It is ridiculous to think a child can make an informed decision on a religious or medical matter. The question is where does the Superior Authority have the right to protect a child? If you were being abused by your parent, but they said it was a "religious" obligation for them abuse you - should the Government step in? Absolutely! This is a matter where the life of a child is involved. Even if you're a JW you should not fight the court order for a transfusion. You should recognize that the "Superior Autority" has the right to make decisions you don't agree with. When I was a JW I would not have given permission, but I never would have fought the blood trans either.
allelsefails
JoinedPosts by allelsefails
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168
Supreme Court Blood Case - WTS LOSES
by skeeter1 inhttp://scc.lexum.umontreal.ca/en/2009/2009scc30/2009scc30.html.
supreme court of canada.
wts loses!.
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280
Jesus.....God or God's son?
by digderidoo infollowing on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.
i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?
consider these two scriptures:.
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allelsefails
MDB - awesome long post - I couldn't even read it all I was laughing so hard. I am not a trinitarian, but I don't use nonsense info to support me. .............. Spike - The word for "worship" Jehovah and "bow down" to Jesus are the same Greek word (prokenau) in the same context. Your religion worshipped Jesus until 1954! If it is so clear that you shouldn't I would think the FDS would get clued in within 60 years! ...................... Ren - JWs demean Jesus when they say their instructions come from Jehovah. Jesus is the head of the congregation. He has been given the right to rule it as he sees fit. He is the Judge of life and death - not Jehovah. Jesus said we witness about ..... Jesus! He is our Eternal Father our Mighty God. Jesus was the creator in that the physical universe was created thru him and for him. The JWs often use the illustration of an apprentice for Jesus in heaven. If an apprentice makes a sword under the direction of the "Master" the apprentce physically in real way created the sword himself. Jesus is The Only Begotten SON of God - yes he can act as an angel like Moses or any other Bible writer, but he is much more than that. Jesus is the same Nature as the Father. That means he is a God - Omniscient , Omnipotent ... etc.
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What would Christianity look like without Paul's writings?
by AK - Jeff ina thowoff from ren's thread obviously.. i am firmly convinced that what is called christianity today - is actually just pauline theology.. if you removed all the portions of the nt that are attributed to paul, and actually accepted as primary the words of jesus and his direct followers - the worldwide movement would look far different doctrinally.
and as far as the fundy's go - they would be lost without the deep judgmentalism and rules oriented thinking of this writer [whomever he really was].. if ren's thread could go 15 pages and counting - why not this one?.
thoughts?.
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allelsefails
Reniaa wrote - You guys may not like the paul letters but I just was checking the revelations as part of the canon and one thing that came up is how early the confirmation on the Paul letters was, they were always completely accepted as canon by literally everyone. They also have very early dates on them. Reniaa ..........................................
You're right the earliest Scripture list by the Heretic Marcion in c.150 C.E. includes all Paul's letters (including the letter to the Laodiceans) and Luke edited by Marcion. (No other books of course) Not one quote by an actual "Christian" shows Paul's works were considered "scripture" until c. 180. Yes Paul was quoted from in the earliest times of the church - that is Clement of Rome. But many books were accepted and quoted from as much as Paul's writings and before James, Jude, Revelation, 2 Peter, 2 John, 3 John. Take those out and put in Hermas, Barnabas, and 1 Clement and see how different your doctrine is. DOn't use evidence you're not willing to apply to your own beliefs. ..........................
The only defense of the "Bible" is that God must have directed the selection of books NO objective study would allow the 27 books of the Greek/NT scriptures in.
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HOW DO JW'S CONSIDER THEMSELVES CHRISTIANS WHEN THEY DON'T ADHERE TO HIS TEACHINGS IN BIBLE?
by Divawriter inhow can jw's confess belief in jesus christ when they do not believe in his own words when he speaks of heaven???
jesus compared heaven in many parables, yet the jw's claim that the "new earth" is where they are going.
also, the belief that jesus was here in 1914(?
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allelsefails
Welcome to JWN. When I read posts like this I wonder....... Where did Jesus ever say people would go to heaven? Not the phrase "Kingdom of Heaven" but that people would ever go to heaven. The only thing I can think of is in reference to his apostles. He never taught that "all good people would go to heaven" he said "the meek will inherit the Earth". Interesting question. I would like to see your quotes and reasoning.
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107
What would Christianity look like without Paul's writings?
by AK - Jeff ina thowoff from ren's thread obviously.. i am firmly convinced that what is called christianity today - is actually just pauline theology.. if you removed all the portions of the nt that are attributed to paul, and actually accepted as primary the words of jesus and his direct followers - the worldwide movement would look far different doctrinally.
and as far as the fundy's go - they would be lost without the deep judgmentalism and rules oriented thinking of this writer [whomever he really was].. if ren's thread could go 15 pages and counting - why not this one?.
thoughts?.
