Posts by allelsefails

16

HOW DO JW'S CONSIDER THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS WHEN THEY DON'T ADHERE TO HIS TEACHINGS IN BIBLE?

by Divawriter in

how can jw's confess belief in jesus christ when they do not believe in his own words when he speaks of heaven???

jesus compared heaven in many parables, yet the jw's claim that the "new earth" is where they are going.

also, the belief that jesus was here in 1914(?

allelsefails

Welcome to JWN. When I read posts like this I wonder....... Where did Jesus ever say people would go to heaven? Not the phrase "Kingdom of Heaven" but that people would ever go to heaven. The only thing I can think of is in reference to his apostles. He never taught that "all good people would go to heaven" he said "the meek will inherit the Earth". Interesting question. I would like to see your quotes and reasoning.

107

What would Christianity look like without Paul's writings?

by AK - Jeff in

jw
friends

a thowoff from ren's thread obviously.. i am firmly convinced that what is called christianity today - is actually just pauline theology.. if you removed all the portions of the nt that are attributed to paul, and actually accepted as primary the words of jesus and his direct followers - the worldwide movement would look far different doctrinally.

and as far as the fundy's go - they would be lost without the deep judgmentalism and rules oriented thinking of this writer [whomever he really was].. if ren's thread could go 15 pages and counting - why not this one?.

thoughts?.

allelsefails

"The bible" is not a book. It cannot be examined and accepted or rejected. "The Bible" is a library with 66 books in it. (Unless yours has more or less - which many do.)Each of those 66 books must stand or fail on its own merit. For me I see the synoptic Gospels having great value, John less so - written much later and out of joint with the other 3. Acts - good history, but inspired... not so much. The other books Again interesting insight into Early Christianity, but none of them claim inspiration so I don't need to attribute it to them. Hebrews - Not written by Paul - doesn't claim to be - why do we need to add to the scriptures - they are what they are. ........ When ALLelseFAILS just read the thing don't interpret it.

280

Jesus.....God or God's son?

by digderidoo in

following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.

i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?

consider these two scriptures:.

allelsefails

The relationship between the Father and Son does not need to be inferred or figured out thru analysis of language. (If any bible writer heard the phrase "ontological equality with funtional subordination" - they would pass out) The relationship is Father and Son. The Father gives life and power and position to the Son. The Son should be worshipped, prayed to, obeyed - Because the Father said so, not because his inherited nature demand it. Don't get me wrong Jesus is the same nature as God. "The son of a duck is a duck" but they are not the same duck. Trinitarians use scripture after scripture to show the Father gives to the Son his name, authority, etc.. Why add to this some Platonic view of there nature - the scriptures explain it clearly Without diminishing Jesus to an Angel like the WTS.

280

Jesus.....God or God's son?

by digderidoo in

following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.

i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?

consider these two scriptures:.

allelsefails

I will never intentionally support the side where Spike and Reniaa are, but ... I kind of do here. I Cor 8:6 - God = Father, Lord = Christ, Spirit = not mentioned. I do believe that JWs express Jesus position in much diminished way to what it should be. Jesus is Divine. The most accurate translation of John 1:1 is not "the Word was a God" or "the Word was God" It is "the Word was of the same nature as God". I totally agree with this. Jesus should be prayed to. He has been GIVEN all authority on earth and in heaven. That is the Father gave it to him. It did NOT belong to him before ressurection by Father/God. Thus the illustrative language of Father and Son. Father is the life giver Son is the life receiver. I do believe the "nature of God" is in the Son. Again that is the only way to understand the relationship - my son is by nature my genetic code - he is me, but uniquely different. He has a different position and personality than me, but he is not "me"....... I the "father" am God. He, my son,(even if he is omnipotent) is the Lord Jesus not the God Jesus (1 COR 8:6) He is subserviant to me. He does my will not his own. He does not know all that I know. (Mark 13:32 - International Standard Version - "No one knows when that day or hour will come-not the angels in heaven, not the Son, but only the Father.)Yes my son has the potential of me (Father = God), But not the position of me (Father = God).

