Those would be logical leaps. I am only referring to the atheist/creationist issue. I might think all religious people have it wrong. All organizations have it wrong. But if I worship God in a way that might be acceptable to him, then I still have the 1/10,000 chance of being right and having an after life. The atheist has only a 1/10,000 chance of being wrong, but if he is right he ends up the same as if I'm wrong. So we both have a 99.999% chance of ending up in the same place, yeah? At least I have the 1/10,000 chance of something more. ideas about christian God or denominations might make the odds longer, but the logic is the same. (I know better than to think belief is more logical, but I still like my odds.) PS - It is great to have a debate with someone who THINKS. I'm so used to JWs regurgitating the WTS it is truly refreshing. I love the Atheist begging for mercy at the pearly gates - I'd give him a 50% chance.
allelsefails
JoinedPosts by allelsefails
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67
My Weak Agnostic Testimony
by besty inin terms of faith i have decided to give the invisible characters a rest for the time being.
the last set i had weren't really adding any value, and right now i'm happy with more rational answers to life's mysteries.. in my opinion religion was an early attempt to answer these mysteries and so inevitably we are accelerating towards a post-religious world.
when technology allows us to extend our lives as long as we wish, the need for salvation via invisible magic diminishes.it seems to me that religion is deeply influenced by parental authority and cultural norms.
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67
My Weak Agnostic Testimony
by besty inin terms of faith i have decided to give the invisible characters a rest for the time being.
the last set i had weren't really adding any value, and right now i'm happy with more rational answers to life's mysteries.. in my opinion religion was an early attempt to answer these mysteries and so inevitably we are accelerating towards a post-religious world.
when technology allows us to extend our lives as long as we wish, the need for salvation via invisible magic diminishes.it seems to me that religion is deeply influenced by parental authority and cultural norms.
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allelsefails
To me the point of "If I'm wrong" I lose nothing is compelling. It is more like having a free chip and placing it on the 10,000/1 shot in the big race. You have nothing to lose, but everything to gain. However the point swings the other way when you talk about a high control group like JW's. If your "belief in God" causes you to make horrible decisions and waste huge portions of your life on fruitless activity then better the rational atheist life. But if your belief in God leads you to a life of love your neighbor as yourself and a pursuit of an altruistic lifestyle that brings you joy then there is nothing to lose. Prayer to a God who doesn't listen still has psychological benefits to the one praying. Belonging to a community of believers or church still has benefits if God is left out entirely. Again I lose nothing if I'm wrong, but gain everything if I'm right. Maybe .... agnostic believer - allelsefails
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67
My Weak Agnostic Testimony
by besty inin terms of faith i have decided to give the invisible characters a rest for the time being.
the last set i had weren't really adding any value, and right now i'm happy with more rational answers to life's mysteries.. in my opinion religion was an early attempt to answer these mysteries and so inevitably we are accelerating towards a post-religious world.
when technology allows us to extend our lives as long as we wish, the need for salvation via invisible magic diminishes.it seems to me that religion is deeply influenced by parental authority and cultural norms.
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allelsefails
For me I would change Pascal's Wager a little. It goes like this. If you're right - there is no God and we end at death. If you're wrong - there is a God and you end at death. (I don't believe in a fiery-torment God)If I'm right - there is a God and we have a chance at future life after death. If I'm wrong - there is no God and we end at death. The reason my balls are gone too is that Pascal's Wager allows you to be an agnostic believer. I can't prove it, but I'll act like God exists - why not? You only get one hand, but you can keep drawing cards until you die. (I'm still trying to draw into an inside straight.) Love your thoughts. Thanks. Allelsefails
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Who likes Battlestar Galactica?
by Dogpatch inbattlestar galactica is one of my most favorite of all tv shows, too bad it is over.
never watched the first series, but the new one is great.
mostly for the character development and the ethics issues it raises and addresses.
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allelsefails
Love it. Compelling characters. Stirring storylines. Not good guys versus bad guys - just guys. Some strong, some weak, none perfect. Sounds like .... life yeah?
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67
My Weak Agnostic Testimony
by besty inin terms of faith i have decided to give the invisible characters a rest for the time being.
the last set i had weren't really adding any value, and right now i'm happy with more rational answers to life's mysteries.. in my opinion religion was an early attempt to answer these mysteries and so inevitably we are accelerating towards a post-religious world.
when technology allows us to extend our lives as long as we wish, the need for salvation via invisible magic diminishes.it seems to me that religion is deeply influenced by parental authority and cultural norms.
