Posts by mindmelda

12

What could I call a blog concerning questions about noah and suchlike?

by badboy in

jw
friends

any ideas?.

"Wow. This is really offensive."

by Kudra in

jw
friends

that is what one of my jw facebook friendss typed as a comment to my "what kingdom hall asshole are you?

" fb quiz result.. i replied that it is just a joke but i will take it down if it insults my friends!.

here is the link to the thread i made about the quiz here on jwn:.

mindmelda

LOL...the PO's wife fits every PO's wife I've ever known.

Well, I've known about four of them and none one could get through a social evening without about 6 drinky poos!

67

My Weak Agnostic Testimony

by besty in

in terms of faith i have decided to give the invisible characters a rest for the time being.

the last set i had weren't really adding any value, and right now i'm happy with more rational answers to life's mysteries.. in my opinion religion was an early attempt to answer these mysteries and so inevitably we are accelerating towards a post-religious world.

when technology allows us to extend our lives as long as we wish, the need for salvation via invisible magic diminishes.it seems to me that religion is deeply influenced by parental authority and cultural norms.

mindmelda

Besty, every atheist I've ever talked to didn't believe in God because they had no tangible evidence of him.

I'm agreeing with that:"there's no probability driven by evidence" for the existence of God. There's also not a sufficient amount of evidence for me NOT to believe, either.

I'm sure that's why the Bible says that faith is not the possession of all people. Its pretty obvious to me it isn't. Just look around...thousands and thousands of perfectly content atheists, agnostics.

Some people don't seem to either posess faith in the supernatural or need it. No doubt in some situations, that's an advantage.

I personally think two people can look at the same thing and one will see "evidence" of God, and the other will not.

And I thought I offered quite a bit of discussion there! It just didn't seem to suit you that I have nothing to debate you about. I essentially agree with you...belief in the intangible, the mystical and the metaphysical is unprovable by the usual scientific method.

You can't detect God with your senses. You can't create an experiment with controls that will prove beyond all doubt that he exists. If you require that for belief, not only is it not belief, but you will definitely be dissatisfied.

If there was an absolute proof of the existence of God or the lack thereof everyone would have quit debating the existence of God by now because it would have been solved one way or another long ago.

I think that's one of the things that makes it the most fascinating subject ever.

Why is this so very important question unanswerable by the usual methods by which we solve problems? That alone is something you can talk about for hours!

What makes me a "believer" is purely subjective and lies in instinctive and supernatural experiences. I have what I think are supernatural experiences and have had them all my life. That's the only way I can categorize them. (Yes, I've been tested for mental illess. LOL )

I'm guessing you have not had these sorts of experiences or have found other explanations that are more satisfying for you.

Being religious or spiritual may simply have to do with having a different mental set up than people who aren't. But whatever causes it, I'm stuck with it.

I tried really hard to be an agnostic for a while because I thought it would be more rational and rationality would make my life simpler and better, because some people do seem to be promising that, and I'll try anything once, twice if I like it. I wasn't abjectly miserable or anything, but I did experience the almost constant feeling that something or SOMEONE was missing from my life.

I believe that is spiritual yearning. I have no idea why I have it, but it seems I must fulfill it.

41

Witnesses claim Ressurected folks have no genitals? This will start the 1,000 year rebellion!

by Witness 007 in

that really sucks!

not much of a "paradise" for me, being a eunich for all eternity!

they dont "marry" or do anything.

mindmelda

I think they're saying it'd be an upgrade to be made into a man if you're a woman. Man, they really are the he-man woman haters club!

Either that or the guy that read that was really oddly gay and their idea of paradise was a world full of nothing but men.

But, no wangs?

And just think of all the JWs that died childless thinking maybe they could have their family in the New World. I guess not, huh?

57

What are you reading right now?

by keyser soze in

jw
friends

i'm reading the trial, by franz kafka.

pretty interesting read so far, though i'm only about 90 pages into it.

it's about a man who is arrested, but no one will tell him what he's been charged with, or give him any information at all.

mindmelda

The Lord of the Rings trilogy, and a mystery novel.

15

Open Minded Christians?

by homeschool in

jw
friends

does anyone know if there is such a thing as a christian church that loves and appreciates jesus, but also recognizes that it is purely a culteral thing and also acknowledges other religions as truth?

are unitarians like this?

i'm getting to the point where i'd really like to find a group like this.

mindmelda

I've found there are Universalists, which is what you're describing, in almost all faiths. I'm a Universalist in that

But what you describe you would find among UUs. They're hugely into secular humanism and appeal to rationalists. Even my atheist friend feels quite comfortable in a typical UU service.

There are over 200 Baptist sects of all ilks...from the very liberal to the fundamentalist. If you found a fundamentalist sect, you probably weren't too happy with it if you want ecumencism or Universalism...an acknowlegement of truth in all faiths. The fundamentalist (also known as the Religious Right in their political incarnation) movement is not known for that.