280

Jesus.....God or God's son?

by digderidoo in

following on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.

i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?

consider these two scriptures:.

allelsefails

Spike - Nothing irreverent in Wow and Amazing. YOUR religion teaches that "Oh my God!" is inappropriate...... The point Possible made is that "My God" was not a phrase Jews used for "amazing" or "wow" the way we do in English. They respected the phrase "my God" more than we do today.

83

Do You Consider yourself an Atheist / Agnostic / or Christian? Reasons ?

by flipper in

jw
friends

after having been raised in the jehovah's witnesses for 44 years ( getting out 6 years ago ) i have now come to peace with my view of what i personally feel about the existence of god , or no god, or whatever is flying around up there in outer space.

i am basically agnostic for sure / perhaps leaning atheist and i've come to that decision based on the years and years of unfulfilled false promises of being in a mind control cult ( jehovah's witnesses ) claiming to represent an alleged " god " or " jehovah " saying there would be a paradise, and armageddon to destroy 99% of the earths population.

also- i enjoy helping others without thought of being rewarded for it.

allelsefails

504deist - kinda stole my thunder. I think I'm more a "deist" than any other definition. However I lean more toward "Christian" in that I believe (like Ghandi did) that if everyone were to follow Jesus teachings in the sermon on the mount the world would be an awesome place. I believe that Jesus the man lived, but not Jesus the "God". Has "God" ever revealed himself to man...... I don't know. I think it is likely that our God "touches" us in some way. That some are more sensitive to this "touching" Moses, Jesus, Mohammed. It does not mean they wrote the infallible word of God, but they may have something important to share.

21

Hello my name is Olga

by JimmyPage in

jw
friends

hello my name is olga.

i first learned the truth from c.t.

russell.

allelsefails

WTF!

19

Question for JW Lurkers: Did Jesus Pray Using the Name "Jehovah"?

by cabasilas in

a listing of prayers by jesus in the new testament can be found at this site:.

http://www.praylikethis.org.uk/theprayersofjesus.html.

(i can't say that the list is exhaustive, but i think it is at least representative.).

allelsefails

I do realize it was an "Off the point arguement" - Jesus' failure to mention any "name" in is prayers is certainly a signifigant thought. What do you think a "Stawman arguement" is? I'm certainly not taking it personally. LOL! Just curious as to your thinking. I was making a side point - not refuting the poster's conclusions. I agree Jesus doesn't use any divine name in his prayers. Mabe I was not clear on my intent.

19

Question for JW Lurkers: Did Jesus Pray Using the Name "Jehovah"?

by cabasilas in

a listing of prayers by jesus in the new testament can be found at this site:.

http://www.praylikethis.org.uk/theprayersofjesus.html.

(i can't say that the list is exhaustive, but i think it is at least representative.).

allelsefails

Better daze - You seem to reflect the gnostic ideas of the creator God YHWH - a haughty spirit who is Jealous because he knows there are others greater than he. And the Jesus explained "Father" who is the source of all - a very different God than YHWH. Something I've been studying recently. The Macionites believed the same way. Marcion put the first list of Christian "scriptures" together around 150 AD. He believed in a Christianity with no ties to the Jewish God YHWH.

19

Question for JW Lurkers: Did Jesus Pray Using the Name "Jehovah"?

by cabasilas in

a listing of prayers by jesus in the new testament can be found at this site:.

http://www.praylikethis.org.uk/theprayersofjesus.html.

(i can't say that the list is exhaustive, but i think it is at least representative.).

allelsefails

I hope you don't think I was making a stawman arguement? I could give rat's a**. I think the English language is a mess. Obviously the "J" existed in the fourteenth century, but not in any language before that time. Everything with a J is a mistake in pronunciation! New languages are always "mistakes" compared to the original. ..........

If there is a God with a name ..... Yahweh, Jehovah. So what? That's my point. I think the whole Jehovah issue is a stawman arguement. The fact that Jesus didn't use any name in his prayers to The Father I think is a relevant scriptural thought though.