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allelsefails
"The bible" is not a book. It cannot be examined and accepted or rejected. "The Bible" is a library with 66 books in it. (Unless yours has more or less - which many do.)Each of those 66 books must stand or fail on its own merit. For me I see the synoptic Gospels having great value, John less so - written much later and out of joint with the other 3. Acts - good history, but inspired... not so much. The other books Again interesting insight into Early Christianity, but none of them claim inspiration so I don't need to attribute it to them. Hebrews - Not written by Paul - doesn't claim to be - why do we need to add to the scriptures - they are what they are. ........ When ALLelseFAILS just read the thing don't interpret it.
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280
Jesus.....God or God's son?
by digderidoo infollowing on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.
i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?
consider these two scriptures:.
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allelsefails
The relationship between the Father and Son does not need to be inferred or figured out thru analysis of language. (If any bible writer heard the phrase "ontological equality with funtional subordination" - they would pass out) The relationship is Father and Son. The Father gives life and power and position to the Son. The Son should be worshipped, prayed to, obeyed - Because the Father said so, not because his inherited nature demand it. Don't get me wrong Jesus is the same nature as God. "The son of a duck is a duck" but they are not the same duck. Trinitarians use scripture after scripture to show the Father gives to the Son his name, authority, etc.. Why add to this some Platonic view of there nature - the scriptures explain it clearly Without diminishing Jesus to an Angel like the WTS.
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280
Jesus.....God or God's son?
by digderidoo infollowing on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.
i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?
consider these two scriptures:.
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allelsefails
I will never intentionally support the side where Spike and Reniaa are, but ... I kind of do here. I Cor 8:6 - God = Father, Lord = Christ, Spirit = not mentioned. I do believe that JWs express Jesus position in much diminished way to what it should be. Jesus is Divine. The most accurate translation of John 1:1 is not "the Word was a God" or "the Word was God" It is "the Word was of the same nature as God". I totally agree with this. Jesus should be prayed to. He has been GIVEN all authority on earth and in heaven. That is the Father gave it to him. It did NOT belong to him before ressurection by Father/God. Thus the illustrative language of Father and Son. Father is the life giver Son is the life receiver. I do believe the "nature of God" is in the Son. Again that is the only way to understand the relationship - my son is by nature my genetic code - he is me, but uniquely different. He has a different position and personality than me, but he is not "me"....... I the "father" am God. He, my son,(even if he is omnipotent) is the Lord Jesus not the God Jesus (1 COR 8:6) He is subserviant to me. He does my will not his own. He does not know all that I know. (Mark 13:32 - International Standard Version - "No one knows when that day or hour will come-not the angels in heaven, not the Son, but only the Father.)Yes my son has the potential of me (Father = God), But not the position of me (Father = God).
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280
Jesus.....God or God's son?
by digderidoo infollowing on from a post of sacolton's on a recent thread.
i hope he doesn't mind me cutting and pasting it as i want to examine it.. was jesus our god?
consider these two scriptures:.
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allelsefails
Spike - Nothing irreverent in Wow and Amazing. YOUR religion teaches that "Oh my God!" is inappropriate...... The point Possible made is that "My God" was not a phrase Jews used for "amazing" or "wow" the way we do in English. They respected the phrase "my God" more than we do today.
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Do You Consider yourself an Atheist / Agnostic / or Christian? Reasons ?
by flipper inafter having been raised in the jehovah's witnesses for 44 years ( getting out 6 years ago ) i have now come to peace with my view of what i personally feel about the existence of god , or no god, or whatever is flying around up there in outer space.
i am basically agnostic for sure / perhaps leaning atheist and i've come to that decision based on the years and years of unfulfilled false promises of being in a mind control cult ( jehovah's witnesses ) claiming to represent an alleged " god " or " jehovah " saying there would be a paradise, and armageddon to destroy 99% of the earths population.
also- i enjoy helping others without thought of being rewarded for it.
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allelsefails
504deist - kinda stole my thunder. I think I'm more a "deist" than any other definition. However I lean more toward "Christian" in that I believe (like Ghandi did) that if everyone were to follow Jesus teachings in the sermon on the mount the world would be an awesome place. I believe that Jesus the man lived, but not Jesus the "God". Has "God" ever revealed himself to man...... I don't know. I think it is likely that our God "touches" us in some way. That some are more sensitive to this "touching" Moses, Jesus, Mohammed. It does not mean they wrote the infallible word of God, but they may have something important to share.
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Hello my name is Olga
by JimmyPage inhello my name is olga.
i first learned the truth from c.t.
russell.
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allelsefails
WTF!