Posts by mindmelda

17

Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-28-10 WT Study (SATAN RULILNG)

by blondie in

jw
friends

by means of human rule was sure to fail.

that jehovahs way of governing is.

jehovahs way of governing.

mindmelda

Interesting that the cause of all the trouble, Mr. Satan gets to live a thousand years longer than innocent children who haven't done a thing wrong aside from being born to non JW parents.

You know, I always remembered this woman my mother studied with who quit over that very issue. She just couldn't stomach God killing children for to "vindicate his sovereignty".

I never had an answer for that one, even though I'm sure my mother told her some WTS nonlogic in response that was so ridiculous I can't even recall it. I just remember being stunned at not having an answer for that, because as a teenager, I really did believe that the Witnesses could answer every objection to their teachings.

But, that woman quit studying that very day. She was one of the smarter ones.

17

Do You Teach Your Kids that They are Sinful, in Need of Redemption?

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

teaching christian children they are sinful, worthless and in need of redemption .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urspnqzyll8&feature=related.

do children deserve eternal hell?.

mindmelda

The word sin as used in the Bible means simply to err.

We all do that, it's how we learn to improve.

It's the human condition to sin, although it can grieve us at times. I always thought that the idea of that is so simple that some religions needed to twist it into a guilt trip, but that's hardly the message of Christ as I read it.

He basically said not to worry about it, just do your best. And quit beating up other people about it! Forgiveness of both ourselves and others is a very useful life affirming skill. It makes us and everyone else happier and easier to live with.

Simple messages that are workable like this one often get made into something ridiculously complicated and torturous by people who need to twist these things for their own purposes.

37

As Witnesses we were Trained to be Obedient - Rather than Show Love

by flipper in

jw
friends

i can list many examples of this : probably the most glaring thing i saw proving this in 1982 was when an 83 year old sister died of a heart attack on the stage at an assembly part where she gave her experience then sat down next to me and died right on my shoulder on the stage.

i motioned to a brother sitting near me on the stage to help me carry her off the stage - which we did - and the brother and i behind the curtain tried administering cpr.

a registered nurse ran behind the curtain from the audience also - but the annoying thing is the elder giving the talk just kept right on talking to the 3,000 in the audience with no reference to what had just happened !

mindmelda

I remember one sister that everyone praised as being super spiritual when she came and gave a part with a 103 because she had a very serious case of the flu.

She had 5 kids, one of them mentally handicapped, and she was always dragging them around pioneering too. But, the day after the talk, another sister went to see if she was all right (she lived across the street) and found her on the sofa unconscious, barely breathing. She had developed a whopping case of pneumonia.

She called an ambulance, and the ill sister recovered after a few weeks or so, but I remember everyone thinking how wonderful she was for her sacrifice. Of what, her health?

I remember being criticized for staying home with colds and such, but my medical training (I was a CNA at the time) taught me that was stupid, so I ignored the criticism.

Oh, being told by some of these super spiritual types not to grieve overly much after my baby died was one of the things that made me wake up. I was told that it would set a bad example for the worldly people as we're not supposed to grieve like those who don't believe in the resurrection. Right...that unfeeling attitude is so attractive to other people...no wonder they think that Witnesses are nuts!

20

God Created Man Through Evolution

by maputo95 in

i tend to believe that the book of genesis is allegorical and not historic.

the first part including the flood is a creation story similar to many others, although the jewish one has distinct insights into man's relationship with god.

another literary device employed is anthropomorphism or personification as in the talking snake,aka satan.

mindmelda

He's freaking out because OMG, it's the end! Periodically, thinks get sucky and the Dubs all rejoice, thinking it's finally time for Armadillo, but then it passes and nothing happens except that they make more excuses why that wasn't the right time for Armadillo.

But a few who have left or faded or whatever get that same urge to return to the land of the brain dead until they realize that hey, it's not Armadillo and whoops, now I remember why I left this crazyness.

52

Good books against evolution?

by bohm in

jw
friends

after reading 'the greatest show on earth' by dawkins, i have been intrigued by how biblical literalists explain the many findings that seem to support evolution and contradict various parts of the bible.

in doing to i have browsed around on aig but i have generally felt let down by the quality of evidence and interpretations they present.

so i would like to ask all non-evolutionists: if i wanted to learn more about the physical case against evolution, what books should i read?

mindmelda

I've read Darwin on Trial, and while the guy argues so well I'd like to hire him as a lawyer, his scientific arguments are rather specious as he's not a scientist.

But, my field is psychology, (not a hard science, although I like hard science like physics and biology) and one thing I can tell you is that if an idea is deeply held, people will grasp at anything to support it.

The belief in God is deeply personal and gives a lot of people comfort. I myself believe that it's an open question as I can't either prove or disprove God, and have no intention using my remaining brain cells on a futile task. LOL I also get more comfort from bourbon and a nice evening of intelligent conversation with friends (socializing, which is a big reason many people like churches that don't demand that they do overly weird and dangerous things) than the whole god thing, so we all have our little comforts. I don't begrudge people theirs as long as they don't screw me over with it in some way.

However, religion doesn't need God, God needs religion. Religion would exist without the biblical God, it did for a long long time. People seem to have some innate need to believe in God, gods or the higher power, it comforts them, and makes them feel important, gives them structure (sometimes too much!). Humans have a lot of needs that way. They can be met in more rational or secular ways, but restrictive and rigorous religion it is for some. I understand why even if I don't need it myself.