67

My Weak Agnostic Testimony

by besty in

in terms of faith i have decided to give the invisible characters a rest for the time being.

the last set i had weren't really adding any value, and right now i'm happy with more rational answers to life's mysteries.. in my opinion religion was an early attempt to answer these mysteries and so inevitably we are accelerating towards a post-religious world.

when technology allows us to extend our lives as long as we wish, the need for salvation via invisible magic diminishes.it seems to me that religion is deeply influenced by parental authority and cultural norms.

mindmelda

Besty, one of my best friends for the last 15 years that I AIM almost every day is a weak agnostic like yourself. She has a masters in education and is one of the brightest people I know.

We've talked about the implausibilty and plausibility of belief for 15 years now, and we're still the best of friends...and I'm still a believer in God (although my beliefs have evolved considerably) and she's still a 'weak agnostic' but now with a recent leaning to paganism.

When I was a JW, it was of course my goal to convert, convince, and debate with people to try to make them worship God, or "Jehovah".

I have no such needs now. My beliefs are personal, and yes, to some degree explicable because all spiritual belief is and just because Christ is the face of God that resonates with me does not mean it will be so for everyone.

I understand the need for rationality and order in one's life, and where it's important, for mundane matters, I believe in science, rationality, order and logic.

However, I seem to have this undeniable need to believe in the metaphysical, the unprovable, and the mystical. It could just be a brain glitch that all people with this need share, but nonetheless, I have the need. So, I address it sanely and have my religion between me and my God, Christ. I don't annoy others with it, I don't impose it on others, and I certainly don't feel the need to deconstruct other's beliefs, philosophies and ideas for them anymore.

I don't think that's what Christ or his apostles and disciples did. They merely presented their views in a public forum and then engaged those who responded. They didn't chase strangers down to private homes and barrage them with unwanted religious messages or inane pamphlets for a contribution, that's for sure!

I'm well aware of the doubts many have of the historical Christ. I'm an avid reader, and if you read my post above, I looked into everything that was available to me. I read the works of atheists, considered their points of view too. (Just like believers, no two atheists are on the same page either...they all have quite individual arguments against the existence of God.)

I'm probably the opposite of a Biblical literalist anymore. I love and appreciate the metaphor and the allegorical value of the Bible and haven't felt for some time that it's a literalistic guidebook that covers everything in life.

The Bible as myth or truth are not mutual exclusives to me, for I feel there is profound spiritual truth in myth. Probably in all myth. Millions of people lived and died on this planet without ever hearing of Christ or the Bible or the Ten Commandments, and yet, they developed spiritual myths that had power in their lives and had profound effect on civilization and had significant parallels to Christian myth. That fact is of more interest to me that worrying about everyone's destiny or salvation and feeling I have to "fix" everyone who has a different spiritual experience than I do, or that I need to force feed a specific spirituality to people with no apparent need for it.

Christ and the Bible is merely the spiritual myth that I understand best, that makes me feel connected to the metaphysical world, the divine, to God. I have no doubt that it's other myths for others.

You seem to mistake my comment about Muslims as an attempt to prove the superiority of Christainity over Islam. I'm not a JW anymore with this burning need to disprove all other religions so that my own faith will remain intact. That is not the basis of faith. Who am I to judge the sincerity, faith and godliness of millions of Muslims? For that matter, who am I to judge the sincerity, faith and godliness of millions of JWs? I have no interest in replacing or refuting or on the other hand proving God or the gods of others! And who am I to judge people that belief does not affect? I certainly don't feel superior to them.

If what religion is for some is about is feeling superior to all the other poor slobs who are "wrong" or to those who exist without it, then what a silly thing it is! It becomes nothing but institutionalized spiritual bigotry and a spiritual pissing contest. And no doubt, there are many who mainly participate for that very reason.

My spiritual journey is about continuing to discover my own intimacy with God now, nothing more. I only share it if people ask me to or with the like minded if we're in the mood. It's so wonderful not to have to try to shove religion down people's throats anymore, don't you agree?

In other words, you're demanding that I defend my faith, and it needs no defending, because it has nothing to do with your agnosticism. The rational standards of science and the process of logic are admittedly a poor fit to the metaphysical, it's by it's very definition inexplicable and outside of the laws of known physical science and rationality.

I consider it an irrational request to even ask someone to "prove" their faith now. It's a paradox! "Please use these rational means to prove the irrational so I can rationalize the irrational." LOL

67

My Weak Agnostic Testimony

by besty in

in terms of faith i have decided to give the invisible characters a rest for the time being.

the last set i had weren't really adding any value, and right now i'm happy with more rational answers to life's mysteries.. in my opinion religion was an early attempt to answer these mysteries and so inevitably we are accelerating towards a post-religious world.

when technology allows us to extend our lives as long as we wish, the need for salvation via invisible magic diminishes.it seems to me that religion is deeply influenced by parental authority and cultural norms.

mindmelda

I agree, most people in an predominately Islamic country would no doubt become Muslim by default. Christianity is the most predominant (but far from the only) religion in America, but there's one thing that is pretty nice about living in a country like America.

It's such a melting pot of cultures that you can investigate a huge variety of belief systems. And it's pretty wide open, so you can do that without fear of reprisal (except if you're a baptized Witness or one of the more nuttier, controlling sects out there!) so I talked to Ba'Hai people for quite a while, with Jews, with some Muslims along the way. I studied astrology and palm reading and still have Wiccan and Pagan friends who have shared their beliefs with me too. One of my friends is a chi master of martial arts. I was interested in it all. I took away gems of wisdom from it all.

