'd get these whispers, often while I was reading a script at the door. A little voice inside me would be saying, "You know, I don't think this is what this scrip means..." or I'd read something in the mags about womanly submission and cringe. But I was able to silence the doubts UNTIL--

I started reading some of the source material listed in the Creation book's bibliography and realized that most of the quotes were taken badly out of context. The blatant dishonesty stopped me in my tracks; it was like Neo waking up in the liquid-filled pod with tubes coming out of him, gasping for air (Matrix, in case you're wondering). After that, I started researching for real, for serious. And the whole house of cards came tumbling down. The UN thing was a biggie, too, because I didn't learn about it from an "apostate" site () but from the UN website itself.

So what now? I'm fading and inactive. I go to a few meetings for the sake of that sweet, spiritual Bethel boy I married, whom I still love passionately. He knows how and why I feel as I do and he's accepted it, but won't be persuaded that it's still not "the Truth." We have peace, at least for now.

39

RUSSIA: Raids, literature confiscations and criminal case in Tambov--first such reported home raids against them since the Soviet era--Forum 18 News Service reports

by cattails in

22 march 2010. russia: raids, literature confiscations and criminal case in tambov.

by geraldine fagan, forum 18 news service , and felix corley, forum 18 news service .

russia has raided three flats of jehovah's witnesses in tambov in the first such reported home raids against them since the soviet era, forum 18 news service has learnt.

Cadellin

We expect the government to shut down fringe cults that have children married off to the leaders.
Well, the JW's are dangerous to children, perhaps just as much in the long term.

But in the case you reference, the persons who had endangered the children were arrested for their specific actions, not necessarily for their beliefs. Moreover, anyone, whether extremist Mormon or not, who married a child for whatever reason, would suffer the same consequences. It sounds like these arrests in Russia were made purely for having the WT and AW on the premises. I think there's an important difference. Legal repercussions should be on the basis of activity, not beliefs, whether in print or spoken. This is an integral part both of free speech and freedom of worship, something with which Russia has a long and troubled history. If Russian authorities have concerns over whether JW's break up families or whether children are dying b/c of the blood issue, then these specifics should be addressed through the appropriate legal structure, not through totalitarian harassment of private citizens.

As another poster noted, who's next? Actions like these in Russia are all too often the harbinger of harsher oppression against all kinds of groups who happen to be out of the mainstream. Violations of human rights are violations of all our rights, no matter where it happens and no matter whether we happen to share a belief system or not.

63

Yay for Womanhood! Female Min.Serv's under consideration.

by cattails in

the "priscilla" deliberations.. gb subcommittees now re-considering role of women in the organization.. example of phoebe as "diakonos" revisited.. could women be appointed to ministerial servant positions in view of the need in congregations?.

what's your take on latest rumors?

http://www.extjforo.com/foro/showthread.php?t=14821.

Cadellin

I heard from a close family relative that at their last CA, the CO gave a talk encouraging elders to loosen up when it came to appointing MS's as new elders, that it would be okay for a young MS of 23 or 24 to be appointed as an elder if he was doing all the right things. I would say that the Society is scrambling to find enough male leaders, given the influx of new JWs is predominantly women and (in the Spanish congs) the vast majority of JW males are also illegals.

Interestingly, on that last fact, I heard from another relative who's an elder in a Spanish cong that they just got a letter from the branch ALSO encouraging them to loosen up when it came to what illegals could do in the cong. They (men, of course) can now handle mikes and a few other things along those lines. Interesting--desperate measures to ameliorate the significant gender imbalance!!

As far as women becoming Ministerial Servants Lite, I'd have to see it to believe it. Can't have those wimmin gittin' all uppity and thinkin' they might be equal!!

35

Question From Readers reveals dependent state of JWs

by sd-7 in

jw
friends

just consider some of the questions i found, not worrying about the responses:.

***w50 12/1 p.496 questions from readers***.

in view of what deuteronomy 4:15-23 has to say about the making of any graven image, would it be considered scripturally correct.

Cadellin

At least the questions from the 1950's sound like a real person might be asking them. For the last couple of years, the QFR have been canned, recycled topics that can be easily answered by referring to the appropriate topic in the "Bible Teach" book, along the lines of "Does the Bible teach that all good people go to heaven?" It's basically become just another article.

60

April 15th WT/ Generation - MORE Points/ Mind Control by WT Society

by flipper in

jw
friends

we all chewed on this article pretty well when the news first came out about the " overlapping anointed " concept , however we discussed so much on just those 2 paragraphs dealing with the new " generation " theory - that almost the rest of the article was overlooked .

our lurking inactive jw friend on the board sent us a copy of the april 15th.

i think you folks may find this interesting.. on pg.

Cadellin

BILLY: (I'm channeling Flipper now) Thanks for reminding me about major doctrine that has quietly been allowed to wander off into the desert of obscurity. I think you've nailed a primary WT strategy: Don't mention it and sheep will forget. Then, after a suitably long interval, it can be trotted out as an example of "old light," along with some illogical and/or symbolic explanation of what it "really" means... Blech.

60

April 15th WT/ Generation - MORE Points/ Mind Control by WT Society

by flipper in

jw
friends

we all chewed on this article pretty well when the news first came out about the " overlapping anointed " concept , however we discussed so much on just those 2 paragraphs dealing with the new " generation " theory - that almost the rest of the article was overlooked .

our lurking inactive jw friend on the board sent us a copy of the april 15th.

i think you folks may find this interesting.. on pg.

Cadellin

FLIPPER: You are such a nice guy to respond to each poster individually. That takes a lot of work...