I tend to subscribe to Universalist Unitarianism which means I can believe pretty much what I like as long as it's not harmful, be ecumenical, be spiritual when I like and keep the religious off my back by having a religion to fend them off with. Works for me.

Genesis isn't that bad considering it was written by Bronze Age humans. It's slightly less ridiculous than that Atlas story and a few others. But, scientific, nah. It's rather observational about nature by unscientific people, but not scientific in nature. Was never intended to be. It's a myth for the reinforcement of certain spiritual ideas. (A Reform Rabbi told me this...I figure if you want old testament exposition, go to the Jews...its their book!)

Anyway, one of those spiritual ideas is that man at some point became a spiritual entity, searching for God, or the part of God that is in himself. That's what Adam's creation and subsequently, Eve's represents to the people the myth was written for. It's not a literal story of the actual physical creation of man and woman. Duh.

108

Tea Partiers Say They Would Absolutely Abolish Social Security

by sammielee24 in

jw
friends

please, please, please let the libertarians, republicans and their offshoot the tea party, run on this issue.

oh my heavens what a joy it would be to line up all the runners and tell half of the americans - the vast majority of those who actually live on their social security, that they want to take it away.

abolish it.

mindmelda

It's true that when Social Security was founded back in the 30s, no one ever dreamed the average American life span would be about 76-78 years.

Damned modern medicine!

But, yeah, a definite lack of foresight in running this and several other government programs. And no one president or party is to blame, really. I don't look at it as a finger pointing party, but I can't see how disenfranchising the people who paid into it is exactly fair.

Oh, right...who said life is fair? We'll just tell everyone that. Sorry we spent your money, life isn't fair. Yeah, that'll work.

52

Good books against evolution?

by bohm in

jw
friends

after reading 'the greatest show on earth' by dawkins, i have been intrigued by how biblical literalists explain the many findings that seem to support evolution and contradict various parts of the bible.

in doing to i have browsed around on aig but i have generally felt let down by the quality of evidence and interpretations they present.

so i would like to ask all non-evolutionists: if i wanted to learn more about the physical case against evolution, what books should i read?

mindmelda

Most of the non-evolution books I've read outside of WTS literature either feature the same kind of creationist ideas featured in the WTS publications.

The Witnesses changed their views in the 30 years I was associated. It went from young earth creationism and when that wasn't unique enough because nearly all Evangelicals teach that too, they changed it.

The started allowing for change but not outside of species. Then in the last book they practically took "The Science of God" and other ideas directly from authors with these same views.

Intelligent design composes the basis for most more scientific sounding non-evolution/ creationist writing. It's almost what Witnesses now embrace, if they understood the last creation oriented book, that is. A lot of them don't.

There's no one consensus among creationists, in other words. There are various theories and ideas put forth. You'd have to find out which version they embrace to discuss it and then disprove it point by point.

I agree with you though...the bible creation account is vague enough that it can emcompass a lot of views, including evolution. Evolution and atheism are also not entirely related, I know many Christians of who believe in it (although rarely Evangelicals or Fundamentalists).

Most of these simply believe God used evolution as a tool of creation. That's the old is there a god or not argument, not really evolution, of course.

34

Golden Age Quotes--You have to see it to believe it.

by blondie in

jw
friends

question: will husband and wife live together after the resurrection is completed, if both are in harmony with god?.

answer: the scriptures do not reveal what the relationship of men and women will be after the resurrection is completed.

the most that we know is that there will be no children born during the last 100 years of the millennium (isa.

mindmelda

Gee what a privilege to finally become a man. It's what I've always dreamed of. *sarcasm*

Dr. Freud, I have a bad case of penis envy, what should I do?

Join Jehovah's Witnesses, they promise to give you one in the New System!

108

Tea Partiers Say They Would Absolutely Abolish Social Security

by sammielee24 in

jw
friends

please, please, please let the libertarians, republicans and their offshoot the tea party, run on this issue.

oh my heavens what a joy it would be to line up all the runners and tell half of the americans - the vast majority of those who actually live on their social security, that they want to take it away.

abolish it.

mindmelda

I do understand that. But, um, you be the one who tells everyone that there won't be anymore Social Security after they contributed to it their whole working lives.

I'll be hiding somewhere in my basement until the riots are over.

17

Do You Teach Your Kids that They are Sinful, in Need of Redemption?

by leavingwt in

jw
friends

teaching christian children they are sinful, worthless and in need of redemption .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urspnqzyll8&feature=related.

do children deserve eternal hell?.

mindmelda

Well, religions that are highly controlling need more than love to keep the butts in the seats and you out slaving away for them.

They need fear. So they tend to emphasize fear more and more.

I don't remember my stint with Witnesses starting out that way, but it sure ended up that way. Towards the end of it a few years ago, it was all dire warnings and such for my state of inactivity and how displeased God was with me and how I was going to die, my children and I, at Armageddon.

Not alot of love there, really. Oh, I got occasional, "We love you and want you back." speeches when I would occasionally go to a meeting, but the it was all conditional on how obedient I was to the WTS.

I guess the final straw for me was being told I could NOT just study the Bible without WTS literature. I asked, "Since when?" as I had been studied with that way back in the 80s and 90s. "WE can't do that anymore, the FDS says we can't."

Screw that, I thought. Straw that broke the camels back there. Imagine, an organization that professes such love for the Bible, and they won't let you study it without "accessories".

I remember when they used to ridicule Catholics for not reading the Bible without a catechism book! Boy, things definitely changed...and not for the better.

(By the way, every time I write FDS, I think of that women's deodorant spray called FDS...LOL.)