I learned that some of these faiths had things I had wanted as a Witness but never gotten from it, like a feeling I was connected to the universe, a feeling of wholeness. They had mysticism, that feeling of how small and insignificant and yet how individual you are in the the universe. They had joy and freedom. They had devotion, modesty of spirit and kindness and peace.

But, I still find the sayings of Christ express it all for me. I don't know if that's cultural conditioning, the only pre-JW contact I had with Christian churches was 3 or 4 rare visits with a friend or relative. My parents never set foot in a church except for an occasional funeral. They were agnostic, healthily skeptical about religion. Jehovah's Witnesses somehow managed to get through that,...they're good at that, as we all know. It well could be I AM influenced by the prevalent Christian culture around me, we are all a product of all we encounter in life, not of the things we do not have opportunity to discover.

I'm still a skeptic, believe it or not. My bullshit o-meter is as high as anyone's is who has learned to recognize who is selling snake oil. I suspected Witnesses were quite a while ago, but I fought it for years, not wanting to believe emotionally what my intellect had discovered and deconstructed.

For me, religion is not so much about who has the most excruciating correct theology, although blatant deception is inexcusable. It's about having the freedom to discuss, interpret and define for oneself what is "the truth" and what isn't. There is an illusion of that freedom among the Witnesses, or at least there was at first, for me. Some other Christian sects also brook no questioning their doctrine or restrictions without censure. Those aren't for me and never will be.

But, that's not what I'm looking for. I want a God that is love, who embodies love, that is all. I want the promised freedom that the truth is supposed to give you that being a Witness denied me.

I will only find that within myself, I'm sure, and discovering that faith can be individual, intimate and personal is wonderful. That's another thing denied me by this awful false sect of Christianity, this distortion of Christ and everything he stood for. That I matter to God as a PERSON. I never had that as a Witness. If I'd had that freedom, that closeness and a true feeling of unconditional love, fatherly love, I'd still be a Witness. But it's not there.

So my spiritual journey took me inward, which is where it is no doubt supposed to. I won't find what I'm looking for in a building, an organization, a church, a mosque, a synagogue or a congregation. I will find it in me and that is something I cannot be disfellowshipped from or separated from. If you're lucky, you will find a few to go on the journey alongside you, to be supportive, to understand, but they can't do it for you.

67

My Weak Agnostic Testimony

by besty in

in terms of faith i have decided to give the invisible characters a rest for the time being.

the last set i had weren't really adding any value, and right now i'm happy with more rational answers to life's mysteries.. in my opinion religion was an early attempt to answer these mysteries and so inevitably we are accelerating towards a post-religious world.

when technology allows us to extend our lives as long as we wish, the need for salvation via invisible magic diminishes.it seems to me that religion is deeply influenced by parental authority and cultural norms.

mindmelda

I tried agnosticism for 3-4 years. It was a lot better than being a Witness.

I went out and investigated everything from astrology to Zen, and I still find I still love Christ, nothing out there has the same appeal for me. I probably will never be a Bible literalist or anything but a crazy mystical liberal type of Christian, but it seems that's what suits me best.

I only need God to be one of the better and more reasonable explanations for the inexplicable and even the explainable to believe he exists.

I don't know why some people have this need to believe in a higher power and some don't but I'm apparently stuck with it. I found agnosticism kind of unfulfilling, but again, still better than the JWs.

I was drawn to religion as a young child, even though my parents where agnostics then and never went to church. I'd go to different ones occasionally with friends and usually loved what I felt there.

I wanted to get that from being a Jehovah's Witness all those years but rarely did. It was drudgery, an emphasis on being productive in a non-spiritual sense, and no joy or spirituality that I ever felt in it. It's a very Nihlistic religion, full of Puritanical legalities and morality, tiresome doctrinal nitpicking, Bible hopscotch (to my shame, I thought I knew the Bible, at least, and it turns out that I know absolutely NOTHING about it except what I've learned from non-JW sources...they carefully edit what they let you know about the Bible, but nearly everyone that studies for 6 months with JW believes they're God's gift to Bible scholarship) and it's just plain old the most joyless religion EVER out there. Even their MUSIC SUCKS HUGELY.

The best thing about most religions is their music and they can't even get that right!

2

interest?

by mouthy in

new release offer.

special offer.

deceived.

mindmelda

I've heard France is about to give Scientology the boot, they're not as tolerant of odd religions there. JWs have had a hard time there too.

Makes me wish I lived in France! LOL

But, seriously, religious fanaticism and religions that demand a high degree of control over followers are being less and less tolerated everywhere. I think that will eventually affect what public policies Witnesses effect and already has.

They've moderated a few things (blood transfusions and neutrality) to avoid lawsuits and government censure already, even if it risks confusing the faithful old timers who are still wondering why some of it has changed. Lawsuits are expensive, that's why!

I always think, If they're going to change anyway, why not change and become a truly Christian religion? LOL See, I still believe in miracles!