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allelsefails
Stephen Colbert says "An agnostic is just an atheist without any balls." (sorry couldn't resist) I do look at the existence of man as evidence of God. Evidence - not proof. I think evolution explains so much of the natural world ..... and then Humans come along. The spark of life - that made that first cell replicate and the "evolution" of true consciousness and conscience make it difficult for me to accept the purely "rational" explanation of our world and our true selves. Like Pascal's Wager. I can't prove God exists, but Im going to bet on it because I have nothing to lose. (I guess that means my balls are gone too right?) allelsefails
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70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
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allelsefails
This was an awesome thread. I think it is funny how "scholar JW" answers questions the way the WTS does - ignoring things he can't actually answer and focusing on things where he is on more solid footing. Funny how Josephus is absolutely accurate when he says 70 years, but probably a scribes error that out in 50 years. Circular reasoning at its best. I think it is funny that the WTS hasn't tried to prove anything about the debate of 607/586 in any literature since 1981. Only people who read the "apostate" sites are even trying, the WTS gave up a long time ago. There is no scriptural evidence connecting Nebs 7 years of insanity with the "Gentile Times". Just like all ridiculous time prophecy - it only works if you "have faith" in the man first. Like all braindead peoples - Scientology, Mormons, radical Muslims, radical Christians - have faith in the prophet and denegrate people who disagree. Where is the scripture? Allelsefails
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Need help: JW friend links every NT teaching to 144,000 only
by whyizit inyou know what i mean: every time she reads a passage in the nt, she instantly applies it to the 144,000 chosen anointed ones.
even though there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to make that connection.
i have even asked how her gurus have made that connection biblically.
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allelsefails
diademadonai81 - Message me with an e-mail address and I can send the word doc. Or I can copy it into a message on the board, but the formatting gets screwed up when I do that. Either way is fine. PS - I saw this is your first post. You can send private messages by clicking on the persons name to see their info screen and then click on "send message". The top right corner of your screen there is a little envelope that you can click on to get messages that have been sent to you. Would love to share the research I've done.
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Was a GB memeber deleted for molestation?
by Albert Einstein insome time ago, i read on the internet, that in late 70s there was a gb member (his name should be leo greenslee) who was accused of molestation of a little boy - son of a witness family.
after this was revealed, he was supposed to be removed from bethel to serve as a special pioneer out of new york and have died in 80s.. have you heard about it?.
albert.
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allelsefails
Thanks jeandeau for the point. Sorry to put Ray Franz in with the other 2. just making a point about the GB and the things they don't want to talk about. Ray Franz has shown incredible personal strength and courage. Only admiration for him.
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POLL Do you think the average JW is happy?
by aSphereisnotaCircle in.
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i noticed on another thread a poster stating that he felt that unhappy jw's were in the minority.. .
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allelsefails
Ignorance is bliss. A child is happy beieving in Santa Clause, Easter Bunny, and the tooth fairy. Believing that your parents are omnipotent and wonderful and can do no wrong. This is the state that most JWs are in - absolute ignorance. They study and study and read and read only things that reassure their own world view. As long as they stay children in their minds they stay happy, any attempt at true maturity of thought and reasoning leads to troubling ideas and a loss of identity. It becomes a matter of willful ignorance to protect their make-believe world.
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70 years = 607?
by allelsefails in70 years of captivity?.
i myself have always believed that when archaeology disagreed with the bible the bible must be right.
that is how i dismissed the idea that jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 bce.
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allelsefails
Thanks for all the posts. Lots of good research. I'll search the old posts. I do think it is worth trying with many witnesses. For me the 607/586 debate started all my "real research". It opened my eyes and allowed me to have an honest look at myself. The whole concept of types in the Hebrew scriptures = something bigger later on is pretty silly. Many things pointed forward to the Christ and his roles of mediator, high priest, sacrifice, etc..., but I don't see any others. Certainly not There are a lot red herrings in WT dogma. I'm trying to do some research to boil some of these down to one key point where the logic fails. Trying to eliminate the need for endless debates on archaeology or understanding a Hebrew or Greek word. The last paragraph of this post is my attempt to do this. Just ask the one right question that can replace the lie with a logical rejection of it. Thanks again - allelsefails